Fairly new brewer with a question for long time brewers.

[CavScout]

I've brewed several batches of beer over the past couple years. Just started to get more/seriously involved in the hobby because its addictive, a lot of fun, and I love beer. I've been lurking around here since I've started.

My question is regarding "sanitation". I know its comes up a lot and besides oxygen its one of the key things that can mess up a brew.

I'm not big on using toxic chemicals in stuff I'm going to drink no matter if they say it's safe levels. Especially after recent events. I'm from WV, I'm sure you heard about our water crisis by now.

I've never used any of the recommended sanitizing solutions. Always just used unscented antibacterial soap, hot/boil water, other common nontoxic products and a dishwasher Right before use. No issues so far.

I mean how long were people brewing beer before all of this stuff came about? Even so called cleaners blow anything they had out of the water. And after you sanitize its prone to exposure as soon as you remove it. Its homebrew, not going to be in a sterile environment.

Maybe I'm just hard headed and haven't got an infected batch but I feel that my equipment is good and sanitary from my methods.

 

[BrewWNC]

Dont fix your system if its not broken.

I prefer the recommended sanitizing solutions but would definitely be open to more organic ways to sanitize.

 

[LandoLincoln]

People were brewing beer with wild yeasts for thousands of years. Not sure how good they actually tasted, and they most likely didn't taste the same from batch to batch, but yeah, it WAS beer.

Star San isn't toxic. You can drink it straight.

 

[DoWBrewer]

The problem is that anti-bacterial soap or bleach (or other common cleaners) could leave residual chemicals behind that are bad for you or your beer. The reason to use brewing cleaners and sanitizers is that they are made for brewing or at least understood in the context of brewing. They will kill the things you need killed like wild yeast and bacteria, but still rinse easily.

Yes, people brewed for thousands of years before these chemicals, but you are assuming that they brewed beer that tasted good. Anyone can make alcohol, but making it taste the good, the way you want it to consistantly is much more difficult.

The good chemicals are expensive, but there are many posts on how to use them, but use them efficiently, such as filling a spay bottle with star san or reusing still viable chemicals.

 

[CavScout]

People were brewing beer with wild yeasts for thousands of years. Not sure how good they actually tasted, and they most likely didn't taste the same from batch to batch, but yeah, it WAS beer.

Star San isn't toxic. You can drink it straight.

Really ever read the warnings on a starsan bottle?

 

[Doctor_M]

Star San isn't toxic. You can drink it straight.

Diluted per 5 stars directions absolutely....however I thought non diluted warranted cause for concern.

 

[CavScout]

The problem is that anti-bacterial soap or bleach (or other common cleaners) could leave residual chemicals behind that are bad for you or your beer. The reason to use brewing cleaners and sanitizers is that they are made for brewing or at least understood in the context of brewing. They will kill the things you need killed like wild yeast and bacteria, but still rinse easily.

Yes, people brewed for thousands of years before these chemicals, but you are assuming that they brewed beer that tasted good. Anyone can make alcohol, but making it taste the good, the way you want it to consistantly is much more difficult.

The good chemicals are expensive, but there are many posts on how to use them, but use them efficiently, such as filling a spay bottle with star san or reusing still viable chemicals.

I know all about the residues that's why I wash them out and then let them sit in boiling/ hot water.

 

[Doctor_M]

I've brewed several batches of beer over the past couple years. Just started to get more/seriously involved in the hobby because its addictive, a lot of fun, and I love beer. I've been lurking around here since I've started.

My question is regarding "sanitation". I know its comes up a lot and besides oxygen its one of the key things that can mess up a brew.

I'm not big on using toxic chemicals in stuff I'm going to drink no matter if they say it's safe levels. Especially after recent events. I'm from WV, I'm sure you heard about our water crisis by now.

I've never used any of the recommended sanitizing solutions. Always just used unscented antibacterial soap, hot/boil water, other common nontoxic products and a dishwasher Right before use. No issues so far.

I mean how long were people brewing beer before all of this stuff came about? Even so called cleaners blow anything they had out of the water. And after you sanitize its prone to exposure as soon as you remove it. Its homebrew, not going to be in a sterile environment.

Maybe I'm just hard headed and haven't got an infected batch but I feel that my equipment is good and sanitary from my methods.

If it's working for you then I guess roll with it. What's the longest you've kept your homebrew? Ever have problems with head retention?

 

[Braufessor]

Always just used unscented antibacterial soap, hot/boil water, other common nontoxic products and a dishwasher Right before use. No issues so far.

I mean how long were people brewing beer before all of this stuff came about? Even so called cleaners blow anything they had out of the water. And after you sanitize its prone to exposure as soon as you remove it. Its homebrew, not going to be in a sterile environment.

#1 - Why do you assume their beer did not taste like crap a long time ago(compared to our normal standards???) I bet there are 1000's of homebrewers that consistently make substantially better beer than what was being made 100's of years ago. And, I bet one of the primary reasons is sanitation.

#2 - and no offense..... but you say -"no issues so far." How do you know? Brewers tend to "like their beer" no matter what it tastes like. I have been given some horrible, horrible swill that the person claimed "was really good." I am not saying your beer is bad.....obviously, I have no way of knowing. But, If i am being honest, I know that the the beer I brewed 15 years ago was not that great...... but, I thought it was good then. Have you had experienced, unbiased, blind tasting that has told you that you have "no issues so far?"

Soap is not good to use with brewing equipment. Rinsing after sanitizing is not a good practice. Something like PBW or Oxyclean for cleaning and soaking is great - then rinse. Star San for sanitizing, and no rinse afterward is absolutely the best practice in my opinion. I have spent a stupid amt. of money on brewing ...... and if I had to start giving up the things I have - one of the very last things I would give up is my Star San.

 

[singybrue]

I know all about the residues that's why I wash them out and then let them sit in boiling/ hot water.

Aren't you just using(& wasting) a lot more water then? {shrug}

Boom! There's your million dollar idea-Organic plant based brewing sanitizers and cleaners.
No need to thank me, just give me 10% royalties.

 

[CavScout]

#1 - Why do you assume their beer did not taste like crap a long time ago(compared to our normal standards???) I bet there are 1000's of homebrewers that consistently make substantially better beer than what was being made 100's of years ago. And, I bet one of the primary reasons is sanitation.

#2 - and no offense..... but you say -"no issues so far." How do you know? Brewers tend to "like their beer" no matter what it tastes like. I have been given some horrible, horrible swill that the person claimed "was really good." I am not saying your beer is bad.....obviously, I have no way of knowing. But, If i am being honest, I know that the the beer I brewed 15 years ago was not that great...... but, I thought it was good then. Have you had experienced, unbiased, blind tasting that has told you that you have "no issues so far?"

Soap is not good to use with brewing equipment. Rinsing after sanitizing is not a good practice. Something like PBW or Oxyclean for cleaning and soaking is great - then rinse. Star San for sanitizing, and no rinse afterward is absolutely the best practice in my opinion. I have spent a stupid amt. of money on brewing ...... and if I had to start giving up the things I have - one of the very last things I would give up is my Star San.

No complaints and its safe to assume their not being nice when you tell them to slow down so you can preserve some for yourself

 

[Qhrumphf]

#1 - Why do you assume their beer did not taste like crap a long time ago(compared to our normal standards???) I bet there are 1000's of homebrewers that consistently make substantially better beer than what was being made 100's of years ago. And, I bet one of the primary reasons is sanitation.

#2 - and no offense..... but you say -"no issues so far." How do you know? Brewers tend to "like their beer" no matter what it tastes like. I have been given some horrible, horrible swill that the person claimed "was really good." I am not saying your beer is bad.....obviously, I have no way of knowing. But, If i am being honest, I know that the the beer I brewed 15 years ago was not that great...... but, I thought it was good then. Have you had experienced, unbiased, blind tasting that has told you that you have "no issues so far?"

Soap is not good to use with brewing equipment. Rinsing after sanitizing is not a good practice. Something like PBW or Oxyclean for cleaning and soaking is great - then rinse. Star San for sanitizing, and no rinse afterward is absolutely the best practice in my opinion. I have spent a stupid amt. of money on brewing ...... and if I had to start giving up the things I have - one of the very last things I would give up is my Star San.

This, in its entirety.

If what you're doing works for you, who are we to judge? However, if you hand us beer you think is great and we can tell it's contaminated by wild yeast, you better believe we'll let you know it.

There's a reason we all use the cleaners and sanitizers we do. They're proven safe. And they're proven to work. Most of the things you're doing have been proven to have major, if not flat out beer ruining drawbacks.

Now, I recall at the recent National Homebrewer's Conference a guy who brewed some AMAZING sour beers (I don't recall from where), and I recall hearing rumors that he never sanitized ANYTHING. So hey, maybe you've got the perfect combo of wild yeast and critters floating around that things work in your favor, I don't know. But like above, I'll give up a whole bunch of everything I've accumulated before I give up PBW and Star San.

 

[CavScout]

This was mainly my point/ question. Everyone acts like you can't brew a good beer without using toxic sanitizer, but they say its OK in x dosage. How do you and theynknow its OK? I mean smoking doesn't kill you right away, just the long term effects is what gets you. Same with alcohol.

 

[CavScout]

If it's working for you then I guess roll with it. What's the longest you've kept your homebrew? Ever have problems with head retention?

Average is about a month longest is around 6. Depends on the type of beer and the season on how quick it gets consumed. The 6 month one was awhile back butt no issues come to mind.

 

[CavScout]

I've been looking at one step but now everyone says its not a sanitizer, but it was back in the day. So if I use that will I still get the same feedback?

 

[Qhrumphf]

This was mainly my point/ question. Everyone acts like you can't brew a good beer without using toxic sanitizer, but they say its OK in x dosage. How do you and theynknow its OK? I mean smoking doesn't kill you right away, just the long term effects is what gets you. Same with alcohol.

You're dealing with food-grade substances chemically known to degrade down into food-safe compounds (such as Star San when diluted), as opposed to smoking, which is chemically proven to be carcinogenic in the long term.

Apples to oranges.

Water and oxygen are both toxic in high enough concentration with sufficient duration. Keep that in mind.

 

[Braufessor]

Everyone acts like you can't brew a good beer without using toxic sanitizer, but they say its OK in x dosage. How do you and theynknow its OK? I mean smoking doesn't kill you right away, just the long term effects is what gets you. Same with alcohol.

Ummmmmmm....... it is not "toxic" if you use it correctly. Where are you getting the idea that something like star san is toxic? Your antibacterial soap is likely toxic if you drink it straight. All kinds of stuff is "toxic" if you use them improperly. They know it is "ok" because they test it and regulate it. There was actually a couple of very good podcasts that dealt with the "toxicity" of all kinds of brewing related substances - cleansers, metals, plastics, etc....... Not sure if it was on brewing network, or maybe beersmith radio..... anyone remember? It was quite good and revealed how nominal any of the risks were in regard to "toxins."

EASILY, BY FAR - the worst thing in beer for your health is alcohol....... If you are that concerned about "toxic" substances...... quit drinking.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Ummmmmmm....... it is not "toxic" if you use it correctly. Where are you getting the idea that something like star san is toxic? Your antibacterial soap is likely toxic if you drink it straight. All kinds of stuff is "toxic" if you use them improperly. They know it is "ok" because they test it and regulate it. There was actually a couple of very good podcasts that dealt with the "toxicity" of all kinds of brewing related substances - cleansers, metals, plastics, etc....... Not sure if it was on brewing network, or maybe beersmith radio..... anyone remember? It was quite good and revealed how nominal any of the risks were in regard to "toxins."

EASILY, BY FAR - the worst thing in beer for your health is alcohol....... If you are that concerned about "toxic" substances...... quit drinking.

I know Basic Brewing did a toxicology episode recently. Perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

 

[Doctor_M]

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/...Session-03-19-06-Sanitation-w/-Charlie-Talley

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/charlie-talley-five-star-chemicals-notes-brewcasts-58928/

 

[Braufessor]

I know Basic Brewing did a toxicology episode recently. Perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

yep Nov. 14 and dec. 12 - two episodes. Quite interesting and informative.
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2013

 

[LandoLincoln]

Really ever read the warnings on a starsan bottle?

You mean the warnings for undiluted Star San? Yeah.