Ferment restarted at day 14 in Secondary

[Bobby_M]

This is weird. My Warrior Pale Ale stayed in the primary for 8 days, then sat in the secondary for about 10 days. At that point, I noticed a few bubbles traveling up the carboy to the neck and leaving the slightest bit of head. Today on day 14 in the secondary, the airlock is going every couple seconds and there's krausen in the neck. I really need to buy a hydrometer because I suppose it just wasn't done and got restarted for some reason. The temp on the stick on fermometer is still, and has been, 68.

Bobby

 

[dougjones31]

Consider yourself lucky. Usually a stuck fermentation does not start back up after that long.

Usually they start up with a temp fluctuation or by being bumped or shaken.

 

[magno]

Be wary though.

The only batch Ive ever had start noticably fermenting in the secondary became the only bottlebombs Ive had, and the only batch to be dumped due to infection.

Good luck, let us know what happens

- magno

 

[Brewpastor]

I would be concerned that there is a secondary infection going on. Hopefully I am wrong, but the pattern doesn't sound good. If it is the case the damage is probably already done and so see what happens. Without a way to measure your gravity it is really hard to know what is going on. You can take a sample and see how it is. Pay attention for sour or musty aromas and flavors. Also evaluate the level of sweetness and try to establish if you had a complete fermentation or not to begin with. Good luck.

 

[Bobby_M]

Infection would certainly be a bummer at this point because I thought I had applied a lot of lessons learned on this batch.

After looking at my notes and thinking about it more, it did seem to have a very short ferment period (about 36-48 hours) which of course means very little when you don't have a hydrometer to go by. But then I realized that my basement gets warmer when the HVAC heat cycles on due to a few duct leaks and the secondary could have gone up from 68 to 70 for a short time. Maybe that was enough to unstick it. I'll give it a taste tomorrow. Thanks for your comments.

 

[puravida286]

I had a "secondary" fermentation in my secondary with my Irish Red Ale that is currently in bottles. Everything tasted OK during the bottlind process. A little extra fermentation in the secondary shouldn't be a problem

 

[dougjones31]

I keep my yeast cakes in Grolsch bottles and burp the bottles until they stop having pressure in them. I have had the yeast climb to the top of the liquid and explode out of the top when I burped it. A little fermentation restart, on a fully fermented beer! I checked the gravity and it was fully fermented.

You should be fine.

 

[Carne de Perro]

I keep my yeast cakes in Grolsch bottles and burp the bottles until they stop having pressure in them. I have had the yeast climb to the top of the liquid and explode out of the top when I burped it. A little fermentation restart, on a fully fermented beer! I checked the gravity and it was fully fermented.
QUOTE]

I'm a bit confused as what you said doesn't make sense to me. How can a fermentation restart when fermentation is complete? By definition, if the yeast have consumed all fermentable sugars available then there should be no new fermentation without the addition of more fermentable sugar. I know some varieties of yeast can ferment sugars that others can't (i.e. Brett), and I've read about some crazy experiment with Beano, but am not sure what else could cause this. Does anyone know?

 

[dougjones31]

Obviously there was a little sugar left. Even in "complete" fermentations there is sugar left. The questionable word is "complete". Attenuation is different for different yeasts in different situations. A fermentation can be complete by calculations and action then the "Situation" or another variable changes and fermentation starts up again.

What I mean to say was that after my specific gravity got down to my goal based on the yeast attenuation, I bottle the yeast. I have had start fermenting 2 weeks afterwards. Weird, but it happens.

 

[Bobby_M]

An update:

It's been 4 days since I noticed a somewhat vigorous restart in fermentation in the secondary and it's noticably calming. I still don't have a hydrometer because I don't have a LBS and haven't placed another ingredients order yet. Assuming this really was just a stuck ferment and not an infection, I'm likely going to give it as many days as I can to start reclearing (before the restart, it was looking great). I have a batch in my primary that will eventually need the only secondary vessel I have, but I assume there really is no hurry.

 

[Dude]

An update:

It's been 4 days since I noticed a somewhat vigorous restart in fermentation in the secondary and it's noticably calming. I still don't have a hydrometer because I don't have a LBS and haven't placed another ingredients order yet. Assuming this really was just a stuck ferment and not an infection, I'm likely going to give it as many days as I can to start reclearing (before the restart, it was looking great). I have a batch in my primary that will eventually need the only secondary vessel I have, but I assume there really is no hurry.

You need to take a sample somehow and try it. That will be the only accurate test at this point to even bother going further.

 

[dantodd]

An update:

I still don't have a hydrometer because I don't have a LBS and haven't placed another ingredients order yet.

Many of local fish stores have floating hydrometers that will work just fine for beer.

 

[Bobby_M]

Really? There's nothing different about them? I used to have a reef tank so I know what you mean, but I thought those were calibrated for 80 degrees F. If it's that easy, I'll pick one up today.

I tasted a sample of this batch this morning and while it's a little bitter and green (it's a pale ale afterall), I don't notice any off flavors. It could just be that I don't know an off flavor when I taste it.

I need to find a trading buddy to get some feedback.

 

[dantodd]

You can check the calibration temp. Either way the temperature adjustment is the same. My aquarium refractometer is really off so I don't know what's up with that.

My recipe called for an OG of 1.052 and my floater came out to an adjusted 1.052 and my refratometer showed 1.070 so I know which one I am going to trust.

 

[Bobby_M]

OK, so it's now 9 days since my beer seemed to start refermenting in the secondary. As per my OP, it started up after about 14 days in the primary. I can still see bubbles rising up and contributing to a small head of foam in the neck of my better bottle. I just got a hydrometer and it's at a temp corrected SG of 1.015.

This worries me because I suppose it's technically finished fermenting at this point. I tasted the sample, and again it's a bit harsh/bitter tasting but I'm too green to know any better.

I'm kinda at a crossroads with this batch. I have a lager that's finished primary and I'd like to rack it to this, my only better bottle, prior to dropping it to lager temps. If I bottle this batch now, am I looking at bottle bombs? Well, I use PET bottles so maybe not.

Would it be better to start lagering my newer batch in the primary and wait and see how the mystery batch does in the next week?

 

[dantodd]

hmmm... sounds a little scary. I'd be very wary of bottling anything that is showing active outgassing, is the SG moving at all with all the "fermentation?" I def. wouldn't lager on the trub in your primary (I think I mentioned that in your other thread)

Might just put this in your bottling tub, racking the lager into this container and cleaning your primary. Then rack this back to the fermenter your lager is in now and see what happens.

 

[chillHayze]

hmmm... sounds a little scary. I'd be very wary of bottling anything that is showing active outgassing, is the SG moving at all with all the "fermentation?" I def. wouldn't lager on the trub in your primary (I think I mentioned that in your other thread)

Might just put this in your bottling tub, racking the lager into this container and cleaning your primary. Then rack this back to the fermenter your lager is in now and see what happens.

I would go this route as well, assuming you have the bottling bucket.

 

[Bobby_M]

I do have a bottling bucket but I'm beginning to think I'd be wasting my time trying salvage this batch. Unfortunately I didn't have a hydrometer when I first brewed it, but it has an estimated OG of 1.050 and it's now at 1.015 (70% attenuation). It's still bubbling.

From Palmer: "Cause 3: Wild yeast A gusher bug has gotten into the beer. Gusher bugs and wild yeasts are a real problem as they will keep on fermenting the beer until there is nothing left but fizzy bitter alcoholic water. The real danger with overcarbonation is exploding bottles."

"Cause 2: Gusher Infection However, the sustained bubbling is often due to "gusher type" infection. These infections can occur at any time and are due to wild yeasts or bacteria that eat the higher order sugars, like dextrins. The result in the fermentor is a beer that keeps bubbling until all of the carbohydrates are fermented, leaving a beer that has no body and very little taste. If it occurs at bottling time, the beer will overcarbonate and will fizz like soda pop, fountaining out of the bottle."

oh darn!

 

[dantodd]

I think it's probably worth letting it do its own thing. 70% attenuation isn't out of line. Now if you are up at 85% I would think it's time for the drain.

 

[Bobby_M]

Here's a silly question. If I move my questionable batch out of the secondary into my bottling bucket, is there any reason I can't just leave it in there with an airlocked lid? I figure I'd give it another week in there, mix in my priming sugar water and just bottle it. I think I could probably take the spigot out, sanitize, put it back in the bucket and rubberband a baggie over it to keep it clean until bottling.

Also, I spoke with a guy at my LBS and told him about my odd batch being at 1.015 and he simply suggested it wasn't done fermenting. Being a pale ale, he suggested it should be closer to 1.010 so continued fermentation is a good thing. What I can't figure out is why it is taking a number of weeks to complete.

This recipe used two packets of Munton's ale yeast. I kept the fermenter at 68 degrees for both primary and secondary and it's just now starting to get cooler in the basement which shows 66 on fermometer. The only other thing I can think of is the fact that it was my first full batch boil and all I did to aerate was pour into the primary bucket from a considerable height. It foamed, but maybe the yeast didn't get a great start.

 

[troybinso]

Do your best to be patient with this one. If you want to rack it again, you can certainly do that. A bottling bucket with a lid and airlock would make a fine tertiary fermenter. Don't dump beer unless you are pretty sure that it is bad. Leave it for another week or so and check the SG. I bet it will drop a few points.

 

[Bobby_M]

Thanks for weighing in on this. I just want to remind ya'll that the only reason i'm seeming impatient with this batch is that it's occupying my only secondary vessel and I have a lager that is ready for lagering that is currently sitting on trub.

 

[Jamesemt]

Good excuse to buy another secondary vessel

 

[Bobby_M]

Yeah, this isn't one of those battles i'm willing to start with the wife. I told her no more equipment for a while, only ingredients. I tried staggering my batches so that i wouldn't have this problem. Who knew a pale ale would need two months to ferment?

 

[batch]

I had a similar thing happen for an IPA -- primary went fine for a few days;
then I transfered to the secondary and it started up again after a few days.

I was using Munton's ale yeast for this batch (first try using that brand).

I am about to bottle, I'll let you know how it tastes.

-batch

....

This recipe used two packets of Munton's ale yeast. I kept the fermenter at 68 degrees for both primary and secondary and it's just now starting to get cooler in the basement which shows 66 on fermometer. The only other thing I can think of is the fact that it was my first full batch boil and all I did to aerate was pour into the primary bucket from a considerable height. It foamed, but maybe the yeast didn't get a great start.

 

[Bobby_M]

Hmm, does this sound like a Munton's yeast issue or what?

If it had simply started up for a few days I wouldn't be concerned. It's still offgassing now, albeit slower, at almost a month in the secondary.

What baffles me is that it's at the recipe's target FG of 1.015 and I have this local guy telling me 15 points is way too high for a pale ale. I plan to take another reading today to see if it has dropped any lower in the past 3 days. The weird thing is, I see these tiny bubbles rising up on the edges of my better bottle pretty consistently and there's a slight head on the top, but the airlock hasn't budged at all. I can tell because the inverted cup is sitting all the way down on the upright tube.

I'm putting this crud into my bottling bucket tonight with an airlock on it and I'll be bottling for better or worse this coming weekend.

 

[dougjones31]

Store the bottles insside several boxes inside of one another so that when they explode, nothing will be damaged. And the boxes will absorb the beer so that it does not make a mess. Live and learn. This is why I keg.....no bottle bombs anymore.

 

[Bobby_M]

That's a pretty good tip, thanks. I wonder how more/less likely the PET bottles are to exploding compared to glass. I'm sure it could still do a little damage and scare the hell out of me, but probably not as dangerous to clean up afterwards.

 

[Bobby_M]

Quick update. I actually bottled this batch on 10/31 because once I drained off enough beer taking another hydro, the level dropped below the neck of the better bottle and the offgasing seemed to stop. Seems the overall column of beer was really only releasing a small bubble here and there but it appeared to be more as it concentrated into the small neck of the bottle.

Anyway, the FG didn't move in the few days so I felt confident in bottling. I took my first taste last night and it's damn good but I'm lucky that I like IPAs. As mentioned, I followed a recipe that called for a partial boil so they assumed less hop utilization and likely kicked up the bittering hops. In addition, I did a late LME addition for a lighter color just for kicks and now I realize that the lower gravity boil also increased my hops utilization. Qbrew puts this batch at 70 IBU which I believe is way up there for a regular pale ale.

Started with a Warrior Pale Ale recipe and I'm going to call this one the Workhorse Oops IPA. Workhorse because the ferment took a couple weeks and I didn't mean to make an IPA. Haha, my father thought my light ale had punch-you-in-the-face bitterness.

 

[dantodd]

Sounds like a great beer. It will only get better with a little more time in the bottle.

 

[batch]

I finally got a chance to bottle my IPA (Munton's yeast as well, weird
resurgence of the fermentation). It was 6 weeks in the secondary,
a record for me. But it hit a final grav. of 1.01 and it tasted great.
Just goes to show, those yeasties know what they are doing. Might go back to US-56 though for the next batch.
-batch