Fermentation stopped at 1.044

[boyleia1]

jfowler1 Thanks for the advise. it really helps that you explained everything a bit rather then just saying "you did this wrong" I appreciate that and am always happy to learn from my mistakes. (so long as i know what they are).


barrooze - Thanks for the video. That would have been great the first time through rather then yahoo answers which gave me the 2 cup water 1 cup extract recipe (which i doubled).

Thanks everyone for the advise and input i hope anyone else with this problem can learn from my mistake.

I am going to pitch some dry yeast this in the next couple days and see if that helps. I will post the results in a couple days.

 

[Shooter]

Wow, we really didn't catch that tarter issue for a while, huh?

Here's a quick video on simple steps on how to correctly do a yeast starter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znZtE9fcLnE

Give that a view and see if your process is far off what Northern Brewer recommends.

No, no, no, there's a much better method here!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/has-anyone-seen-234201/

 

[barrooze]

No, no, no, there's a much better method here!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/has-anyone-seen-234201/

AHH!! I was afraid he'd see this video and follow the directions! Watch it for ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!! :fro:

Don't forget, when preparing the dry yeast for repitching, rehydrate it. An easy way to do it is as follows:
- boil a cup of water (use tap water, not RO or distilled)
- pour boiled water into a sanitized container (I use a measuring cup)
- cover container with sanitized foil or saran wrap and cool (either in a small ice bath or in the fridge)
- when the water is between 90 & 100 degrees F, open yeast pack and pour into warm water. DO NOT STIR. Just leave the yeasties be.
- re-cover container
- After 15 minutes of leaving the yeast alone, take off cover and stir the yeast up into a slurry
- pour entire slurry into beer

I'm sure other people have other methods of rehydrating dry yeast, but I've had great success with this method. Good luck!

 

[jfowler1]

BARROOZE,

Perfect instructions for dry yeast. Good post. I want to piggy back and mention that the closer the water is to 105 F, the better off you are. Despite conventional thinking, as the water cools, the environment is actuallly less hospitable for the yeast to rehydrate. The scale is pretty linear, and as you approach 60F, you can actually be losing about 60% of your viable yeast. Also, the 105 F liquid has to be water only (no sugar/ starter wort). Until the yeast is hydrated, it has no ability to control what passes through its cell walls. If sugar rushes in first, it will basically cripple the yeast cell.

I found an awesome Q&A with Dr. Clayton Cone of Lallemand (Danstar) addressing a lot of the myths that riddle this board.

http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/06/07/rehydrating-dry-yeast-with-dr-clayton-cone/

Homebrew instructions for dry yeast are an insult. Yes, you can pitch the yeast directly to the wort, and it will work, but it is just due to sheer volume of cells. You will be doing yourself a favor to rehydrate in warm water (as commercial instructions state) and pitch at close to 100% viability, rather than pitch dry at 40% viability. "But it will work anyway" is crappy advice.

Joe

 

[BrewThruYou]

barrooze - Thanks for the video. That would have been great the first time through rather then yahoo answers which gave me the 2 cup water 1 cup extract recipe (which i doubled).

billy brew has a good instruction and video too: http://billybrew.com/how-to-make-a-yeast-starter

I like his because it has a video as well as a step-by-step list. When I first started doing starters (not that long ago), I watched the video and then printed our his instructions.

 

[barrooze]

Yea, any of these methods done by reputable sources are fine. Follow whichever you'll be able to replicate time and time again. Be sure to go to the Mr Malty Pitching Rate
Calculator to determine the volume of starter wort needed for that brew, and then create the starter wort following one of the above methods, using he ratio of 100g DME for every 1000mL of tap water.
Looking back at your OP, the yeast were so tired and overworked from your huge starter, it's no wonder they couldn't ferment your long-stringed wort (high mash temps yield more long string dextrines which are less fermentable or harder to ferment).

 

[boyleia1]

Yea, any of these methods done by reputable sources are fine. Follow whichever you'll be able to replicate time and time again. Be sure to go to the Mr Malty Pitching Rate
Calculator to determine the volume of starter wort needed for that brew, and then create the starter wort following one of the above methods, using he ratio of 100g DME for every 1000mL of tap water.
Looking back at your OP, the yeast were so tired and overworked from your huge starter, it's no wonder they couldn't ferment your long-stringed wort (high mash temps yield more long string dextrines which are less fermentable or harder to ferment).

What would you recommend? Pitching in dry yeast or trying another yeast starter (done right this time)? If i did another yeast starter could i use the yeast "gunk" from the bottom of my carboy?

 

[barrooze]

For this batch, just pitch a rehydrated pack of dry yeast. Maybe use Danstar Nottingham since you used a Scottish strain the first time.

For future batches, when you do a yeast starter, the key is to pitch the proper amount of yeast. That differs from beer to beer. The Mr Malty calculator can help you determine how much starter is required to get the right amount of yeast.

I highly recommend listening to the Brew Strong show that covered yeast starters on The Brewing Network. Yeast starters are really great if you know what you're doing. If not, well, I think you found out what could happen.

Cheers!

 

[boyleia1]

pitched some dry yeast tonight after work. air lock blew a bubble about 35min after adding yeast. There is hope! we will see what happens. Hopefully it does not fizzle out after 48 hours like it has the past 2 pitches. I will update in a couple days! Thanks again to everyone who gave advise, input, and disclosed knowledge to help me.

 

[barrooze]

What temp are you keeping the fermenter at now? Try to keep ambient temp changes to a minimum.

 

[boyleia1]

Temperature in my Apartment was at 70 all week and it appeared to be fermenting slowly last week. Fermentation has now basically stopped (no bubbles from airlock) I took the gravity last night and it was at 1.040. I guess it helped but i am still so high that i consider the dry yeast a failure... Not sure what else to do other than scrap this batch (or just bottle it) and try again later.

 

[pernox]

Make something with a light grist and mash it at 146, use a highly attenuative yeast, and blend the two. It won't be a style, but it'll be beer. Might come out pretty tasty, too.

 

[barrooze]

I meant to reply earlier but life got in the way. If you don't need the fermenter and don't mind throwing some more money at this one, get some Brett, pedio, lambicus vials/packs and throw them in. Wait several months and you'll have a real interesting sour on your hands. The wild yeasts should eat up some of those unfermentables you have in there and thin out the beer a bit. It'd be an interesting experiment if you have the time and money. If you don't, toss it and start over.

 

[kyle6286]

AHH!! I was afraid he'd see this video and follow the directions! Watch it for ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!! :fro:

Don't forget, when preparing the dry yeast for repitching, rehydrate it. An easy way to do it is as follows:
- boil a cup of water (use tap water, not RO or distilled)
- pour boiled water into a sanitized container (I use a measuring cup)
- cover container with sanitized foil or saran wrap and cool (either in a small ice bath or in the fridge)
- when the water is between 90 & 100 degrees F, open yeast pack and pour into warm water. DO NOT STIR. Just leave the yeasties be.
- re-cover container
- After 15 minutes of leaving the yeast alone, take off cover and stir the yeast up into a slurry
- pour entire slurry into beer

I'm sure other people have other methods of rehydrating dry yeast, but I've had great success with this method. Good luck!

Great instructions for re-hydrating dry yeast, thank you! Two questions though. After you pour into the wort, is there a need to stir it? Also, I've read somewhere that when using dry yeast, such as Muntons, people use two packs instead of one. I guess this gives you a better chance in ensuring that the yeast does its job. I only mentioned Muntons because for my first batch that I brewed two weeks ago one pack of Muntons came with my recipe, which was an Amber Ale. I'm sure there are better quality dry yeasts out there. Any help is appreciated. Thank you

 

[jfowler1]

Great instructions for re-hydrating dry yeast, thank you! Two questions though. After you pour into the wort, is there a need to stir it? Also, I've read somewhere that when using dry yeast, such as Muntons, people use two packs instead of one. I guess this gives you a better chance in ensuring that the yeast does its job. I only mentioned Muntons because for my first batch that I brewed two weeks ago one pack of Muntons came with my recipe, which was an Amber Ale. I'm sure there are better quality dry yeasts out there. Any help is appreciated. Thank you

People mention 2 packs of dry yeast because I believe (back in the day) popular yeast brands such as Coopers, and I suppose Muntons, were 7 gram packs. If you follow a pitching rate calculator, 7 grams (even when fresh) would underpitch a typical 5 gallon batch of ale. I am pretty sure the newer, high quality dry yeast brands, such as Fermentis or Danstar, come in a 11.5 gram pack, so they include enough yeast for a correct pitching rate*.

*assuming the yeast has been stored well and is properly rehydrated before use.

Joe

 

[kyle6286]

People mention 2 packs of dry yeast because I believe (back in the day) popular yeast brands such as Coopers, and I suppose Muntons, were 7 gram packs. If you follow a pitching rate calculator, 7 grams (even when fresh) would underpitch a typical 5 gallon batch of ale. I am pretty sure the newer, high quality dry yeast brands, such as Fermentis or Danstar, come in a 11.5 gram pack, so they include enough yeast for a correct pitching rate*.

*assuming the yeast has been stored well and is properly rehydrated before use.

Joe

Oh boy, I just looked at the ingredients on midwestsupplies and my kit came with the 6g of muntons dry yeast. I see the fermentis 11.5g as an upgraded yeast. I only used one pack of muntons. Hope my fermentation goes well lol.

 

[barrooze]

Looking at the Yeast Pitching calculator, it looks like you're right that you'd typically need two 5oz dry yeast packs for a 5 gallon batch of 1.050 beer (just guessed what your recipe is). What beer are you making from MWS? If you can, control your fermentation temperature for the duration of the ferment. The Munton's dry yeast will probably like 68F.

Underpitching won't ruin your beer, I've made several MWS kits using the standard Munton's yeast and I got decent, drinkable beer from it. If you want the best beer possible, though, you may want to try the liquid yeasts with a starter to get the appropriate yeast cell count.

 

[barrooze]

Great instructions for re-hydrating dry yeast, thank you! Two questions though. After you pour into the wort, is there a need to stir it? Also, I've read somewhere that when using dry yeast, such as Muntons, people use two packs instead of one. I guess this gives you a better chance in ensuring that the yeast does its job. I only mentioned Muntons because for my first batch that I brewed two weeks ago one pack of Muntons came with my recipe, which was an Amber Ale. I'm sure there are better quality dry yeasts out there. Any help is appreciated. Thank you

I don't have an oxygen source for the yeast, so what I do is shake the crap out of my full carboy prior to pitching the yeast. I can't recommend this method as it's quite dangerous is you're a little beat from a long brewday (or you've tied on a couple during your brewday) and you could drop the carboy. After this aeration of the wort, if the wort's at my pitching temp (typically a few degrees lower than my initial fermentation temp), I'll pour in the yeast slurry and shake it up again for a minute or so. Sometimes I don't shake it again, it really doesn't matter too much at that point. Just make sure you've aerated the wort well (if using oxygen, DO NOT over oxygenate the wort) and you've rehydrated the yeast pack, you should be fine.

 

[kyle6286]

Looking at the Yeast Pitching calculator, it looks like you're right that you'd typically need two 5oz dry yeast packs for a 5 gallon batch of 1.050 beer (just guessed what your recipe is). What beer are you making from MWS? If you can, control your fermentation temperature for the duration of the ferment. The Munton's dry yeast will probably like 68F.

Underpitching won't ruin your beer, I've made several MWS kits using the standard Munton's yeast and I got decent, drinkable beer from it. If you want the best beer possible, though, you may want to try the liquid yeasts with a starter to get the appropriate yeast cell count.

The beer I made is Autumn Amber Ale. Would I be better off upgrading dry yeasts and going with Fermentis US-05? Basically, would I get better results with this dry yeast? This will only be my second batch so I'd prefer to brew with dry yeast at least one more time before I give liquid yeast a try. Thanks for the help!

 

[barrooze]

The Safale US-05 can contribute fruity, peachy esters if fermented at warmer temps. Nottingham may be a better choice for the Autumn Amber. Either way, I think that Munton's is the cheapest yeast out there and you could benefit from a "premium" dry yeast. Just my opinion.

 

[kyle6286]

The Safale US-05 can contribute fruity, peachy esters if fermented at warmer temps. Nottingham may be a better choice for the Autumn Amber. Either way, I think that Munton's is the cheapest yeast out there and you could benefit from a "premium" dry yeast. Just my opinion.

Great, not sure if I will brew Autumn Amber right away because I most likely want to experiment with other types, but if I do go back to Autumn Amber I will try Nottingham. Thanks for the advice!

 

[UserBanned]

I'm having a similar situation. I re-pitched some yeast on Sunday, so I'll take a reading in a day or so once activity starts up again. This whole stalled fermentation thing sucks! LOL.

 

[boyleia1]

I meant to reply earlier but life got in the way. If you don't need the fermenter and don't mind throwing some more money at this one, get some Brett, pedio, lambicus vials/packs and throw them in. Wait several months and you'll have a real interesting sour on your hands. The wild yeasts should eat up some of those unfermentables you have in there and thin out the beer a bit. It'd be an interesting experiment if you have the time and money. If you don't, toss it and start over.

What do you mean by "dont need the fermenter"? I have glass carboy's. it should be possible to clean it out right? If i can clean it up i might try this but if not i am starting over.. I know wild yeast will contaminate a brewery but will it ruin a carboy?

 

[barrooze]

I meant that if you don't need it to ferment another beer in it in the meantime. If you can let that one just sit in a spot in your home that won't get too hot (stay steady in the high 60s to low 70s), you could have a very interesting sour brew on your hands.

Glass carboy will be just fine if you do sours in it. And wild yeast don't really contaminate if you're sanitary with your cleaning and sanitizing. You'll be fine.

 

[boyleia1]

Update: on 4/7/11 i transferred to secondary with a gravity of 1.040. I intended to let it sit of 3-4 weeks but honestly forgot about it till today. I checked my gravity and i am at 1.010. I guess it just needed a really really long time to work through all the sugar.

 

[junior]

boyleia1,

Thanks for posting that. It is a huge help.

I think that in almost all cases of poor fermentability, you have three culprits.
1. Recipe
2. Mash Temp
3. Yeast Health

1. Recipe
Honestly, it looks good. 2 row, biscuit, and smoked malt are all fermentable. As another poster noted, you efficiency could improve, but that does not seem to be the root problem here (but certainly something to work on). 2 pounds of crystal is a lot, but it would not be enough to get stuck above 1.040. The Brown Shugga clone is just shy of 2 lbs of crystal, and finishes around 1.022.

2. Mash temp
You said something that concerned me. "Boil, add grain". If you boiled, in the above 212 degree sense of the word, you mashed way too hot. I know you mentioned mash at 158 for 110 minutes (which is about 50-60 minutes more than you need at such a high temp - 90 minutes is a good idea with a low mash ~148) but there is no way that boiling water + grain = 158. It is usually more like 175 water + grain = 158. So maybe there is a thermometer problem, or a poorly stirred mash...something to work on next time. Would you perhaps be mashing on a stovetop or right on a burner, with the heat source still on?

3. Yeast health. You probably have been made aware that a starter needs to be 1.040. Use metric and weight (not volume measurements) to figure this out next time. For every 10 ml of water, add 1 gram of light DME. So, 1000 ml (1 Liter) starter gets 100 grams of light DME. Your 1.100 Barleywine starter may have doomed the yeast, or at least, didn't do anything to help them. Oxygen and aeration are insanely important to a good fermentation, but I think you have a couple other hurdles to work out before getting wrapped up in aeration. Baby Steps.

So, keep the same grain bill, and next time work on hitting your mash number. There are free calculators or purchasable software to help you with that calculation. Also, take another try at a starter, 10:1 (water to DME). If liquid yeast and starters seem like too much to deal with, you might have great success rehydrating a pack of dry yeast in 100F pre-boiled water and pitching that.

Hope you have better luck on the next batch, and feel free to ask any follow up questions.

Joe

Joe, I have brewed one batch and had a FG that was on the High side so I figured that I should do some research on this site and stumbled onto this thread. I am using dry yeast for now and would like your opinion, I read something on the web that suggested that one should rehydrate dry yeast and also add some sugars to make sure the yeast are viable. I posted a tread on my problem with a high FG and one member said that adding sugar was a no no, I wrote back for an explanation but never got one, why would putting sugar into the rehydrated yeast compromise the yeast? Regard's