Fermenting Temperature Best Practice

[ajolupop]

I need some opinions on best practice fermentation.

Situation: I am fermenting 5 gal of a IIPA (OG 1.097). I did a 1 Liter starter with WLP001 and it has been 24 hours with a huge amount of bubbling and activity (so much so, it blew the airlock 3 times). I would like to ferment it for 5-7 days in primary at 68-70 degrees Fahrenheit (20C).

I have it in a chest freezer in which I converted with an STC-1000. I set the STC to 20 C and put the probe in a small blood lab vial (I work at a hospital) filled with water and taped it to the side of the fermenting bucket. What I am seeing is after the compressor kicks on at 20.5C, the probe temp will rise to about 20.8C before making its way back down and after the compressor shuts off it will go as low as 19.8C. I have an ambient thermometer on top of the FV that will read as low as 9.5C (49.1 F) and as high as 15.1C (59.2 F). Im just worried about the wort getting to low with the ambient reading so low. As I understand it, 5 gal fermenting wort has a larger thermal mass and creates heat as it ferments, so regardless of the “ambient” temp in the freezer the probe will read close to the wort temp? correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I pin my fermenter probes under roughly 4x4" chunks of inch thick flexible closed cell foam scavenged from consumer product cartons, held tight with 2"x2' velcro straps I found at Lowes a few years ago. This provides substantial isolation from the "ambient" air temperature, making things a bit easier on the temperature controller.

It's around 80% of a thermo well without the hassle...

Cheers!

 

[flars]

You will have more accurate temperature control of the fermenting wort if the temp probe is taped to the fermentor, and insulated from the ambient temperature of fermentation chamber.

 

[Brewtah]

5-7 days is short primary. 68-70 degrees is a bit high.

 

[MattyIce]

A week of primary is short for most beers. It is definitely waaaaaay too short for a 1.097 beer. I would want at least a month in primary for a beer like that.

I also agree that 68+ is high for the first week of primary.

 

[jbaysurfer]

5-7 days is short primary. 68-70 degrees is a bit high.

1.097 isn't an IIPA either.

But that last thing aside, exactly this. a 1.097 OG is going to ferment like crazy. You ferment it warm on top of that, and it's going to go insane. Blow off tube from the moment you pitch is what I'd do, and I'd pitch lower, ferment lower, and ratchet up temps at the tail end of fermentation.

Also, I don't think 1L starter was enough yeast, but that's a different topic I guess.

 

[pdxal]

Agreed with Jbaysurfer, 1L starter for that big a beer is way too small, regardless of the temperature. More like 2 packs of yeast and 2.5L starter if the yeast was produced today per Mr. Malty's calculator.

 

[Natdavis777]

+1 on probe taped to the side of the carboy
+1 on 68-70F a bit high for temp

I prefer to ferment on the low end of the spectrum and have yielded great results. 62-64F would be more suitable.

 

[ajolupop]

So i went ahead and dropped the temp down to 19C (66.2F) as per your suggestions. should I have taken the probe out of the small vial of water and taped it straight to the side of the fermenter? The STC read out only fluctuates between 18.6C to 19.8C. but the ambient temp stays near 10C.

1.097 isn't an IIPA either.

But that last thing aside, exactly this. a 1.097 OG is going to ferment like crazy. You ferment it warm on top of that, and it's going to go insane. Blow off tube from the moment you pitch is what I'd do, and I'd pitch lower, ferment lower, and ratchet up temps at the tail end of fermentation.

Also, I don't think 1L starter was enough yeast, but that's a different topic I guess.

Im kinda new but doesn't the Hop amounts make a IIPA?

 

[twistyboy]

For the pitching rate, what was your lag phase?If its under 12 hours its a good indication that you didnt under pitch. Always use this calculator before doing your starter:http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/


The probe should be in the wort, otherwise the ambient temp. will screw with it.

As for the fermantation temp , its a personal preference.You should start at 72 until you see sign if fermentation and ramped it down to 64-68. if you go higher , the yeast gonna develop diferent flavor , but its not recommend here for an iipa. the first 4-6 days is the most important days for ferm. temp.


wait until the hydrometer reading are almost stable until rack to secondary for dry hopping.

 

[jbaysurfer]

So i went ahead and dropped the temp down to 19C (66.2F) as per your suggestions. should I have taken the probe out of the small vial of water and taped it straight to the side of the fermenter? The STC read out only fluctuates between 18.6C to 19.8C. but the ambient temp stays near 10C.


Im kinda new but doesn't the Hop amounts make a IIPA?

Don't mind me. Some folks would call it a triple IPA but that's not technically a BJCP style. It's too high in OG to technically conform to IIPA, but it might have too many hops to conform to American Barleywine (although this style can and should be quite hoppy).

None of that matters though if it's not intended to compete in a BJCP category, and btw, it sounds delicious to me!

Wait, and I have to catch up on the thread, but how is the STC reading 8-9 degrees higher then the ambient temp? That's a red flag. How are you measuring ambient temp?

I would attach it directly to the fermenter because that's the mass that you want to control the temp of. I'd do the trick where I tape it underneath an insulator of foam or something too. Also, I generally pitch below ferment temps and let it free rise to the low end of the range for the first 3-4 days, then I'll let it rise to the high 60s for another week then the low 70s for another week...this is my standard with Ales. Others may have a different take, but that's what's worked for me.

 

[ajolupop]

wait until the hydrometer reading are almost stable until rack to secondary for dry hopping.

As far as the hydrometer reading. I would have to open the primary bucket and use a wine thief to take a hydrometer reading - each time i do that won't it risk exposing the wort to infection and oxidation? what is best practice for taking a reading multiple times until its almost stable?

 

[ajolupop]

Wait, and I have to catch up on the thread, but how is the STC reading 8-9 degrees higher then the ambient temp? That's a red flag. How are you measuring ambient temp?

In the pictures from the original post. I have an ambient thermometer on top of the bucket and I have the probe in a small vial of water taped to the side of the bucket.

I figure the range is from the thermal mass of the wort and the fermentation process creating heat.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

As far as the hydrometer reading. I would have to open the primary bucket and use a wine thief to take a hydrometer reading - each time i do that won't it risk exposing the wort to infection and oxidation? what is best practice for taking a reading multiple times until its almost stable?

Just let it sit and try to forget about it (not easy) Even if the gravity stabilizes the beer is still green and will be undrinkable.By the time its no longer a green beer and ready to drink your gravity will surely be stable.Therefore theres really no need to check anything besides curiosity.

for what its worth I have a hefe bubbling away right now in my dining room,no temp control.Room temp is about 63.I pulled the airlock and put a 12" temp probe in.The inside temp was 68.I moved it to the edge,the middle ETC and so no major differences. So around 5 deg difference from inside to air temp at what I believe is hight of fermentation.

 

[solbes]

As for the fermantation temp , its a personal preference.You should start at 72 until you see sign if fermentation and ramped it down to 64-68. if you go higher , the yeast gonna develop diferent flavor , but its not recommend here for an iipa. the first 4-6 days is the most important days for ferm. temp.
.

Everyone does it different, but I intentionally raise the temp for my yeastie friends not drop them. So that means I have the yeast in the fridge prior to brewing. I chill the wort down to 2-3 degrees below where I want fermentation to start prior to pitching(which is usually 1-2 degrees from bottom end of yeasts working range). Then control the fermentation temp 2-3 degrees higher than pitching temps. Then start to ramp up the temps 48 hours after pitching. Giving it a very slow ramp keeps the yeast chugging along. Giving it a little faster ramp can encourage esters (desired in some of my brews).

72 is too high for pitching IMO. You don't need a high initial fermenation temp if you have enough healthy yeast in the pitch. The number of cells along with slowly warming them encourages very short lag times with minimal byproducts to clean up.

As to my temp controller probe, I tape it to the side of my fermenter underneath a folded up paper towel for insulation from ambient air. Thermowell would be cool, but haven't gone that far yet.

 

[masaba]

72 is too high for pitching IMO. You don't need a high initial fermenation temp if you have enough healthy yeast in the pitch. The number of cells along with slowly warming them encourages very short lag times with minimal byproducts to clean up.

As to my temp controller probe, I tape it to the side of my fermenter underneath a folded up paper towel for insulation from ambient air. Thermowell would be cool, but haven't gone that far yet.

Pitching at 72 is not at all pitching too high. First, it is the manufacturer's recommended pitching temp, and it has been shown experimentally to produce just as good of a beer as the pitching cold method.

http://brulosophy.com/2014/12/15/the-temp-at-which-we-pitch-exbeeriment-results/#more-2123

 

[flatlanderHQ]

Taking samples is low risk during primary due to the large amoun of carbon dioxide being produced. This provides a protective layer.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[solbes]

Huh, well read through the brulosophy thread and it looks like a well constructed experiment. Not sure the WLP090 results would reproduce across other yeast strains equally, but it might. I will still stick with my current methodology, but am enlightened by the experiment.

I had always assumed (and still believe) that the instructions from WLP and WYeast to pitch warmer relate to the fact that they state a direct pitch with no starter is appropriate. In that case a warmer pitching temp followed by a drop in temp would seem to be the best way to kick off a fermentation with minimal lag time given the less than ideal numbers of yeast cells.

 

[Natdavis777]

I had always assumed (and still believe) that the instructions from WLP and WYeast to pitch warmer relate to the fact that they state a direct pitch with no starter is appropriate. In that case a warmer pitching temp followed by a drop in temp would seem to be the best way to kick off a fermentation with minimal lag time given the less than ideal numbers of yeast cells.

The BrewStrong podcast about yeast and yeast starters touches on a few points about direct pitching without a starter and the given results. In the end, it will make beer, but without bumping the cell count, flavor is what suffers