Fermentation

[rjwhite41]

Its also funny that someone not even involved in this decides to chime in. Did you actually read the all the posts? I wasnt even close to defending him. I was giving specific examples of personal instances where I have had the same things happen. Guess what kiddies, it is possible. Just because you never saw it happen doesnt mean that it could never happen. CO2 can either be absorbed by the solution or expand to cause air to be expelled via the airlock. Some fermentations are more active than others. Ever had a beer that when racking to the secondary or other vessel had lots of tiny CO2 bubbles? But I highly doubt that you will believe this. Many of the people who have read this and either dont care or think it is plausible have moved on. But the people who care to personally attack the other sides view continue to post and continue to try to degrade. Way to go guys. You are now "those" guys.

I made no personal attack on anyone and I never called anyone a liar. I find it odd through personal experience and scientific fact that more than an occasional occurrence of this could happen. I find it even more odd that you get so angry about this subject, especially with me.

I did in fact read every single post. If you had taken the time to read my entire post you would have noticed that I said I believed I started it. If you go to page 1 of this thread I am post number 4. Perhaps you should read every post in this thread. The users question was resolved by Revvy in post number 2 and then the thread evolved into a very "spirited" debate about what percentage of the time someone's airlock should bubble. Someone called Revvy a liar which I believe is out of line. You, however, have been making repeated personal comments ("kiddies" for example) and inferences in an argument that really didn't involve you. You just showed up to defend Revvy, regardless of whether or not you are using personal experience to do it.

Revvy, I have all the respect in the world for you and what you do for the brewers on HBT. To many you are more of an authority than John Palmer or Charlie Papazian. Wrongcoast, my respect for you is non-existent after this post and many others in this thread. If you want to demand that we see your point then you need to see ours. We have admitted that Revvy's advice is spot on and that a hydrometer is the true measure of fermentation. However, an airlock can and does serve a purpose for many of us as a quantifiable measurement of the the creation of CO2 which is a required byproduct of yeast fermenting sugar. It is not and should not be the sole means of measurement. Yes, I have seen tiny CO2 bubbles when transferring and kegging but that isn't even enough to carb the beer and my airlock still bubbled prior to that. I was just apologizing for starting a 6 page fight and stating my personal point of view. If you do not want this thread to continue then quit posting responses to things that do not involve you but merely disagree with you.

 

[mackerman]

Don't really want to get involved in the argument, but this seems a fitting place to request for some more detailed info on when to take a hyrdrometer reading.
I've read that I want to minimalize my brew's exposure to air.
Is there a rule of thumb to know when to take the Day 1 & Day 3 hydrometer readings if you aren't to use the bubbling airlock as an indicator of fermentation?
I've read lots of conflicting opinions on when to change to secondary, if to use a secondary, and when to bottle.

Any generalized or specialized detail would be very helpful for a new brewer who's on his 6th or so batch.

 

[pikledbill]

Gee fellas, I wasn't going to bother with this stupidity again, despite being called everything from a liar to a serial killer, but I'm just going to point one thing out to you and then go back to doing what matters, and helping folks on here.

It's not TOO much of an EXAGGERATION to say that on a typical week, especially one where I'm off work like I will be next week, that my fermentation closet looks something like this, plus my three buckets full of beer, wines, ciders a meads. All different volumes and sizes of fermenters, different types of airlock, or blow off tubes or whatever.

In fact THIS was the output of the brew day in my sigline..ONE BREW DAY...

That's what, 7 different fermenters all pitched on the same day???? 5 meads, a barelyine and a partigyle from there.....

I would be LYING if I didn't say that there aren't many a day where I can have 2, 2.5 gallon fermenters of the same 5 gallon splt batch going, or 5 and 2, 2.5 gallons brewed in the same weekend, or a 5 gallon batch split into 5 1 gallon batches....all in one place where it's easy to see whether an airlock is going or not......

And that could be what my closet looks like, 1 or 2 weekends a month for the last several years.

Someone would have to be both blind AND deaf not to be able to note whether airlocks are bubbling or not.

You don't think that because I write about this so much, that I wouldn't check just about EVERYTIME I have brews going on in there whether or not there's airlock bubbling or not, so I can KEEP saying that 50% I don't have airlock activity?????


Gee if 2 fermenters are sitting next to each other where I pitched yeast in both of them 24 hours before, or 72 hours for that matter, you don't think I could tell that 1 is bubbling and they other isn't......and that, last I checked is 50% isn't it....

You think I need to lie or exagerate to prove that airlocks don't matter, especially when I have probably 10,000 posts of folks like the OP whose airlocks didn't bubble and their beers turned out fine???? I really need to lie or stretch the truth about my own, when I cited 2 folks posts from last week, and at least 2 other brewers jumped in here and said that sometimes their airlock don't blip either?

All I need to do is an advance post search to find response from folks who went and took an hydro reading when their airlock wasn't bubbling. I have more than enough of those to back my argument up without need to lie or even exaggarate......

If I'm going to waste my time making sh!T up, it's gonna be about my penis size to some super model, not how many of my fermentations bubble or not.

Like I said, I'm going back to answer more questions....I'm not going to waste my time with this any more......

Good God Revvy, and I thought I was a "serial brewer"...that is one fine looking set of jugs you have there.

This is one of the more entertaining threads I have read in a while...beer for everyone

 

[pikledbill]

Don't really want to get involved in the argument, but this seems a fitting place to request for some more detailed info on when to take a hyrdrometer reading.

If you are going to post on this thread, you need to be a little less civilized in your approach.


I've read that I want to minimalize my brew's exposure to air.
What you have read is correct...minimize air exposure. However, no need to get crazy on this idea. Remember, some people still ferment in open air containers (at least I do some times). My rule of thumb: when the fermenter is open, don't drool into it - no matter how good it smells. Keep your dog/cat out of it. My point here is to leave it open only so long as you need it open. Open, remove sample, close it up.


I've read lots of conflicting opinions on when to change to secondary, if
to use a secondary, and when to bottle.
This is another issue that will yield vigorous debate...do you need a secondary? You will get different answers from different folks on this. It seems as though many brewers are moving away from secondaries...you make the call after searching and reading existing threads on the subject. There are a few good reasons for using secondaries: dry hopping, adding adjuncts...but I personally don't think it is absolutely necessary for either of these. However, if racking makes you feel better about your beer, then rack away.


Is there a rule of thumb to know when to take the Day 1 & Day 3
hydrometer readings if you aren't to use the bubbling airlock as an
indicator of fermentation?
O.K., I am really not trying to be a smarty pants here, but it is called a Day 1 and Day 3 reading for a reason.

There is no real rule of thumb here.
If your airlock is steadily bubbling, there is fermentation taking place...let it be until the bubbling stops (or slows significantly)...then take a reading, followed by another after 2-3 days. Keep doing this until the reading remains constant...once you have a constant reading, it is time to bottle.

If your airlock is not bubbling, you may want to take a reading after a couple of days (just to make sure) - or crack it open and look for Krausen (not a 100% approach)...if you know you pitched healthy yeast at a good rate, just let it be for a couple of weeks then take a reading. If you are getting close to your estimated final gravity, check it every 2-3 days.

I generally take a reading once per week...just because I can. You just want to be sure your gravity is not still changing...then it is time to bottle. Take periodic readings if it makes you feel better...the only rules here are the ones you set for yourself.


Any generalized or specialized detail would be very helpful for a new
brewer who's on his 6th or so batch.
Use a turkey baster, or wine thief to take out your sample for hydrometer readings...be sure it is clean and sanitized before you use it. Don't try to put the hydrometer into the fermenter (always remove a sample from the fermenter). Never dump the sample back into the fermenter.

Take your OG reading when the sample gets to room temperature, and make sure you know the temperature - temp has an effect on your readings (make sure all of your readings are recorded at the same temperature).

The vigorosity (Yes, I made that up) of your fermentation is a function of the pitching rate and fermentability of your wort (sugar profile, and concentration). Too few yeast means a long lag time with no apparent action in the fermenter. Too many yeast will yield a short violent fermentation.

Have fun with it...make your own rules. This part is difficult to screw up.

Cheers,
Pikledbill

 

[mackerman]

Pikledbill: Thanks for your input. This is very helpful! Cheers!

 

[nlottes]

Revvy vs. Earwig
Revvy: 1
Earwig: 0

However, because of this stupid argument, I decided not to use an airlock at all this time around. Best batch I ever made.

 

[earwig]

Revvy vs. Earwig
Revvy: 1
Earwig: 0

However, because of this stupid argument, I decided not to use an airlock at all this time around. Best batch I ever made.

nlottes vs ...

No one wants to play with nlottes since he is such a loser.

 

[manhattanksbrewer]

Ok i brewed up some pumpkin ale and i had it in primary for 7 days and it fermented like crazy then slowed to creep. I then moved it to secondary and checked reading it started at 1.048 OG down to 1.010 and it really slowed down in fermentation after three days in secondary it still hadnt changed so i bottled it it tasted really good hope it carbonates well. you think i did right or what

 

[earwig]

In my opinion you moved it to secondary way too early. If fermentation was completed before you bottled I'm sure it will turn out good.

EDIT: I misread your post a bit I think. I typically don't use a secondary but I would have waited 2 weeks before moving it to secondary. The secondary in home-brewing is useful for clearing beer or adding flavor. If it was still fermenting in secondary it defeats the purpose a bit.

 

[rjwhite41]

Ok i brewed up some pumpkin ale and i had it in primary for 7 days and it fermented like crazy then slowed to creep. I then moved it to secondary and checked reading it started at 1.048 OG down to 1.010 and it really slowed down in fermentation after three days in secondary it still hadnt changed so i bottled it it tasted really good hope it carbonates well. you think i did right or what

How do you know it fermented like crazy? Did you take daily gravity readings? Or better yet, hourly gravity readings. Your airlock bubbling doesn't mean anything! Just kidding!

 

[D0ug]

How do you know it fermented like crazy? Did you take daily gravity readings? Or better yet, hourly gravity readings. Your airlock bubbling doesn't mean anything! Just kidding!

I've thought of doing this to try to plot out rates of fermentation and see what the strongly correlating variables are, but I don't want to risk enough batches of brew to establish a significant number of trials.
Besides the significant variables seem fairly well known: temp, aeration, fermentables, yeast strain, and... I need to sleep.

 

[pikledbill]

Ok i brewed up some pumpkin ale and i had it in primary for 7 days and it fermented like crazy then slowed to creep. I then moved it to secondary and checked reading it started at 1.048 OG down to 1.010 and it really slowed down in fermentation after three days in secondary it still hadnt changed so i bottled it it tasted really good hope it carbonates well. you think i did right or what

If it tastes good you did it right!!! If your gravity readings were stable, then it is time to bottle...

Nothing wrong with a 7 day primary...you can wait until fermentation has nearly finished (or finished completely) though if you want. Or, don't rack at all. It is up to you. Folks will argue both sides of the "to secondary or not to secondary" debate. What matters is how your beer tastes to you.

Good luck with the Punkin, I hope it is outstanding!

Pikledbill

 

[manhattanksbrewer]

Well i will keep you all updated on whether i made bottle bombs or good beer or terrible beer LOL to be continued

 

[rjwhite41]

I've thought of doing this to try to plot out rates of fermentation and see what the strongly correlating variables are, but I don't want to risk enough batches of brew to establish a significant number of trials.
Besides the significant variables seem fairly well known: temp, aeration, fermentables, yeast strain, and... I need to sleep.

Although it won't be targeted to your system, there is plenty of info available on this forum, on the internet, and in books where they have charts that do just that.

 

[D0ug]

Yeah, but half the fun of science is in recreating experiments.

'twas not but an idle thought.

Merry Christmas!

 

[jonmohno]

This is a response to the origional poster:Out of the 4 batches i made so far only 1 bubbled. After two batches i switchd from a 2 gal home depot bucket to a 2 gallon glass jar with a wooden lid gasket and drilled a stopper airlock hole for.No airlock activity and gravity readings finished out. I know you said it eventually started but,If your worried about it starting i think it would be better to shake gently and warm a little somehow if it was on the low temp side of fermenting.If it were more than a few days.
I wouldnt be sticking my nose in it and taking gravity readings as suggested so much.Because if your doing the 2-3 day consecutive readings to find the finish rate your in there like 4 or 5 +times before botteling.
I think of the airlock as a safety tool to not let air come in, not for activity.Although its nice to see my one batch fart away,i will never depend on it.Look at Mr. Beer they dont even have airlocks.In fact i think i may make a Belgian and just put a coffee filter over it one day.
If it was your temps it was just slow to start im seeing that because i was pitching at 70-80.And now i got fruity flavors more. After those i pitched at 65. and it took a day before i seen krousen,i actually stuck a heating pad on low wrapped in fleece for 20 min and when i got home 8 hours later there was foam on top.If your worried about it starting then just make a yeast starter to begin with.Did you pitch it at a lower temp?What were the temps during your first few days.Sorry if u had already posted temps.Just curious. thanks, Merry Christmas