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F*kin liberal arts A-holes...

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As a Liberal Arts lifer, I had to take science labs and calculus, and I really didn't mind- actually did well in them. Being well-rounded isn't so bad. Your world gets boring without people like us, and our world doesn't work as well without people like you.
 
despite how annoying the class is, you're still in college! So after your annoying classes, you still get to do down the street and play beer pong, then go to the bars, and have no real responsibility!! Enjoy that ****! Think that having an annoying professor you disagree with for a quarter is bad, wait till you get the prick boss for several years! I got lucky with a very cool boss, but they are out there!
I'm an OTA student (still "young" at 28, but I'm 7 years younger than many of my peers. College for students outside of the engineering discipline may be beer pong and pu$$y but for engineering students it's eat, sh*t, study and occasionally sleep. I study FAR less than most of my peers yet study far MORE than the "average" college student.

Nearly all the engineers I ever met were arrogant ********. What are we talking about? :eek:
I'm an arrogant *******. No getting around that.:rockin:.
No offense but those classes are there because if they weren't engineers would be even farther spaced from normal society than we already are. A little liberal education is extremely good for you if you can be open enough to accept it. Also, most of those dumb profs really do know there shat if you show the slightest interest. Remember, it sucks for them to be teaching kids who think their life's passion is BS.

I am a M.E. by the way you civil scum :p

Ahh.. a M.E... Ya mean I'll be calling you when I just can't figure it out?

I recognize the value (on paper) behind the classes. There IS value to some of the subject matter covered in L.A. classes, just many professors don't give a crap anymore.

I had no trouble finding classes that interested me that also met the liberal arts requirements for my engineering degree.



Some people write entire books about themselves and you have trouble squeezing out 500 words? Are you really that boring?

While I'm an arrogant *******, I don't feel like sharing much of myself. Part of it, I suppose, is HAVING to share 500 words about myself when frankly I don't want to.

Part of the issue with classes is that 1. Titles and sylibi sometimes lie and 2. I'm graduating next spring, I have 2 L.A. classes on top of my "normal" 16 engineering credits per term.

I went to engineering school and still managed to have plenty of fun. I also worked 30-40 hours every week while I was in school. Maybe you're just a wuss? :D
.
I know I'm a wuss :D Having a wife and kid while in engineering school (plus just being a pu$$y to begin with) do that to ya.



I know that the purpose of college is to prove to potential employers that you're "trainable." I'm ok with the fact that I WILL take bullcrap classes. I just wish the professors would TRY to DO SOMETHING rather than regurgitating the crappy slides they have used for years (I have this bitch with engr professors too).
 
As a Liberal Arts lifer, I had to take science labs and calculus, and I really didn't mind- actually did well in them. Being well-rounded isn't so bad. Your world gets boring without people like us, and our world doesn't work as well without people like you.

Amen, brotha. Well said. I never finished my degree, but I work in an engineering type field. I can understand how people will say that engineers are socially awkward, as I see it everyday. But on the other hand, Liberal types can be as completely disconnected from the world as most people claim that Engineering types are.

I used to work with a bunch of guys who all throw wrenches around, we didn't always have time to recognize each others feelings, and talking out our problems won't get the machine fixed, regardless of what our HR manager says. And if the machine don't get fixed, I don't have a job.

The world isn't all about social problems. But you can't always fix your problems with your hands.
 
My biggest issue is that there are minimum word requirements for the essays - ones which in reality should be little more than a paragraph. It's hard to write 700 words about a 2500 word document - especially when you get hammered for using too many quotes.

Hell, in this joke of a class we were required to write a 500 word introduction of ourselves. You have any idea how hard that is?

I know how to write essays for these a-holes, and I consistently get A's on essays for L.A. classes, but the point is - I shouldn't HAVE to write these essays - and if I DO have to take the classes, I should LEARN something.

F*kin busywork in a busywork class. Whatever.
My advice to you is to start drinking heavily, while writing papers. It got me through Art History, especially with such gems as Greek Ouzo + Greek Vases = One Hell of a Paper. That one got me a BC.
 
Why does it seem like college is more about pushing the Professors agendas and opinions and less about educating people. The more I hear about college the happier I am I didn't go.
 
I guess for some people, I've got minimum college (read no degree) and still work for a federal law enforcement agency. I really can't see how college would have helped. Not to say I didn't do anything between High School and this job, I'm sure the Military helped as much as college would have.
 
My advice to you is to start drinking heavily, while writing papers. It got me through Art History, especially with such gems as Greek Ouzo + Greek Vases = One Hell of a Paper. That one got me a BC.

Now that ya mention it... That's the only way I got through American literature. I'd get a little buzzed, then read what I was supposed to "understand the hidden meaning" behind. Then I'd get a little more drunk and write a paper. The next morning, I'd get up early and fix the grammatical mistakes that are inevitable when you're drunk typing. To be honest though, I loved that class because the teacher gave a crap. She loved the bullcrap I wrote even though it was garbage ("best she'd ever seen apparently").

So there's an extra credit assignment... I'll do it because I plan on majorly slacking on the final paper (another joke).... What follows is the text of the extra credit assignment link.

This is your only opportunity for extra credit in this class, and it is worth 10 points. In order to earn the 10 points, you must compose a 500 word essay that reviews and examines an historical website. Please make that the website is not an online encyclopedia. If you use an online encyclopedia then you will not get any credit. Similar to all essays in this class it must be word-processed and formatted according to the guidelines under the writing as an historian link.
Here are the steps to complete this assignment. First, find a historical website—not Wikipedia—that deals with a person, issue, or theme covered in this course. You are limited to the time period covered in the course. It can be anything that interests you about U.S. history during the relevant time period. Make sure you pick something that is specific to the United States; remember this is a U.S. history course.
Second, find a website that you like which contains a significant amount of information about your subject. You must record the Uniform Resource Locator (URL aka. Web address) since it will appear in your review of the website. While at the website click around on the links and read the information. You do not want to absorb everything, but you want to be familiar with the web source.
Third, you must compose your 500 word essay reviewing the website. In this review you must write-out the websiteÕs name and URL. In addition, you must give a brief summary of the website and it content. You need to tell me how easy the website was to navigate, noting any improvements or cool innovations. The last part in this step is to critique the reliability of the website. Is the information credible? Why? Why not? What are some key indicators of credibility for a website?
Fourth, submit the essay to Taylor by the due date. There is no extended submission deadline for this assignment. Therefore, it is important that you submit the assignment to me at the correct time. Furthermore, you must submit it in the correct format (Rich Text) and in the correct area (Written Assignments) link in order to receive credit. I will not accept any extra credit that is submitted via e-mail or that is submitted incorrectly.

Really? Someone defend this - PLEASE! Tell me how this is a valuable learning tool...

Note again that I'm not whining about taking a history class - I'm whining about lazy instructors that do nothing but push their own agendas. This instructor happens to be an afro american who's done a lot of research and such on black suffrage... guess what the focus of the course has been?
 
Having to deal with the writing skills of engineers everyday at work (I practice patent law) I can tell you that 90% of engineers can't write worth a damn. Trust me, you need all the practice you can get.

When you graduate, writing skills will likely be more important to your career success than your TI89.


Seriously, I'll sink your concrete canoe with projectiles from my trebuchet.

This is very true. I am an engineer too. Technical Writing & Public Speaking are two prominent weakness of most engineers.

Being good at both will help you a lot in the work place.

I'd try to take either of these two classes if they are available as Liberal Arts credits.

:mug:
 
Now that ya mention it... That's the only way I got through American literature. I'd get a little buzzed, then read what I was supposed to "understand the hidden meaning" behind. Then I'd get a little more drunk and write a paper. The next morning, I'd get up early and fix the grammatical mistakes that are inevitable when you're drunk typing. To be honest though, I loved that class because the teacher gave a crap. She loved the bullcrap I wrote even though it was garbage ("best she'd ever seen apparently").

So there's an extra credit assignment... I'll do it because I plan on majorly slacking on the final paper (another joke).... What follows is the text of the extra credit assignment link.

This is your only opportunity for extra credit in this class, and it is worth 10 points. In order to earn the 10 points, you must compose a 500 word essay that reviews and examines an historical website. Please make that the website is not an online encyclopedia. If you use an online encyclopedia then you will not get any credit. Similar to all essays in this class it must be word-processed and formatted according to the guidelines under the writing as an historian link.
Here are the steps to complete this assignment. First, find a historical website—not Wikipedia—that deals with a person, issue, or theme covered in this course. You are limited to the time period covered in the course. It can be anything that interests you about U.S. history during the relevant time period. Make sure you pick something that is specific to the United States; remember this is a U.S. history course.
Second, find a website that you like which contains a significant amount of information about your subject. You must record the Uniform Resource Locator (URL aka. Web address) since it will appear in your review of the website. While at the website click around on the links and read the information. You do not want to absorb everything, but you want to be familiar with the web source.
Third, you must compose your 500 word essay reviewing the website. In this review you must write-out the websiteÕs name and URL. In addition, you must give a brief summary of the website and it content. You need to tell me how easy the website was to navigate, noting any improvements or cool innovations. The last part in this step is to critique the reliability of the website. Is the information credible? Why? Why not? What are some key indicators of credibility for a website?
Fourth, submit the essay to Taylor by the due date. There is no extended submission deadline for this assignment. Therefore, it is important that you submit the assignment to me at the correct time. Furthermore, you must submit it in the correct format (Rich Text) and in the correct area (Written Assignments) link in order to receive credit. I will not accept any extra credit that is submitted via e-mail or that is submitted incorrectly.

Really? Someone defend this - PLEASE! Tell me how this is a valuable learning tool...

Note again that I'm not whining about taking a history class - I'm whining about lazy instructors that do nothing but push their own agendas. This instructor happens to be an afro american who's done a lot of research and such on black suffrage... guess what the focus of the course has been?
lol Do a paper on how the Nation of Islam is the black equivalent of the white supremacist movement. He'll love it.
 
No offense but those classes are there because if they weren't engineers would be even farther spaced from normal society than we already are. A little liberal education is extremely good for you if you can be open enough to accept it. Also, most of those dumb profs really do know there shat if you show the slightest interest. Remember, it sucks for them to be teaching kids who think their life's passion is BS.

I am a M.E. by the way you civil scum :p

I am an EE but my degree is in Physics and this is what I have to say: If it can't be expressed it terms of an equation it isn't farkiing worth writing.;)

When eye started coleg I could knot evn speel engunear. Now eye are 1.
 
Several years ago I had to write a paper about feminism for an LA class. Well, my opinion must have been maligned with the prof. and received a horrible grade. I had pulled As and Bs on all the previous assignments, post paper were all D's and F's. I ended up withdrawing from the class. Learned an important lesson that day. So suck up and write about what ever makes them tick, even if you do not agree. Classes became a little easier after that.
 
I had to do the same thing when I went to OSU. You just have to find classes that interest you that fill the requirements. Oh and like others have said stop b!tching at least your in college, try having a job that you hated for the last 4 years only to end up unemployed with no direction ( I speak from experiance).
 
I had to do the same thing when I went to OSU. You just have to find classes that interest you that fill the requirements. Oh and like others have said stop b!tching at least your in college, try having a job that you hated for the last 4 years only to end up unemployed with no direction ( I speak from experiance).

Meh... Just bitching to bitch.

Because of scheduling constraints, I have to choose LA classes based on schedule, not content. May change for my cultural diversity class but who knows (that'll be spring term I thinks... the best time to take LA classes out at OSU because of the ... scenery).

I know to play the instructors game - while I'd love to be honest about my feelings on things, I know how butthurt the average LA instructor gets when your opinions differ from theirs. The class I talked about earlier in the thread - american lit I think - I thought the stories were without meaning, but I figured out a way to get through the class (drinking) and the teacher bought it.

I know working isn't butterflies and roses - I've worked more than my share of crap jobs with crap bosses (try 2 1/2 years as data management for a telemarketing firm with a worse than average boss for the industry and multiple sex offender co workers). I'm fully aware that I'll work for crap bosses in industry (suck it up and look for something else). I'm kind of expecting to be offered a FT position at graduation at the place I've interned for the last two years. I'll probably accept because while the pay will kind of suck, it's a very laid back place to work.

Most importantly - it's the weekend, why the HELL am I up at 6:30? Can't go back to bed or it'll be at least 10 before I roll my ass outta bed. Grr.
 
I guess I'll pony up as a liberal arts Ahole.

I went to a small, private, religious Liberal Arts school.

I even got myself a B.A. in Cartography.

I hated that place with the fires of a thousand hells.

The colege was over 60% female, so there was plenty of eye candy, but as a group they were the most stuck up pretentious bunch of b!itches spending daddies money & basically being super stupid. I am freinds with exactly one person I went to college right now.

I also graduated with a B.S. in Enviornmential Science, and took a job as a Firefighter & am about the most conservative person I know, so I guess my choice of college didn't totally warp me. That place sure pissed me off tho.
 
Allright, been watching this thread for a bit, biting my tongue, but it's about time to jump in, methinks.

Learned an important lesson that day. So suck up and write about what ever makes them tick, even if you do not agree. Classes became a little easier after that.

Ok, so here's the thing. Did you (not necessarily you in particular, CodeRage, just you as representative of this position) ever think that perhaps the reason professors didn't give you such great grades when you "disagrees with them" was maybe less a function of your disagreeing with them than of your not being such a good writer? That maybe your "divergent views" just weren't expressed so thoughtfully, carefully or clearly? That you didn't back up your points with evidence or argumentation, but just assumed that the prof didn't like your paper because it disagreed with him or her?

I'm happy to out myself here: I'm currently finishing up my PhD in a very liberal arts field, and have taught liberal arts classes in a major research university for years. And while I can't speak for any other prof, I can say with certainty that I am THRILLED to have students disagree with me, both in class and in their papers. Nothing makes me more excited than to read a paper that takes issue with my views in a smart and articulate way, that points out flaws in my thinking and suggest other ways of framing or solving a problem. The way I see it, my goal as a teacher isn't to produce a room full of people who agree with me, but to produce a room full of people who can learn to think through their own ideas in a careful and intelligent way. A plurality of opinions is the bedrock of a healthy democracy, IMO, and I'm happy to contribute to this state.

The thing is, however, that almost every semester, I get one or two kids in class who come in on the first day assuming that they know everything about me - my politics, my outlook on life, my views on teaching - and make it their mission to demonstrate how "closed minded" and "not open to different opinions" I am. It's kids like these whose papers are often filled with wild, outlandish rants. And I generally give these papers bad grades. Why? NOT BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH ME, but because they make no sense: there's generally little to no evidence actually offered in support of the position they hold, they're poorly organized, they don't make a compelling argument, they're often filled with grammar mistakes, etc.

****, I couldn't care less whether you want to argue that the Nation of Islam is "the black equivalent of the white supremacist movement," or that climate change isn't true, or that the moon landing was a hoax. Go for it! I'd loved to be convinced that any of these things is the case (or at least to read a good argument in that direction). BUT, the mere fact that you're claiming that it is doesn't mean that you've written a good paper that makes a good argument. After all, it's stupidly easy to come up with a wild claim that ruffles people's feathers. Every f'ing homeless person on the corner can do that. But backing up a claim with evidence, organizing that evidence in a logical way, using that evidence to lead to a clear conclusion, making sure the writing is good, etc. is a much different proposition. And when I give students bad grades on their papers, it's because they haven't done any of these things, not because the claim itself disagrees with my views of the world.

Of course, students never want to believe this, and always assume that I give their incoherent rants D's because I'm some liberal weenie who can't handle a student who expresses views that may run contrary to mine (even though most students probably have absolutely NO idea what my political views are).

So go ahead and write that paper! ****, PM me and I'll even proofread it for you. But before you go blaming a prof or even the discipline as a whole, at least make sure it's well-written (since, as many on this thread have pointed out, being able to write well and communicate effectively will help you out in the future, no matter what job you end up having).

Sorry for the minor rant; just felt the need to defend my discipline a bit.
 
Here's the thing pale: the "average" LA professor grades a paper harder if it disagrees with their closed minded views. I have no idea, of course, if you're one of those professors. What I do know, however, is that most of what I've handed in to LA professors has been, in my humble oppinion, utter crap. I generally receive A's on these papers because I don't rock the boat and disagree with the instructor. No evidence of my point of view is nescessary because it's the view of the instructor.

When I've been bold and clearly disagreed with an instructor in a paper I've consistently received far lower marks than I previously had from the same instructor. Keep in mind that if I disagree with an instructor I'm careful to clearly and carefully state my view and back it up. I proofread and have others do the same (such as my English teacher sister)- yet I get slammed. Result: I play agreeing student and earn high marks.

You may be different (I hope you are) but most in your profession are not. My final paper for the class in question will be utter trash - but I wont rock the boat so I'll get a decent grade. If I wanted to rock the boat I'd actually have to put effort into the class, and to be frank it's not worth it.

To clarify my position: not all LA'ers are elitist a*holes - but too many LA teachers are, and it really does a disservice to the discipline.

Allright, been watching this thread for a bit, biting my tongue, but it's about time to jump in, methinks.



Ok, so here's the thing. Did you (not necessarily you in particular, CodeRage, just you as representative of this position) ever think that perhaps the reason professors didn't give you such great grades when you "disagrees with them" was maybe less a function of your disagreeing with them than of your not being such a good writer? That maybe your "divergent views" just weren't expressed so thoughtfully, carefully or clearly? That you didn't back up your points with evidence or argumentation, but just assumed that the prof didn't like your paper because it disagreed with him or her?

I'm happy to out myself here: I'm currently finishing up my PhD in a very liberal arts field, and have taught liberal arts classes in a major research university for years. And while I can't speak for any other prof, I can say with certainty that I am THRILLED to have students disagree with me, both in class and in their papers. Nothing makes me more excited than to read a paper that takes issue with my views in a smart and articulate way, that points out flaws in my thinking and suggest other ways of framing or solving a problem. The way I see it, my goal as a teacher isn't to produce a room full of people who agree with me, but to produce a room full of people who can learn to think through their own ideas in a careful and intelligent way. A plurality of opinions is the bedrock of a healthy democracy, IMO, and I'm happy to contribute to this state.

The thing is, however, that almost every semester, I get one or two kids in class who come in on the first day assuming that they know everything about me - my politics, my outlook on life, my views on teaching - and make it their mission to demonstrate how "closed minded" and "not open to different opinions" I am. It's kids like these whose papers are often filled with wild, outlandish rants. And I generally give these papers bad grades. Why? NOT BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH ME, but because they make no sense: there's generally little to no evidence actually offered in support of the position they hold, they're poorly organized, they don't make a compelling argument, they're often filled with grammar mistakes, etc.

****, I couldn't care less whether you want to argue that the Nation of Islam is "the black equivalent of the white supremacist movement," or that climate change isn't true, or that the moon landing was a hoax. Go for it! I'd loved to be convinced that any of these things is the case (or at least to read a good argument in that direction). BUT, the mere fact that you're claiming that it is doesn't mean that you've written a good paper that makes a good argument. After all, it's stupidly easy to come up with a wild claim that ruffles people's feathers. Every f'ing homeless person on the corner can do that. But backing up a claim with evidence, organizing that evidence in a logical way, using that evidence to lead to a clear conclusion, making sure the writing is good, etc. is a much different proposition. And when I give students bad grades on their papers, it's because they haven't done any of these things, not because the claim itself disagrees with my views of the world.

Of course, students never want to believe this, and always assume that I give their incoherent rants D's because I'm some liberal weenie who can't handle a student who expresses views that may run contrary to mine (even though most students probably have absolutely NO idea what my political views are).

So go ahead and write that paper! ****, PM me and I'll even proofread it for you. But before you go blaming a prof or even the discipline as a whole, at least make sure it's well-written (since, as many on this thread have pointed out, being able to write well and communicate effectively will help you out in the future, no matter what job you end up having).

Sorry for the minor rant; just felt the need to defend my discipline a bit.
 
Palefire,
It has been so long since I wrote that paper I could not tell you the tone it was written in. I do remember that I was not intentionally arguing for the sake of arguing. The truth is I had no clue as to what her political views on the topic stood. Though, it would be safe to presume that she was pro-feminism to some degree. My writing abilities have certainly improved since then but, I couldn't explain the sudden change in my grades after that one incident. After all, the quality of my writing had not degraded since the beginning of the semester where I was earning a fair grade.

Recently I had taken a on line psych class and after a little research I discovered my professor was a member of the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute. This explained the racial inequality undertone of all of our assignments. I was a little frustrated because I felt that what was supposed to be a psych class had become a study of minority disparagement. For the remainder of the class I was very careful choosing topics for papers and the tone I wrote them in.

If all professors were alike, and all had the ability to appreciate a conflicting vantage point life would be good. However, professors are people too and subject to their own personal biases. So I ask, why roll the dice? Being a student with a full time career, I do not have the time or resources to risk failing a class due to a conflict of opinion.

This does relate to real world experience. Be careful of what you say around your superiors and supervisors. What is said today may very well dictate your circumstances a few years from now. For example, had you shot your self in the foot a year ago today you could be unemployed/ laid off, or stuck in a job with no mobility available in the job market.

I am not saying that one should be a push over but, pick your battles. The ones you do pick better matter and have direct influence on your current situation. Arguing with the conservative president of your company why gay marriage should be allowed is not going to persuade their opinion of the argument nor is it going to help his personal opinion of you.

PS. I thought it funny you quoted me, " you 'disagrees with them,'" with an implied grammatical error, when I had not said that at all. ;)

No rant here, and I can appreciate where you are coming from as an instructor.

If what you say is true though, I would be delighted to have a LA instructors like yourself.
 
GOGO NESCAC!

trinityseal.JPG


I just wish I could do another 4 years.
 
Engineering grad. We used to call Liberal Arts "Arts & Crafts". Hey, I'll joke and say your degree is in burger-flipping, but I got nothing again' ya. Turns out 90% of what you learn that makes you good at what you do is learned on the job.
 
Palefire,

........... I can appreciate where you are coming from as an instructor.

If what you say is true though, I would be delighted to have a LA instructors like yourself.


Palefire - I agree with Coderage's comments. I would tend to think you are in the minority. I wish more would have the same attitude as you!
 
Any subject that contains the word "Art" is for fairies and gnomes. It has no place in a well organised society. Engineering is for the solid minded people of our world. They are the builders that create our environment that we rely on to thrive, reproduce, and tread the trail in the pursuit of happiness.

Art, liberalism, and the free thinking it promotes is just a diversion designed to hinder the engineers in manufacturing the perfect society in which engineers can attain ergonomic design Nirvana.

Engineers can always stand back and smell the coffee.......But thanks to their proficient engineering it will always be Starbucks.

Artists can produce beauty of thought, but without the infrastructure created by the engineers, no person will ever see this beauty.
 
PF,

I, too, am an engineering student (Michigan State University College of Mechanical Engineering, 2008). I see, and have experienced, both sides of this discussion.

My first liberal arts class was contemporary american literature, freshman year. The professor was quite well known and did a fantastic job. He was even handed, expected attendance and graded based on how well you backed up your points. He didn't give you a freebee because he already knew the citation for the point you were making and agreed with it; he pushed you to properly formulate your argument, whatever it was.

My final liberal arts class was on 18th century-present latin america. The professor demonstrated the distant end of the spectrum from the previously described professor. If you did not regurgitate her points on the abuses of the indiginous peoples by europeans and their continued exploitation through the present day then you failed. I squeeked through with a 2.0.

Now, perhaps she shouldn't have been teaching that semester. She was ineffective and took 2 or 3 weeks off to visit latin america (supposedly for research).

The problem, I think, is the duality in a professor's life. Their work, and what gains them accolades and financial success, is far above and away from what they have to teach to gain support from the university. Not everyone who grasps Latin American history or Fluid Mechanics (another story for another day) on the doctoral level is fit to be a teacher.

EDIT: For background, the Contemporary American Literature class was 150-200 people in an auditorium and the Latin America class was in a class room with 30-40 people.
 
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