Feedback on Saison

[rhys333]

I'm getting into saisons lately and I've done the standards with base malt and European hops. They're great, but I'd like to try a batch with a bolder malt profile and a different hop blend. Any thoughts/suggestions on the following appreciated:

SAISON (25 IBU/1.045)
83% 2 Row
10% German Munich 10
7% C80
0.1 oz Warrior @ 60
0.5 oz each: Hallertauer Tradition + Columbus @ 10 & 0
WY 3724

I'm looking moderate malty raisin character from the grain bill, herbal, earthy tones from the hops combined with spicy aromatics from 3724.

 

[Upthewazzu]

if you want raisin they go with Crystal/caramel 120 or special b malt.

 

[saltymirv]

I would drop the C80 and use belgian candi syrup D-90 or D-180 depending what you are going for. The candi syrup will help dry it out but still give a ton of flavor.

For herbal and earthy I'm reminded of EKG/Fuggles

 

[beergolf]

I brew a lot of saisons and tried darker saisons using. either caramel malts or dark syrup. They really did not do much for me. Sound good on paper but meh in reality. Caramel malts just do not do it for me in a saison. I did a dark saison using some midnight wheat that was pretty good. Mostly dark color with just a hint or roast, barely noticable.

If you are looking to try other ways to make more interesting saisons, then I would look at thing like rye, oats or my favorite spelt. They make great saisons. Look at Strisselspalt hops. They just are made for saisons. One of my favorites is 70% pils, 30% spelt and Strisslespalt hops. Very good.

Or 80% pils, 20% rye, 10% turbinado sugar or honey, strisslespalt hops. Nice.

Another suggestion if you are looking for a maltier saison like brew, look at a good Biere de Garde. Similar to a saison but with a much maltier flavor. I do one every year. That may closer to what you are trying to achieve.

 

[rhys333]

Thanks all, great feedback. I'm drinking a wheat saison right now with 10% oats and EKG, and have another one conditioning with 10% rye, black malt for colour and Sterling hops. I've considered using some Victory malt for this one, but maybe that's crazy talk. I'll drop the C80 though and consider your suggestions.

 

[stieg000]

I've done a lot of saisons with EKG, seems to be a great hop for a saison. I always do 8 to 10% turbinado to dry it out.

 

[rhys333]

I might go with:

91% 2 Row
6% Victory
3% Aromatic

 

[rhys333]

I brew a lot of saisons and tried darker saisons using. either caramel malts or dark syrup. They really did not do much for me. Sound good on paper but meh in reality. Caramel malts just do not do it for me in a saison. I did a dark saison using some midnight wheat that was pretty good. Mostly dark color with just a hint or roast, barely noticable.

If you are looking to try other ways to make more interesting saisons, then I would look at thing like rye, oats or my favorite spelt. They make great saisons. Look at Strisselspalt hops. They just are made for saisons. One of my favorites is 70% pils, 30% spelt and Strisslespalt hops. Very good.

Or 80% pils, 20% rye, 10% turbinado sugar or honey, strisslespalt hops. Nice.

Another suggestion if you are looking for a maltier saison like brew, look at a good Biere de Garde. Similar to a saison but with a much maltier flavor. I do one every year. That may closer to what you are trying to achieve.

You know, I've been thinking. You're not keen on the dark syrup, but what about golden to amber invert? I can see it working at maybe 5% of grist.

 

[beergolf]

You know, I've been thinking. You're not keen on the dark syrup, but what about golden to amber invert? I can see it working at maybe 5% of grist.

Yeah. The dark does not seem to fit in a saison recipe. Too much going on for a saison.

The CSI golden syrup works. I have used that in a saison before with good results. Something that ended up tasting a little like Hennepin.

I often use turbinado sugar which also adds a slight color change and a small flavor contribution.

 

[rhys333]

Well I've been messing around with a couple pounds of sugar and some DAP. I now have a pound each of medium and dark amber Belgian candi syrup. Damn tasty stuff. Non-traditional rye saison it is! Maybe something like:

FOUR NATION SINGLE HOP SAISON - 1.050 / 35 IBU
72% UK Maris Otter
10% US Rye
10% German Munich 10
8% Belgian candi syrup
WY 3724
1.5 oz Columbus @8
1.5 oz Columbus @ 150F