EZ Water Adjustment spreadsheet

[ajdelange]

Please understand that this is my take based on my palate, preferences and experience with mostly lagers (which is what I brew most). I have seen posts on this forum advising that with sulfate more is better. I feel just the opposite but sulfate is a stylistic ion. If you like it, use it, if you don't, avoid it.

When I started doing lagers I used my well water which measures about 29 mg/L. For a highly hopped Bohemian Pils that's too much (IMO) - rendered the beer rough. So I guess I'd say "low" is below 15, moderate 15- 40, medium 40 - 80, 80-160 high and above 160 (noting that I have seen reports for Burton water ranging from 450- 820) very high.

I think you could safely brew any ale with 50 ppm but I'll note that a friend told me she liked my ale (brewed with 29 ppm) better that the similar ale which is coming out of the newest brewpub in the area because mine was smoother. He's using Corps of Engineers water which runs, on average, 50 and he may be adding gypsum.

 

[-TH-]

For those of you following this thread, version 2.0 is now available and is quite different. Check it out here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-water-calculator-2-0-a-195940/

 

[JakeFegely]

First post by a new brewer exploring a mostly all grain topic.....

I brewed my fourth batch on Friday - a DFH 60 clone. I'm looking for lots of hop flavor. Today I got my water report from Ward as follows:

pH 8.9
Na 25
Ca 20
Mg 5
SO4-S 7 (adjusted to 21 as SO4 per post in this thread)
Cl 32
Carbonate 6
Bicarbonate 40
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 43

I have 2 questions (or I'll try to limit it to 2)
1) Since I am extract brewing with steeped spec grains, should I even be worrying about this? I have no idea of the water profile used to make the extract. Those minerals should all still be in the extract.
2) Regardless of the answer to #1, it seems my water is very low in Ca Mg and SO4, particularly for a strong IPA. Wouldn't a future brew benefit from some increases in those ions?

Okay - I must ask one more question. Would anyone ever consider adding some of these salts 4 or 5 days after pitching the yeast? At what time do they affect hop character/perception? I won't dry hop for another 10 days at least. Will my current batch be disappointing because of the water profile? (yes, I know that was 3 more questions).

Thanks,
Jake

 

[weiht]

I just downloaded the file and may i say that its EXCELLENT!!!

It would be great to include maybe a selection for different water profiles in terms of region or beer styles, and later maybe some calculations made out for us about how much gypsum or salts to add...

kinda like this http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html

 

[afr0byte]

I just downloaded the file and may i say that its EXCELLENT!!!

It would be great to include maybe a selection for different water profiles in terms of region or beer styles, and later maybe some calculations made out for us about how much gypsum or salts to add...

kinda like this http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html

If you downloaded 2.0...be aware that 3.0 is available

 

[weiht]

Yes i got the v3 and its a killer... Am i right to say that if im aiming for a mash ph of 5.2, it would be 5.55 at room temperature after adding the 0.35 adjustment?

Does all the salts added to the mash carry over to the kettle and finished beer? Or do some of it remain in the MT with the grains?

Am I right to say if i have added the salts in the mash and sparge wate, and I only need to make the very slight adjustments in the kettle to hit my tgt water profile if needed?

Maybe a field for sodium chloride?

One more qns, how long do you guys leave the mash to settle before taking a ph reading? I read some places which says 15-20mins, but wouldnt it be too late to make adjustments when 50-75% of conversion have taken place?

I'm loving this excel file ALOT...

 

[ajdelange]

Yes i got the v3 and its a killer... Am i right to say that if im aiming for a mash ph of 5.2, it would be 5.55 at room temperature after adding the 0.35 adjustment?

You should shoot for a mash pH of 5.4 - 5.5 at room temperature which is the temperature at which it is measured. It is unlikely that the fall back with increased temperature would be so great as to result in a drop of 0.35 at mash-in temperature.

Does all the salts added to the mash carry over to the kettle and finished beer? Or do some of it remain in the MT with the grains?

In beers mashed with hard water calcium precipitates as the phosphate (from the malt). This is responsible for relatively lower pH of beers mashed with hard water.

Am I right to say if i have added the salts in the mash and sparge wate, and I only need to make the very slight adjustments in the kettle to hit my tgt water profile if needed?

If you are going to the trouble to emulate an actual profile (which is seldom justified and even less often done properly) then you should do nothing more than that unless you know what the brewery did with that water. Assuming, for example, that you have emulated Munich water you would decarbonate it before brewing Helles because that is how Helles is brewed. For dunkles you might not relying on the acids from the dark malts to combat the bicarb. You shouldn't add salts to the kettle unless you have a particular purpose in mind such as knowledge that the brewery who produces a beer you are trying to clone makes kettle additions.

One more qns, how long do you guys leave the mash to settle before taking a ph reading? I read some places which says 15-20mins, but wouldnt it be too late to make adjustments when 50-75% of conversion have taken place?

Mash pH is generally stable within a few minutes with the exception being mashes that are acidified with acidulated malt (sauermalz). Sauermalz seems to take about 15 - 20 min. to stablilize pH. Yes, there is a problem with discovering that the pH is too high because you didn't add enough sauermalz and then adding more 20 minutes into the mash. Yes, much of the conversion has taken place at less than ideal pH meaning that the enzymes have not been able to work in their optimum* range. But when you make the correction you bring them into the optimum range and they are, at least, able to finish up. The real benefit from an observation in which the pH isn't where you want it to be is in subsequent brews of the same beer. Your notes will show that pH was, for example, 0.1 too high the last time you brewed a particular beer so you should add an extra 1% sauermalz this time.

*The word "optimum" should never be used without specifying what the criterion of optimality is. In this case the optimum pH is the pH which produces the best beer as the pH's we shoot for are not the ones at which any one of the many enzymes performs best but rather the best compromise.

 

[weiht]

ajdelange - thx for your prompt and detailed reply... I read in alot of places online that the difference in the mash temp and room temp affects the ph reading by abt 0.35, that is why i use 5.55 which is the 5.2 target and that 0.35.

thanks again

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, that number is bandied about a lot. I am not prepared to sacrifice a pH electrode to find out what the actual pH is at sachharification or mashout temperatures but what I have done is measure the slope at beta glucan and protein rest temperatures. That measured slope is less than what would be required to give a drop of 0.35 at sachharification temperature.

Of course we must ask "What is mash temperature." If you do a single step infusion it's pretty clear what it is. But if multiple rests are done on the way to saccharification temp. then it is not so clear. Just one more reason why it is best to standardize to room temperature.

 

[weiht]

OK, a question.. For lactic acid field, is that liquid or powdered? The only lactic i can get is in powdered form, and I'm not sure how much to add into the mash...

It say i need to add 1ml, so how should i add the powder by weight?

 

[ajdelange]

Most lactic acid solutions are 88% w/w. One mL of an 88% solution has a weight of 1.3 g and so contains 0.88*1.3 = 1.14 grams of the acid

 

[whiskeyjack]

Ty for the water spreadsheet, after watching bobby_m on youtube it seems ez

 

[anicola]

Most lactic acid solutions are 88% w/w. One mL of an 88% solution has a weight of 1.3 g and so contains 0.88*1.3 = 1.14 grams of the acid

Wouldn't 1ml of an 88% solution contain .88g of the solute? If I remember my high school chemistry ( 1965- a long time ago) , to make 100ml of an 88% solution we would weigh 88g of solute and dissolve in enough distilled water to make 100ml.

 

[ajdelange]

To make an 88% w/w solution you would put 88 grams of lactic acid in a beaker and add 12 grams of DI water. This would give you 100/1.3 mL of solution.

 

[anicola]

Right U R! Lactic Acid 88% is w/w not w/v. Thanks for the heads up. Now I need to recalc my Ascorbic acid dihydrate grams to Lactic Acid 88% mils equivalency