last night I brewed a pale ale. I used 7lbs of extract, added 3 at the beginning of the boil and 4 with 20 min left to the boil. I added my hops at 60-10-0 intervals. And I'll dry hop it with citra during secondary. Well first of all, is this extract addition recommendable? Ive heard its good for paler beers. And also I used a liquid yeast with no starter required. Well, it was getting late and I had to work the next day so I pitched the yeast before i could cool it down below 75. This specific yeast says just keep it above 70. Its a sierra nevada recommended yeast. When I go home from work today it was bubbleing. I was worried about killing off the yeast but it appears its working. Does anyone know if the batch is still ok? If anyone knows anything about these two questions, that would be awesome.
extract, yeast questions
- Thread starter kphipps06
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
The two separate additions of malt for extract batches maximize the hop isomerization into your beer. If you add it all on the beginning you can't extract all of the alpha acids the beer requires.
What temp did you pitch at? As long as it's under 100f your yeast is still alive. You may have some more esters because of it but you'll be fine.
What temp did you pitch at? As long as it's under 100f your yeast is still alive. You may have some more esters because of it but you'll be fine.
its fine and you dont have to secondary this if you dont want. Just dry hop it the last week before you bottle. The yeast are fine and know what to do, but you may want to leave it a week longer than you planned due to pitching at a higher temp the yeast can generate 5-10 deg more heat from fermentation if you have a temp guage you may have seen this.
Dont be alarmed when it stopps bubbeling it doesnt mean its finished,it needs to clean up and condition.Dont be alarmed if it doesnt ever bubble either.
Dont be alarmed when it stopps bubbeling it doesnt mean its finished,it needs to clean up and condition.Dont be alarmed if it doesnt ever bubble either.
awesome. Thanks guys. Yeast was def under 100. About the extract I didnt understand the terminology. Is it a good or a bad thing what I did?
It sounds like what you did was essentially a late extract addition. As far as I am concerned this is preferable. Since I started doing that, my extract beers have become exponentially better.
I don't quite know how to interpret your question on extract though. Dividing your extract into two parts? Yes, this is good.
Also, I support dry hopping in the primary. No need to secondary a Pale Ale.
I don't quite know how to interpret your question on extract though. Dividing your extract into two parts? Yes, this is good.
Also, I support dry hopping in the primary. No need to secondary a Pale Ale.
sorry if these questions seem redundant. i started brewing a few months ago. and this is the third batch i have using my own recipe variations. i am wondering if adding a third or so extract in the beginning, then the rest towards the last 15-20 min is the correct way to properly brew a pale ale. and i am still trying to differentiate between a pale ale and an IPA. and what the major differences are when i drink them and what they are in the brewing process. I am the only one i personally know that brews, so its a major self learning process.
I personally add 20 to 30% of the extract at the beginning of the boil, then the rest at flameout. Extract has already been boiled once, during it's manufacture. It doesn't need to be boiled again, only pasteurized. You can pasteurize it at anything above 140 F degrees, for about 10 minutes. I add the final hops at 0 minutes, turn off the burner, then add the extract. Let is sit 10 minutes then start the cooldown process. It will lose some heat during the addition of the extract, but I've never had it go below 140F.
As far as the relationship between a Pale Ale and an IPA goes, an IPA means India Pale Ale, so it IS a Pale Ale. I prefer APA, American Pale Ale, which mainly means it uses American hops, my favorite being Cascade. You can Google the differences.
From what you've given, I don't see a problem. Next time you'll know to pitch the yeast a little cooler.... but sounds like it's working fine.
As far as the relationship between a Pale Ale and an IPA goes, an IPA means India Pale Ale, so it IS a Pale Ale. I prefer APA, American Pale Ale, which mainly means it uses American hops, my favorite being Cascade. You can Google the differences.
From what you've given, I don't see a problem. Next time you'll know to pitch the yeast a little cooler.... but sounds like it's working fine.
windbreaker123
Well-Known Member
Bubbles ARE GOOOODD. KIt I take it ? If it came with it you must use !!!!! Your fine all is good and so are BUBBLESSSS!
no this isnt a kit. ive only used a kit on my first batch. ever since ive looked at recipes and tried to differentiate, smell, and see what i like. so ive tried some ipa's or apa's and this is my first pale ale with a late extract
windbreaker123
Well-Known Member
Sorry I didn't mean to offend by saying it was a kit. But that everything sounded ok and it would be fine.
vinoterp
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2011
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 1
Is there any guidelines to doing this? Like half and half? I'll definitely give it a try for the next batch of beer I make.
See my last post. There isn't a definitive guideline, but what I do works, and is within the normal 'late extract' instructions. If you do a 'late extract addition' search on this board, you'll get quite a bit of information. Basically, it is more recommended with partial boils due to better hop utilization. I do it with full boils in my brewery (4 bbls), but with partial boils at home (5 gallons). Either way, it works well in keeping the SRM lower (lighter color). Hop utilization doesn't vary too much, probably less than 10% so don't believe Brewsmith on the 'add after boil' check. It does, however make your beer a bit more bitter, but the most significant effect it has it a lighter color.
Even Jamil and John Palmer have come around as evidenced in their BrewStrong episode: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/698 This episode cover specifically Kits, but explains the advantages of late extract additions.
Even Jamil and John Palmer have come around as evidenced in their BrewStrong episode: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/698 This episode cover specifically Kits, but explains the advantages of late extract additions.
I added all of my DME/LME's at the end of a boil for a "hop tea" as they do in Australia. I got an amber color,& 4.8%ABV. I'll be taste testing my 1st ones next week Friday to see how this version of late extract goes.
I thought about using half the DME to do the 15min late hop addition. I wanted to see how this version works 1st. There's a lot of conflicting ideas out there. I just figured I'd experiment with it...
I thought about using half the DME to do the 15min late hop addition. I wanted to see how this version works 1st. There's a lot of conflicting ideas out there. I just figured I'd experiment with it...
joetothemo
Well-Known Member
Do you know your current temp? When I pitched warm in the past (74f), the fermentation took off so fast that the beer never cooled down to room temps (65f ambient). It increased significantly (topped out at 78f) due to the exothermic property of fermentation...(makes its own heat from the inside out).
You should probably check that temp today and make sure you aren't losing control of your fermentation.
You should probably check that temp today and make sure you aren't losing control of your fermentation.
Basically you want a thin wort when you add your hops because it allows the most amount of bitterness to be extracted from the hops. If You add all the extract at the beginning you get a thick wort and difficulty extracting that bitterness (e.g. Alpha acids). One would question why you don't just boil water instead and add all of the dme/lme at the end. Well the malt extract at the beginning changes the ph of the water for maximum efficiency of extraction of the alpha acids. Not quite sure of the percentage though.
awesome. ive brewed another batch since this post and i added exactly 1/3 of my DME to the 60 min. along with bittering hops (i used citra- im experimenting) then the hop additions, then the last 2/3 during the 20 min
Cool. DME will work for your whole brew although they suggest using LME at the end to prevent boil overs. Any problems there?
Who recommends LME over DME? They are both extract. One is not more prone to boil over than another, especially if you add at flameout.
i did get a boilover this weekend. i brewed the same batch with slightly diffrent hop additions. after i added the DME during the last 15, i turned my back for 2 seconds and i got a heaping mess of sticky boilover. but i do prefer DME over LME because, from what ive read, there is more extract lost in the LME. DME is more concentrated. either way, its expensive and i am looking forward to the day when i know how to do all grain, along with calculating all my own numbers to tweak the beer how i want it. baby steps i guess
DME is way more prone to boil overs. Especially because you don't add it at flame out, it's generally added with in 15 minutes of flame out. See the last post by OP...
DME is not more prone to boil overs regardless of the anecdote. It boiled over because he wasn't watching it. Period.
Extract whether dry or liquid has already been boiled. Doesn't need it again. Only needs to be pasteurized at 140 degrees for 10 minutes.
It's not 'generally' added at 15.... it can be added at anytime. The OP chose to add it at 15 minutes... but that didn't cause the boil over.
I've got an anecdote too...
I've been doing this for years, decades in fact, and I've never had a boil over. I've used both kinds of extract and have not had one be more prone to boil over than another. I've not had one require more 'attention' than the other, but you cannot turn your back on a boiling pot. (Could be that I just jinxed myself for saying that though.)
Extract whether dry or liquid has already been boiled. Doesn't need it again. Only needs to be pasteurized at 140 degrees for 10 minutes.
It's not 'generally' added at 15.... it can be added at anytime. The OP chose to add it at 15 minutes... but that didn't cause the boil over.
I've got an anecdote too...
I've been doing this for years, decades in fact, and I've never had a boil over. I've used both kinds of extract and have not had one be more prone to boil over than another. I've not had one require more 'attention' than the other, but you cannot turn your back on a boiling pot. (Could be that I just jinxed myself for saying that though.)
hector
Well-Known Member
One important Reason to boil the Wort is to get rid of "DMS" and as far as I know DMS has "Half Life" . That means that the Mass of DMS would be half after an exact period of time and it is Temperature dependent .
DME is produced industrially by boiling the Wort " Under Vacuum Condition " , so that the boiling point is reduced and not all the DMS would fly out of the Wort .
Therefore , even DME MUST be boiled but perhaps not so long as 60 Min. or 90 Minutes .
Hector
Except for form, DME and LME are the same. First I've heard of DMS being a problem in DME and not LME. Actually it's the first I've heard of DMS being a problem in any extract. Extract is wort, ready for the fermenter, just condensed. It only needs to be pasteurized. The boiling you refer to is part of the condensing process that takes place after the production of the wort. Seems you have some but not all the information.
"All malt extract" to quote Palmer and Zainasheff from 'Brewing Classic Styles', "starts out in the brewhouse just like beer. To make malt extract, the wort is transferred to evaporators after boiling instead of to a fermenter." "Manufacturers of malt extract boil the wort to coagulate the hot break proteins before running it to the evaporators. The wort is dehydrated to 80 percent colids to make a shelf-stable product without the use of preservatives. By boiling off the water under a partial vacuum, browning reactions are reduced, and the original flavor and color of the wort is preserved."
They then go on to explain the difference between LME and DME. "Malt extract is sold in both liquid (syrup) and powdered forms. The syrups are about 20 percent water.... [edited out weight conversion info] .... Dry malt extract is produced by heating and spraying the liquid extract from an atomizer in a tall, heated chamber. The small droplets dry and cool rapidly as they settle to the floor. DME is identical to LME except for the additional dehydration to about 2 percent moisture. DME is typically not hopped."
I agree with your post that you don't have to worry about DMS in extract batches as a rule, and also that neither is more likely than the other to boil over. Extract has been heat processed already, and doesn't need to boil. Hops of course do need to boil so that the hops oils can isomerize, but that doesn't have anything to do with the extract at all.
This isn't quite right - adding malt extract at the beginning does not result in maximum alpha acid isomerization. Boiling the hops in plain water would yield much better hops utilization, primarily because the pH of average tap water is around 8 and the pH of the average wort is much lower (depending on the original pH of the water, types of grains used, etc.). However, alpha acids will not be the only thing extracted from the hops in a high pH solution - most likely you will extract tannins as well, which will cause an astringent off-flavor to your beers. That's why you should add some extract to the beginning of the boil, not for hops utilization.
Similar threads
