Favre overload--COUNTDOWN TO 421

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the_bird said:
I'm having trouble with the whole concept of it being more important to "honor" Favre by letting him play forever, even if it hurts the team as a whole.

Remind me, who was it that once said "Winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing"?
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I believe that you are the only one that thinks he is hurting the team as a whole. There's nothing wrong with his skills, it's his supporting cast that is the problem, most notably his O-line, and butterfingered recievers, save for Driver. Trade him in order to fill some of those holes? No, thank you. I don't want to see him finish his career anywhere else. I'd rather have him retire and spend the next few years swearing at the TV when Rodgers plays.
 
How much do they pay him, though? Wouldn't they, conceivably, be a much better team if that money was spread out among all the other positions where they need help?
 
Dude said:
LMAO, really.

Is it because more than one person has spoken reality and you are so downtrodden from Favre bombing your team for 15 years that you can't accept the truth? :D
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:yawn: :rolleyes:
 
the bird's getting right at the heart of the issue. no one is saying favre isn't a Hall of Famer, the questioning comes along the lines of green bay fans being too emotionally attached to him (as a qb, player, leader, team rep, and celb) to be able to know when to say WHEN. it's over. all these warm and fuzzy favre defenses might be all the above - uncommon nowadays, admirable, deserving - but they themselves do not add up to an eternal roster spot. are all you pack fans really willing to watch brett play until we all agree it is embarrasing? are you willing to say that that line even exists, or are your "he's earned it", "he can play as long as he wants" comments actually sincere???
 
Fiery Sword said:
the bird's getting right at the heart of the issue. no one is saying favre isn't a Hall of Famer, the questioning comes along the lines of green bay fans being too emotionally attached to him (as a qb, player, leader, team rep, and celb) to be able to know when to say WHEN. it's over. all these warm and fuzzy favre defenses might be all the above - uncommon nowadays, admirable, deserving - but they themselves do not add up to an eternal roster spot. are all you pack fans really willing to watch brett play until we all agree it is embarrasing? are you willing to say that that line even exists, or are your "he's earned it", "he can play as long as he wants" comments actually sincere???
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How many Packer games have you watched this year? :rolleyes:
 
again, emotional attachment. i've watched enough to know that they are 6-8 and they aren't going to make the playoffs. however, the recent trend leads me to say that the team needs to take development in a new direction. much like bledsoe getting benched for romo....johnson getting benched for jackson....etc...there comes a time where the veteran has to sit. everyone without this "bond" to favre can see that it is time for him, and for the team, to move on.

all things aside, and even in the current phase of his career, he is 5 million times the QB as Rex Grossmanasaurus. just though i'd throw that in, bears fans. .....thats the fluffiest 12-2 record i've ever seen in my life...:D
 
Fiery, if you're trying to start **** with Bears fans regarding the Grossman comments, I wouldn't bother - I think most would agree with you!

I heard something very funny the few days ago. You can tell that Bears fans are the most loyal in the game. They've been calling for Brian Griese to be the QB, which means that they clearly have only watched Bears games and don't know how terrible he is. :D
 
Fiery Sword said:
again, emotional attachment. i've watched enough to know that they are 6-8 and they aren't going to make the playoffs. however, the recent trend leads me to say that the team needs to take development in a new direction. much like bledsoe getting benched for romo....johnson getting benched for jackson....etc...there comes a time where the veteran has to sit. everyone without this "bond" to favre can see that it is time for him, and for the team, to move on.

all things aside, and even in the current phase of his career, he is 5 million times the QB as Rex Grossmanasaurus. just though i'd throw that in, bears fans. .....thats the fluffiest 12-2 record i've ever seen in my life...:D
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Have you guys been reading ANY of our posts??? I'll say it again: even if it WERE time to "sit the veteren and go in a new direction" the Pack HAS no new direction. RODGERS SUCKS and isn't fit to tie Favre cleats even on Favre's worst day. Again, we shoulda drafted Lienart, but even if we did, I'd just as soon have him sit a couple years before playing. For those of you that don't know Pack history as well as Cheeseheads, they have a knack for bad first round draft picks. Rodgers, Terrell Buckley(in front of Troy Vincent), Tony Mandarich(in front of Barry Sanders) Rich Campbell (in front of Joe Montana) just to name a few. And even though AJ Hawk has been very good this year, I still would have like Leinart.

BTW isn't Favre a Pro Bowl alternate this year??? He can't be all bad.
 
All the Griese talk has become a dead issue the last couple of weeks. I think Rexie will turn out to be a decent QB, if he can stay healthy. And 12-2 is still 12-2 and in the NFL, that's saying something!

But none of this matters. New Orleans is going to win the Super 'Bowel' this year. Period.
 
Pro Bowl appearances are meaningless - they're 90% based on reputation. Besides, who else besides Drew Brees really has a Pro Bowl-caliber season in the NFC this season? MAYBE Marc Bulger, but the Rams pretty much suck. All the good QBs not named Brees seem to reside in the AFC these days.
 
ablrbrau said:
Have you guys been reading ANY of our posts??? I'll say it again: even if it WERE time to "sit the veteren and go in a new direction" the Pack HAS no new direction. RODGERS SUCKS and isn't fit to tie Favre cleats even on Favre's worst day. Again, we shoulda drafted Lienart, but even if we did, I'd just as soon have him sit a couple years before playing. For those of you that don't know Pack history as well as Cheeseheads, they have a knack for bad first round draft picks. Rodgers, Terrell Buckley(in front of Troy Vincent), Tony Mandarich(in front of Barry Sanders) Rich Campbell (in front of Joe Montana) just to name a few. And even though AJ Hawk has been very good this year, I still would have like Leinart.

BTW isn't Favre a Pro Bowl alternate this year??? He can't be all bad.
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Don't forget about the fact that Rodgers played less than 3/4 of a game this year and managed to break his foot....even if it were time to sit Favre and try to at least evaluate the next direction....we couldn't.

Apparently we should be giving Ingle Martin a chance, eh!! :drunk:
 
ablrbrau said:
Have you guys been reading ANY of our posts??? I'll say it again: even if it WERE time to "sit the veteren and go in a new direction" the Pack HAS no new direction. RODGERS SUCKS and isn't fit to tie Favre cleats even on Favre's worst day. Again, we shoulda drafted Lienart, but even if we did, I'd just as soon have him sit a couple years before playing. For those of you that don't know Pack history as well as Cheeseheads, they have a knack for bad first round draft picks. Rodgers, Terrell Buckley(in front of Troy Vincent), Tony Mandarich(in front of Barry Sanders) Rich Campbell (in front of Joe Montana) just to name a few. And even though AJ Hawk has been very good this year, I still would have like Leinart.

BTW isn't Favre a Pro Bowl alternate this year??? He can't be all bad.
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I know Fravre is not "bad", and in fact I think the guy, career-wise, is one of (but the THE) best quaterbacks in the history of the game. I am suggesting that the fact that the Pack has no new direction is BECAUSE you are all still waiting and relying on Favre. It's a self-fulfilling argument.....you can't let go of the past while you worry that you don't have a plan for the future.

I'm really, really not dumping on Favre, the Pack, or yawl Cheeseheads. I've got a lot of respect for the entre Packers history/fans/ownership.......I just am not "emotionally" invested since I'm not from there and I really think that the sooner the Pack takes off the Favre-brand trianing wheels the sooner you will have another '96.

And for the record, I really, really AM dumping on the bears. Right on, bird, they want The Grease? Give 'em the Grease!!!!!
 
I think (know) all of us Cheesies would agree that we need to have something in the works for a future QB and when we picked up Rodgers in '05 we figured we had that guy in the pot for when that time does comes. Ablrbrau has it right, although I'm not ready to write him off totally yet. However the little glimpses we've seen of him has not been very promising (and out for the season). I'd love to have the equivalent of Young behind Montana but that's not where we're at right now.

When we thought we had the next Bart Starr in Don Makowski to finally pull us out of the **** because we finally made the playoffs after 20 years and he got hurt, Brett came in, tore the place up and we saw and knew our future. Rodgers has not even come close to showing us that when given the opportunity.

Tha pack's biggest problem over the last 5-6 years is doing crap in the free agency market & stupid draft picks. Drove me friggen insane after each year NO MOVES! That and the 5 straight years of trying to get free safetys and corners to stop Randy Moss. They got so many holes that this is going to be a multi-year turnaround in many positions. Front office got them in this position and was gutted last year. Yep, we need a new QB in the mix but while Favre still is playing above the average QB in the league we'll continue to have to fill all the other holes but I repeat, yes we need to get a QB in queue. And spend some money in FA.
 
desertBrew said:
..and corners to stop Randy Moss.
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That cracks me up. It seemed like every cornerback would just fall to the ground just before the pass reached Moss.

We just needed a corner to stay upright.
 
How much cap room do the Packers have this season? To be fair, they do have the natural disadvantage of NO ONE WANTING TO PLAY IN FRIGGIN' WISCONSIN. Which means, they need to be uber-smart about drafting.

What they really SHOULD do is try and pry away Scott Pioli from the Patriots. Give him full and complete control over all personel decisions - including what to do with Favre. I'm not sure how this works contractually, but I think he can get out of his Pats deal, if he wants, as long as he's getting a promotion. That would certainly be an area of contention, they might end up paying the Pats some compensation, but before anything else, they need to get someone in charge with some real power and some real draftin acumen.

Free agency's a crapshoot, anyway. The other approach to build depth quickly, anfd without much cap room, is what the Pats did in '00 - basically, bring in any and every veteran you can, all the guys considered to be pretty much washed out, but looking for a few last years of glory, and see who sticks. For the Pats, I'll always consider Brian Cox (completely unwanted by the rest of the league) to have been one of the real triggers to the team's subsequent greatness. Trying to pick up a star free agent or two is a fool's errand, especially when you have to overpay to get them to move to Green Bay.
 
Going to GB used to be a huge stigma for free agency. Reggie White changed that in the 90s but he did go to the highest offer even though he said he saw a winner in Favre. Ultimately players want to go to a winner and if they don't you shouldn't want them but if the playing field is equal with two substandard teams I'd probably pick somewhere warmer or where there is a nightlife. These are 20-30 year olds after all and they all have to go to MKE or CHI to have some fun.

Totally agree on the not high paid free agents with known skills on their last 2-5 years in the league. Don't know the packers financials and what Favre is paid though. Where is a site for that info anyways?
 
the_bird said:
What they really SHOULD do is try and pry away Scott Pioli from the Patriots. Give him full and complete control over all personel decisions - including what to do with Favre. I'm not sure how this works contractually, but I think he can get out of his Pats deal, if he wants, as long as he's getting a promotion. That would certainly be an area of contention, they might end up paying the Pats some compensation, but before anything else, they need to get someone in charge with some real power and some real draftin acumen.
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Pioli would be great, but keep in mind the Packers have the GM that built a Super Bowl team in Seattle. Ted Thompson was responsible for drafting quite a few studs on that team...Shaun Alexander, Hamlin, Tatupu, Walter Jones, Hutchison (now with the Vikings), etc. etc. Tightwad Ted is doing a fine job in GB as well. He's drafted some fine young gems it seems, who will come into their own with time. Everyone hated the Woodson FA signing but the guy has turned out to be a warrior for us this year. This team isn't as far away as everyone thinks, and again Favre isn't the one holding it back.

I'm glad to see we are kind of getting this issue straightened out--:D

Packer fans are right 70% of the time--all the time. :mug:
 
Ugly game. I think Brett is the ALL-TIME leader in back to back INTs. Good God he is hard to watch sometimes.

Still though, he moved the ball all night long and got screwed out of a TD pass by dumba$$ Bubba Franks.

And sweeping the Vikes and knocking them out of the playoffs? How sweet is that? That was our Super Bowl.
 
Bubba Franks has been so bad this year, and that game just summed it all up. I was so disgusted I was yelling 'Cut him!' at the TV.
 
Dude said:
Ugly game. I think Brett is the ALL-TIME leader in back to back INTs. Good God he is hard to watch sometimes.
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I'm not trying to defend Brett and his tendency to throw the INT, BUT I honestly would like to see the NFL take a look at that stat and start giving recievers some of the blame. If we went back and looked at all of Farves INTs how many would be the fualt of the reciever for just not holding onto the ball or making an effort to catch the GD thing.

Freeking drives me nutz. Ya think for the money they make they could atleast try . . . yet another reason to scrap the NFL pay scales and go to a set salery with performance pay anf performance peneltys. Something like $1000 per reception, $100 per yard, $1000 per tackel, $2500 per sack, and lose $1000 per yard penalized. Maybe then you would see these overpaid spoiled babys actually put forth an effort to make a play.
 
Pumbaa said:
Freeking drives me nutz. Ya think for the money they make they could atleast try . . . yet another reason to scrap the NFL pay scales and go to a set salery with performance pay anf performance peneltys. Something like $1000 per reception, $100 per yard, $1000 per tackel, $2500 per sack, and lose $1000 per yard penalized. Maybe then you would see these overpaid spoiled babys actually put forth an effort to make a play.
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You think guys like TO and Chad Johnson cry to "Get me the damn ball!" now?... ;)

I actually think the NFL is the best of the major leagues in this regard. No guaranteed contracts means that big-name guys get cut all the time. I don't know what he did or didn't do, but Doug Gabriel, for a while the Pats' best receiver, was cut recently when we desperately need receivers.

And people DO keep track of those kinds of stats - they just aren't officially recognized by the NFL, so therefore by Dude's logic they are completely worthless.... ;)
 
the_bird said:
And people DO keep track of those kinds of stats - they just aren't officially recognized by the NFL, so therefore by Dude's logic they are completely worthless.... ;)
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Who keeps track of that stat? The only one I can think of that is "unofficially" recorded is dropped passes. I also know that Troy Aikman has some rating system as well, but it isn't official. Seems to be a better indicator of a team's performance rather than the standard team rankings, but again, it isn't official.

By your logic we could start counting the number of times the coach holds his clipboard up to his face vs. and come up with a winning percentage based on that. :rolleyes:

My point is, you just got done saying the NFL is pretty much the best league at what they do, so let them keep it that way. They record the stats they do for a reason.
 
But, there's a big difference between the stats that are used for official records and such versus those that are used in scouting opponents and analyzing your own players. All the stuff that they talk about in Moneyball - that gets applied in every sport these days. Could that stuff ever really be "official" - probably not, because there are judgment calls made. Lots of it would also require tht you knew the play call, so that you knew whether the receiver ran the wrong route, for example. But I guarantee you that the Packers know exactly how many of Favre's interceptions were his fault and how many were the fault of the receiver, and I bet every team in the league has a really good idea.
 
the_bird said:
But I guarantee you that the Packers know exactly how many of Favre's interceptions were his fault and how many were the fault of the receiver, and I bet every team in the league has a really good idea.
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I'll bet it is discussed at the weekly film session and then forgotten. I guarantee it isn't kept for records or stat purposes.

I'm not making excuses for Favre, but he really hasn't ever had 2 legit receivers in his entire career. He has made some very pedestrian WRs look Pro Bowlish. Billy freaking Schroeder anyone? Antonio "cement shoes" Freeman?
 
So for the Packers to get in the playoffs they need to beat Da Bears and:

• Green Bay can clinch a playoff berth with:
1. A win plus a NY Giants win + GB clinches strength of victory tiebreaker over NYG
• Green Bay clinches strength of victory tiebreaker over N.Y. Giants if: Arizona, Detroit, Miami, Minnesota and San Francisco all win and Carolina, Houston and Tampa Bay all lose. :cross:

We'll get em next year.
 
I thought of (2) one word characterizations for the Bears.
1). Fraud.
2.) Exposed.

As of half, I'll be charitable and go with, "Exposed."
 
Dude,
The more I watch him the more I like Favre. He ain't perfect by any stretch but what a competitor and what a class act. I actually hope the Packers convince him to play for them for one more year (If they still want him). He still has the physical tools. He just needs more talent around him.
He is getting surgery on his ankle tomorrow (New Years Day) ? Sounds like he wants to play next year.
 
Dude said:
UH-OH.

I really didn't like that interview. Not looking good for 1 more year, eh?
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Not looking good at all. :( I think Hawk will quickly become the new face of the Packers if Favre in fact does hang it up after tonight. I'm just dreading the prospect of searching for a new QB, though. I know it's unfair to judge this early, but Rodgers just doesn't strike me as the guy to fill #4's shoes...

If Brett comes back, I think this team has a chance of being very competitive in the NFC next season. The offensive line will be that much better with another season together, Jennings can continue his ascension, Koren Robinson will be back, etc. They have a chance to be very good, I think.

Come on, Brett! One more year. Hell, make it two more years.
 
All I will say is....

GO PACK!!!!!

Go FAVRE!!! and GO GREEN!!! In whatever you decide to do. You've earned that much.
 
I get tired of hearing all of the retirement crap, didn't Warren Moon play into his forties? If Favre can still play then he should--for love of the game, not for records.

By the way, I never liked Favre considering he is in our division and has embarrased us numerous times, but I'm not bashing on him here.;)
 
Dude said:
UH-OH.

I really didn't like that interview. Not looking good for 1 more year, eh?
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I missed the whole game. What'd he say? Personally I think the media should stop asking "are you retiring" all the time. Friggen let it happen or not; stop posing the question all the time.
 
I hope none of you Packies were flaming Adam Morrison when he went crybaby after UCLA blew the Zags out of the water last year.

I feel like I've seen Bret Favre cry on TV more than ANY athlete EVER. I propose re-naming this thread to "Tammy Faye Overload" :D
 
RichBrewer said:
Dude,

He is getting surgery on his ankle tomorrow (New Years Day) ? Sounds like he wants to play next year.
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The surgery has been postponed. What does that mean :confused: It has to mean something, right?!
It's gonna be another long couple months in Wisconsin.
 
I found this EXTREMELY interesting. I guess Peter King is an idiot too, eh, haters? :rolleyes:

Taken from a recent Peter King (Sports Illustrated football guru) column:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/02/06/super/1.html

Where would I rank Favre right now? Okay, here we go. I say 10. My order:

1. Peyton Manning. 2. Tom Brady. 3. Drew Brees. 4. Carson Palmer. 5. Marc Bulger. 6. Matt Hasselbeck. 7. Philip Rivers. 8. Donovan McNabb. 9. Tony Romo. 10. Brett Favre. 11. Ben Roethlisberger. 12. Matt Leinart. 13. Vince Young. 14. Chad Pennington. 15. Jay Cutler.

That ought to get the arguments started.

Now, Favre threw for the seventh-most yards in his career with Donald Driver and a bunch of John Does playing wideout. His tight end, Bubba Franks, has fallen off the face of the earth; he played like he should have been on the side of a milk carton in 2006. Favre was sacked 21 times in 657 dropbacks, so he certainly still has the escapability that a quarterback needs. You think he had a bad year? I think you're wrong.
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