few questions a for a first timer

[koniowsky717]

Iv been trying to find answers to probably the easiest questions, but either get half answers or 5 different answers to the same questions. so here it goes..

my recipe is going to be-

-16lbs honey
-10g 71b-1122
-12.5g go-ferm
-? fermaid k

going after 5gals with SG of 1.115

-how much fermaid K should be added during primary, and how often should it be added?
-what is a 1/3 break?
-what gravity should i be looking for when its ready for secondary?(how many weeks in primary roughly)
-best way to know its ready for bottling during secondary
- how long should i keep stirring after all fermaid k is added?

greatly appreciated to whoever answers these for me lol

 

[mredge73]

I don't really have an answer on how much nutrients to add, I have seen everything from 1 tsp to 1 tbsp. The manufacture may be able to give you a little guidance.

As far as moving to secondary; it needs close to or below 1.0 FG. Shouldn't take any longer than 3 weeks and can go as fast as 10 days.
It can sit in the secondary from 6 months to a year; once the harsh taste starts to mellow out it should be time to move on to bottling.

As far as stirring; you don't really need to at all as the yeast will find it. If you must do your best to avoid adding any O2 after the first day or so; be gentle and no splashing past this point.
Because you are allowing it to sit in secondary for an extended period of time; degassing is also unnecessary.

 

[koniowsky717]

I don't really have an answer on how much nutrients to add, I have seen everything from 1 tsp to 1 tbsp. The manufacture may be able to give you a little guidance.

As far as moving to secondary; it needs close to or below 1.0 FG. Shouldn't take any longer than 3 weeks and can go as fast as 10 days.
It can sit in the secondary from 6 months to a year; once the harsh taste starts to mellow out it should be time to move on to bottling.

As far as stirring; you don't really need to at all as the yeast will find it. If you must do your best to avoid adding any O2 after the first day or so; be gentle and no splashing past this point.
Because you are allowing it to sit in secondary for an extended period of time; degassing is also unnecessary.

Ok,so basically dont worry about stirring except when adding nutrients?
and im looking at at least 6months in secondary?

 

[Bombo80]

So I just recently went through this. Your recipe looks like a traditional mead, with no other flavoring items added to the must. You should do a bit of research on SNA (Staggered Nutrient Additions). I found most of that within the mead forum here or on Got Mead. Follow the instructions to re-hydrate the yeast. I would even suggest getting a starter going a day or two prior to brew day. I used D47 yeast, and it took several days before I had enough cells to have a good fermentation going.

Once your fermentation is going is when you do your SNA, once daily, and de-gas/aerate twice daily, until you get to the 1/3 sugar break. The 1/3 sugar break is pretty much what it sounds like, the yeast have consumed 1/3 of the sugar. Up to that point the yeast will use, and need, O2. So, with your SG around 1.115 (27 Brix), the 1/3 sugar break would be about 1.074 (18 Brix). Between the 1/3 and 2/3 sugar break, you will gently de-gas once, or twice, a day. This will help purge any CO2 caught in solution. At this point CO2 can stall the fermentation. 2/3 sugar break would be 1.036 (9 Brix). Are you seeing the correlation here ?

This seems like a lot of work, but you are trying to end up with a nice and very drinkable mead. I was a bit overwhelmed myself, and I have been doing meads for 15 plus years. I didn't even know what SNA was back then. Goferm, Fermaid K, maybe even get some DAP. Some places have all of them, some don't.

Once you have reached the 2/3 sugar break, leave it alone. Check the gravity in a week, if it is close to 1.000, rack it into your secondary.

I did a peach mead, and it has been about 6 weeks in the secondary, and I am close to racking again, to get it off the peach puree.

A little planning, a bit of patience, and some research, and you end up with a very good mead. 16 pounds of honey ain't cheap !!!

Rock on boys !! :rockin:

 

[koniowsky717]

So I just recently went through this. Your recipe looks like a traditional mead, with no other flavoring items added to the must. You should do a bit of research on SNA (Staggered Nutrient Additions). I found most of that within the mead forum here or on Got Mead. Follow the instructions to re-hydrate the yeast. I would even suggest getting a starter going a day or two prior to brew day. I used D47 yeast, and it took several days before I had enough cells to have a good fermentation going.

Once your fermentation is going is when you do your SNA, once daily, and de-gas/aerate twice daily, until you get to the 1/3 sugar break. The 1/3 sugar break is pretty much what it sounds like, the yeast have consumed 1/3 of the sugar. Up to that point the yeast will use, and need, O2. So, with your SG around 1.115 (27 Brix), the 1/3 sugar break would be about 1.074 (18 Brix). Between the 1/3 and 2/3 sugar break, you will gently de-gas once, or twice, a day. This will help purge any CO2 caught in solution. At this point CO2 can stall the fermentation. 2/3 sugar break would be 1.036 (9 Brix). Are you seeing the correlation here ?

This seems like a lot of work, but you are trying to end up with a nice and very drinkable mead. I was a bit overwhelmed myself, and I have been doing meads for 15 plus years. I didn't even know what SNA was back then. Goferm, Fermaid K, maybe even get some DAP. Some places have all of them, some don't.

Once you have reached the 2/3 sugar break, leave it alone. Check the gravity in a week, if it is close to 1.000, rack it into your secondary.

I did a peach mead, and it has been about 6 weeks in the secondary, and I am close to racking again, to get it off the peach puree.

A little planning, a bit of patience, and some research, and you end up with a very good mead. 16 pounds of honey ain't cheap !!!

Rock on boys !! :rockin:

YES! this is exactly what i was looking for.. im def gonna do some reseach on SNA, i found a pretty nice detailed video on youtube for re-hydrating with goferm, by a viking brewing buy.. however i have one more question for you.. if i was to test the gravity everyday by putting it in a test tube then tossing it, i feel like i would be wasting alot of mead. at least enough to leave more headspace than i want in secondary. how often would you recommend testing gravity for 1/3 and 2/3 break? and what other indication could i be looking for besides it just taste right to take it off secondary and bottle it?

 

[koniowsky717]

So I just recently went through this. Your recipe looks like a traditional mead, with no other flavoring items added to the must. You should do a bit of research on SNA (Staggered Nutrient Additions). I found most of that within the mead forum here or on Got Mead. Follow the instructions to re-hydrate the yeast. I would even suggest getting a starter going a day or two prior to brew day. I used D47 yeast, and it took several days before I had enough cells to have a good fermentation going.

Once your fermentation is going is when you do your SNA, once daily, and de-gas/aerate twice daily, until you get to the 1/3 sugar break. The 1/3 sugar break is pretty much what it sounds like, the yeast have consumed 1/3 of the sugar. Up to that point the yeast will use, and need, O2. So, with your SG around 1.115 (27 Brix), the 1/3 sugar break would be about 1.074 (18 Brix). Between the 1/3 and 2/3 sugar break, you will gently de-gas once, or twice, a day. This will help purge any CO2 caught in solution. At this point CO2 can stall the fermentation. 2/3 sugar break would be 1.036 (9 Brix). Are you seeing the correlation here ?

This seems like a lot of work, but you are trying to end up with a nice and very drinkable mead. I was a bit overwhelmed myself, and I have been doing meads for 15 plus years. I didn't even know what SNA was back then. Goferm, Fermaid K, maybe even get some DAP. Some places have all of them, some don't.

Once you have reached the 2/3 sugar break, leave it alone. Check the gravity in a week, if it is close to 1.000, rack it into your secondary.

I did a peach mead, and it has been about 6 weeks in the secondary, and I am close to racking again, to get it off the peach puree.

A little planning, a bit of patience, and some research, and you end up with a very good mead. 16 pounds of honey ain't cheap !!!

Rock on boys !! :rockin:

this is exacly what i was looking form thank you.. I am def going to do more research on SNA (plan on fermenting this sunday) and i found a nice video on youtube for re-hydrating yeast. However, i feel like if i tested for gravity everyday i would be wasting alot of mead, enough to give me more headspace than i want in secondary.how often would you recommend testing for the 1/3 and 2/3 break? and what other indication should i be looking for besides it just taste right, to take it off secondary and bottle?

-also, i plan to aerate with a spoon stirring, gently at first, till it stops making foam. after 1/3 and im just degassing, would i be best off just leaving the lid and airlock on and just swirling the bucket around?

-sorry for duplicate, i thought i lost the first post

 

[Bombo80]

For primary fermentation I am using a standard brew bucket. This gives me plenty of room to work in. As far as measuring gravity, I would watch how the fermentation is going. AKA - how many airlock bubbles per minute. If it is going strong, I would check it on day 3 or 4. I usually put on rubber gloves and starsan everything. The turkey baster, hydrometer and hydrometer tube, take the measurement, and dump the sample back into the mead. I've done this for many years and never have had any problems. You are going to be in there anyway, aerating, degassing or doing your SNA. So taking a quick measurement should be nothing.
After the 1/3 sugar break, all you are doing is a gentle de-gas stir. Still, taking a quick measurement should be nothing. You could just swirl the bucket, but I like to see what is happening. You will be able to tell when doing the de-gas is not necessary anymore. But once you reach the 2/3 sugar break, leave it alone. No more stirring. Rack to secondary in a week or two from then. Watch how much lees are building up.
I secondary in the glass carboys. I have many different sizes, depending on the volume of the batch I am making. Once it is in the secondary, it's all up to you and your preferences. I will leave mine set for a few months to clarify and age. I don't use any chemicals to inhibit any more yeast activity. So time is your ally. I have about 2 1/2 gallons of dark clover mead that has been bulk aging for several years. I got tired of keeping the airlocks filled, so at some point I just put a sanitized solid bung in the carboy, put it in a box and put an empty box of wine bottles on top, just to make sure it would stay in.
I hope this helps with your questions.

 

[koniowsky717]

For primary fermentation I am using a standard brew bucket. This gives me plenty of room to work in. As far as measuring gravity, I would watch how the fermentation is going. AKA - how many airlock bubbles per minute. If it is going strong, I would check it on day 3 or 4. I usually put on rubber gloves and starsan everything. The turkey baster, hydrometer and hydrometer tube, take the measurement, and dump the sample back into the mead. I've done this for many years and never have had any problems. You are going to be in there anyway, aerating, degassing or doing your SNA. So taking a quick measurement should be nothing.
After the 1/3 sugar break, all you are doing is a gentle de-gas stir. Still, taking a quick measurement should be nothing. You could just swirl the bucket, but I like to see what is happening. You will be able to tell when doing the de-gas is not necessary anymore. But once you reach the 2/3 sugar break, leave it alone. No more stirring. Rack to secondary in a week or two from then. Watch how much lees are building up.
I secondary in the glass carboys. I have many different sizes, depending on the volume of the batch I am making. Once it is in the secondary, it's all up to you and your preferences. I will leave mine set for a few months to clarify and age. I don't use any chemicals to inhibit any more yeast activity. So time is your ally. I have about 2 1/2 gallons of dark clover mead that has been bulk aging for several years. I got tired of keeping the airlocks filled, so at some point I just put a sanitized solid bung in the carboy, put it in a box and put an empty box of wine bottles on top, just to make sure it would stay in.
I hope this helps with your questions.

Yes all this has been very helpful.. Researching on SNA however, has got me nowhere. Im going to take the advice i got here and start when fermentation starts. But im seeing to add it every day, and then im seeing every 2 days till 1/3 break. I also cant seem to find out how much of fermaid K i need. Im mostly seeing 1g/g so 5g of fermaid K.. But it this 5grams each time i feed, or 5 grams split up between each feed..
and then, do i stir and then just drop the powder in? I saw a youtube video where the guy drops the power in and then stirs, but i heard that was bad.
Once i understand this, i believe i am ready to get this bad boy started

 

[myndflyte]

Just as a disclaimer, I've never made traditional mead. Currently making a cyser that took a lot of tinkering to finally get fermenting (ended up having to make a starter of new yeast), and added all my nutrients at the beginning. I think you're starting to really over-think the process. Decide what works for you. Are you able to add nutrients everyday or does every other day fit your schedule better? I'm guessing one way over the other isn't going to drastically change your mead but it'll chug along happily as long as you keep adding nutrients.

As for checking the gravity. The turkey baster thing works but it's a PITA. My suggestion, get a wine thief. Then you just sanitize your thief and hydrometer, drop the hydrometer in the thief, put the thief in deep enough to fill it enough for the hydrometer to float, take your measurement and then you can either collect the sample to taste or just add it back to the fermenter.

 

[koniowsky717]

yea, i know im prob overthinking.. i am under the impression that one small mix-up can cause the final product going from 3 months to a year... or i have no idea what im talking about lol

 

[bernardsmith]

The 2/3 break I think is a little questionable as yeast will not take up nutrients when the ABV reaches 9% (so if your mead was designed to be a wine (12% ABV) then that makes sense but all other things being equal your starting gravity suggests an endpoint of about 15% ABV so an ABV of 10% is where you would be adding the last dose but that dose will be left on the floor.... I generally add all my nutrients once the yeast has ended the lag phase and I feed 'em well. So far they have not complained

 

[mredge73]

I don't think you really need to get too scientific on these nutrients.
I just kinda added a spoonful of DAP every couple of days and they seemed to be happy.

I am not sure if you can overfeed them like a gold fish?

 

[koniowsky717]

I don't think you really need to get too scientific on these nutrients.
I just kinda added a spoonful of DAP every couple of days and they seemed to be happy.

I am not sure if you can overfeed them like a gold fish?

lol i hope not. think im gonna add 5g of fermaid k every other day or so for the first 8 days while stirring. I red you could mix it with DAP, but i guess its better just by itself? i dunno, overthinking again about the.. science

edit - found http://www.meadmaderight.com/tiosna--inorganic-.html... turns out i would only need 10g of fermaid k then spread that out over 4 feedings. i think lol

 

[Maylar]

I don't think you really need to get too scientific on these nutrients.
I just kinda added a spoonful of DAP every couple of days and they seemed to be happy.

I am not sure if you can overfeed them like a gold fish?

Actually you can. As Bernard mentioned yeast will not use DAP after about 9% ABV and any left unused will taste like crap.

 

[koniowsky717]

Actually you can. As Bernard mentioned yeast will not use DAP after about 9% ABV and any left unused will taste like crap.

dang.. could thins be avoided by doing the fermaid-o and doing the recommeding amount i found here?

http://www.meadmakr.com/tosna-2-0/

 

[Maylar]

Yup. That's why folks are switching to organic nitrogen ("O").

 

[koniowsky717]

niice, i just ordered the 71B-112, fermaid-o and go-ferm from amazon, should be here saturday... will update on how this delicious batch of fermented honey turns out

 

[Bombo80]

Here is an excerpt from a document by Steve Piatz and the Homebrewers Association ....

Staggered Nutrient Additions
For the typical 5 gallon batch of mead, the staggered nutrients are 2
teaspoons of diammonium phosphate – DAP (~8 grams) and 1
teaspoon of Fermaid K (~4 grams). We add one quarter of the mixture
initially (with the yeast) and the remainder a quarter at a time. There
are a couple of alternative addition schedules. The first one is
essentially a quarter of the nutrient a day until it is all used up. The
alternative is an addition of a quarter every other day until it is all used.
You can even find a few great mead makers that just add all the
nutrients right along with the yeast. No mater what the nutrient
addition schedule is, the use of nutrients is important since honey has
very little of its own.

On a side note, I personally know Steve, and we have several Mead Makers of the Year within the Homebrew club where I am a member.

 

[Bombo80]

I took this info and rather than mixing it all together, I have a set of small measuring spoons. I used 1/8 tsp of fermaid K, and 1/4 tsp of DAP for my additions, ONCE A DAY. Aerating and de-gassing TWICE a day. Again ONLY until it reached the 1/3 sugar break. After that it was just a gentle stirring to de-gas (releasing of CO2), once a day, until I noticed there were no noticeable bubbles coming out of the mead. Then I left it for another week to ten days, until the airlock activity had pretty much stopped. Then racked to the secondary.

 

[koniowsky717]

I have his complete guide to meadmaking book, great read so far.. however, i was very confused on the first recipe.. it calls for 14lbs of honey to make 5gals with SG of 1.115. I had to have been missing something, because i dont see how thats possible... this confusing led to more research and learning about fermaid-o for nutrients.

 

[Bombo80]

That must have been a typo in his book. From Meadmakr website, 15 pounds for a 5 gallon batch would yield a gravity of 1.105. And I have heard, and read, a pound of honey has 35 point of gravity potential. So 3 pounds per gallon, multiplied by 35 would give you 105 (3 x 35 = 105). So for a gravity of 1.115, you would need just over 16.4 pounds in a 5 gallon batch of mead.
Another thing to think about is not all honey is alike. Some contain more water, and would have a lower gravity potential. But for the most part you can count on 35 points per pound, per gallon of mead.

The nutrients basically help the yeast stay healthy during the fermentation process, and allows them to complete their job of consuming sugar and making alcohol. I made a couple batches without any SNA and the yeast just quit. It sat in the secondary for at least three years, and the gravity never moved. It was about 1.040, if I recall. Very sweet, but not jet fueled full of alcohol. Worked out fantastic blending it with a Hibiscus tea and some lemon juice. That took top honors at a club only meeting/contest.

I also know the local homebrew suppliers have changed the nutrients they carry, or what they are calling them now. Very confusing at times when you can't find what a recipe shows for ingredients.

 

[koniowsky717]

i am finding this forum very helpful in everything i need to calm down the nerves before my first mead batch lol glad, you said that was more than likely a typo, that is basically what sparked my need to go balls deep in research

 

[koniowsky717]

So, i got it going in my fermenter around 330pm yesturday, did not see any bubbles last night, saw it start this morning.. Going to do my first aerate/degas tonight and add the fermaid-o.. However i have a question about cleaning equipment. I know i cleaned everything with a no scent cleaner recommended by my local brewshop. However, i dont think i sprayed starsan in the bowl i used to mix my yeast. Would this cause issues if i cleaned the bowl but did not sanitize?

 

[Maylar]

Usually not. I often use a glass Pyrex mixing cup just washed with hot water and Dawn soap. You don't want anything with scratches where nasties can hide though, so it depends on the condition of your bowl.

 

[koniowsky717]

Ok everything i used was in good shape (no scratches that i could see at least). and also, this white foam that appeared after my vigorous mixing with my drill, which made it really hard to take a hydrometer reading, is normal?

 

[koniowsky717]

I have been aerating with the wine stirrer bit for my powerdrill. did once the first day, took a reading at 1.110, added fermaid-o. aerating twice on day 2, added fermaid-o. today is day 3 and i aerated this morning, plan on doing it again tonight before i add my third pitch of fermaid-o. however, im sitting here thinking about how good it seems to be fermenting, and if i might possibly be at the 1/3 sugar break already. Im going to test tonight and see if i need to aerate again.. My question is, if i did hit it already, and i aerated this morning, did i do any damage to my batch?