Extract-Only English Barleywine Assistance

[sailorsam]

Hey there,

This is my first post - novice extract brewer here who has a couple batches/books under his belt.

I could surely use some advice, though...

I've been thinking about making my first high gravity beer, but I am not sure what the end result will be like.

The concept is this: simple extract-only English Barleywine, matured on Port-soaked Hungarian oak cubes, to be aged in bottle for at least six months before consumption...

I have limitations, however:
-Small stovetop necessitates partial boils of 2.5 gallon / 10 litre volume
-Inexperience with partial mashing
-Lack of aeration equipment (I vigorously shake the carboy - I know, hard and inefficient)

So can anybody give me their opinions on this basic recipe template?



4.082 kg Muntons Light DME (9.0#)
0.500 kg Crystal Malt 70-80L (1.1#)
*90 Minute Partial Boil - No Late Extract Addition

60 Min Magnum 84 g (3oz) @ est. 12% AA
15 Min EKG 28 g (1oz) @ est. 5% AA
05 Min EKG 28 g (1oz) @ est. 5% AA
*All Pellets

Safale S-04 x 2 packets (22g)

Hopville figures 1.085 OG/1.023 FG for 8.3% ABV
Estimated 55 IBU (Tinseth) 0.65 BU:GU Ratio

Any guesses as to how this would taste over time?

I have concerns that the Crystal Malt will make it sickly sweet, that the abundance of light extract will make it one dimensional, and also that my yeast will cop out on me...

I want to keep things simple, however, like using 3lb DME increments so I don't have leftovers or using a dry yeast strain so I don't have to make a starter...

All this and I haven't even ventured into the unfamiliar oak aging territory!

Any thoughts out there?
I'd appreciate your comments...

 

[sailorsam]

If I may also add...

Do you think the flavours of Port would work well in a Barleywine, or would one be better off with an Imperial Stout or Belgian Strong Ale of some kind?

I honestly just love Port and thought a jazzed up Barleywine would be nice...

 

[Calder]

1.085 is not so high. S-04 should be OK with it.

.500 kg (Crystal) is only 1.1 lbs, not 1.6 lbs.

Recipe looks OK.

Only suggestion I would give would be to replace 1 lb of DME with 1 lb of table sugar. It will help dry it out a little.

 

[sailorsam]

Thanks, Calder.

I wouldn't have any worries about the yeast except for my lack of an effective oxygenation method. Shaking usually works out okay, but I haven't brewed much over 1.060 so I didn't know what to expect...

I was thinking about adding some sugar at the expense of the crystal malt, but it's probably a better idea to sub out the DME like you said.

In your experience, would there be any flavour benefits to an even longer boil after 90 minutes, or would I just be spending an extra half hour over a very hot stove?

 

[nasa258e]

Looks delicious, but a bit too happy to be an ENGLISH barleywine

 

[Calder]

In your experience, would there be any flavour benefits to an even longer boil after 90 minutes, or would I just be spending an extra half hour over a very hot stove?

It is extract, I don't see any benefit in boiling longer than the 60 minutes for the bittering hops, and a little time before that to get thru the initial break. Longer boil will just darken the wort, and supposedly make the wort less fermentable.

I really don't know about the second item (fermentability), it is just what people say, I have no evidence either supporting or disproving it. Personally, I don't believe it.

 

[sailorsam]

Nasa,

I know it has a moderately high IBU count but I'm just hoping to balance the maltiness to some extent, especially considering the bittering inefficiencies of a partial boil. These computer estimates could be way off in real life.

I'm also thinking the small amount of Port soaked in the oak cubes could potentially impart additional sweetness to the beer, though that may only be a minor factor.

I'm hoping to use English yeast and aroma/flavour hops, so thats why I labeled it an English barleywine.

Presuming that the beer is 6-9 months old before I even taste it, I'm thinking that those two ounces of late hops will be more like a distant memory - I'm thinking they'll impart some slight background complexity rather than a notable hoppiness.

Again, those are just my intentions - a lot of you folks probably know better than me what the end result will be like!

 

[sailorsam]

It is extract, I don't see any benefit in boiling longer than the 60 minutes for the bittering hops, and a little time before that to get thru the initial break. Longer boil will just darken the wort, and supposedly make the wort less fermentable.

I really don't know about the second item (fermentability), it is just what people say, I have no evidence either supporting or disproving it. Personally, I don't believe it.

I was thinking a longer boil would lend some pleasant caramelization to the beer, though I guess it is questionable whether or not that is a good thing. I'm not overly worried about the beer being too dark from an aesthetic POV, but the fermentability part could definitely be an issue if its correct.

I don't really know enough to make a statement about it, one way or the other.

With that said, if I am using crystal/caramel malt than perhaps it is redundant to strive for a longer boil in order to get deeper toffeeish flavours. I could very well end up with too many extra unfermentables.

Like you mentioned, I will have to spend a few minutes dissolving all that extract and powering up the boil to a sufficient temperature - so that could probably take an extra 15-20 minutes on my terrible stove anyway!

Thanks for your input, Calder... Do you have much experience with oak aging? That would also be a first for me. (No worries if you don't, I have seen a lot of good threads here on HBT regarding the topic)

 

[Calder]

Do you have much experience with oak aging? That would also be a first for me. (No worries if you don't, I have seen a lot of good threads here on HBT regarding the topic)

I can't help you with oak. I have a lot of pieces of oak cut from a barrel, so they are much larger than you might be able to get your hands on. I leave mine in for months and get a nice flavor, but I believe with chips, it can get over-powering quickly.

I mostly use my oak for Sours, where it is in the beer for a year or more, and is more food for the bugs rather than to add flavor. I'm not a great fan of oak, I've done a few in my time, but find I prefer the beer without the oak.

 

[sailorsam]

Yeah, I've heard that about the chips. Apparently cubes are lower impact - so I'm going to give that a try if I ever get around to starting this project...

Do you reuse the same pieces of wood for your sour projects, as a sour starter? Or do you just use fresh pieces to provide a new source of cellulose for the brettanomyces? Sounds interesting...

I am not really a huge lover of overly oaked beers, either. To be honest, I haven't had too many to start with. Up here in my neck of Atlantic Canada there is only Innis & Gunn, but I've tried a couple more at beer festivals. Kuhnhenn Fourth Dementia Old Ale, for example, is probably the best strong beer I've ever sampled, but I was not so fond of the Bourbon Barrel version...

I do like the aromatics of oak and would like to make something layered that's capable of a little aging; homebrew is the best way to experiment for me!

I'll let you know if I get this brew on the go, I appreciate your help...