Extract NE IPA w/fresh hops - some questions

[BlueberryHill]

I have Crystal, Centennial, and Cascade hops that will be ready soon. Would like to use these to make a NE IPA in the 6% range. It's my first time using fresh hops. Hoping to build my own water from DI water (free source) and utilize some oats/wheat (can they be steeped?) for mouthfeel and planning to use WY1318 or Conan for yeast. Brewed mostly with extract kits only so far, and want to add some adventure. Not sure of a good recipe to utilize these hops to hopefully make something in the neighborhood of beers that I like (HF Edward, Focal Banger, Super Session #2, Boom Sauce, Farmers Fresh, Julius)

My biggest issue now is that I can find recipes that look like they might fit the bill but they are All Grain and I don't know how to convert. Also not sure of the best hop utilization schedule and if whole-hops-only with these hops will get me a good brew?

Thanks in advance for any advice/recipes!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Whole hops should work just fine for you. You'll just have to use more than you normally would in pellet version. For every ounce of pellets, you'll need 5-6 oz of the whole hop cones.

As far as your other questions, someone else will need to chime in.

 

[BlueberryHill]

Thank you! That is a lot more, but by the looks of it, I will have plenty! Getting excited to do this. Was just browsing craigslist for a mash tun. That might fix some of my issues. But I have made some great tasting extract beers and not sure if I need to spend the extra time and effort for all grain at this point if I can find a recipe that will work for what I am trying to accomplish.

 

[themuddledbrewer]

I am attempting to do a NE Extract batch for my next brew, and built a recipe using Brewer's Friend. I have no idea how it will turn out yet - but plan to brew in the next couple weeks.

Check out my recipe at the below link:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/520087/ne-ipa

I plan on steeping with flaked oats and some 2-row and then using LME and corn sugar after that with only whirlpool and dry hops. I have selected the WLP060 yeast in the recipe tool but plan to use the RVA004 from a local yeast supplier in VA.

 

[BlueberryHill]

Check out my recipe at the below link:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/520087/ne-ipa

That link says that I don't have permission to access the recipe. Would it be a big ask to request that you do a cut & paste of it onto the thread or even a screenshot?

My hops are ready. I am picking them tonight. So it's just about go time!

 

[themuddledbrewer]

Since I last posted, I modified the recipe based on some feedback from my local homebrew shop. I picked up all the ingredients for this and plan on brewing tomorrow. I swapped the yeast our for RVA LABS 104 Hoptopper yeast, but the rest of it is correct.


NE IPA
By Garrett Cotten
Method: Extract Style: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3 gallons Efficiency: 35% (steeping grains only)
Boil Gravity: 1.101 (recipe based estimate)
Original Gravity:1.061Final Gravity:1.012ABV (standard):6.33%IBU (tinseth):70.41SRM (morey):5.17
Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
7 lb Liquid Malt Extract - Light 35 4 77.8%
1 lb Corn Sugar - Dextrose 46 0.5 11.1%
Steeping Grains
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
0.5 lb Flaked Oats 33 2.2 5.6%
0.5 lb Flaked Wheat 34 2 5.6%
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
2 oz Citra Pellet 11 Whirlpool at 160 °F 0 min 32.96
2 oz Mosaic Pellet 12.5 Whirlpool at 160 °F 0 min 37.45
2 oz Citra Pellet 11 Dry Hop 5 days
2 oz Mosaic Pellet 12.5 Dry Hop 5 days
Yeast
White Labs - American Ale Yeast Blend WLP060
Attenuation (avg): 76% Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 68 - 72 °F Starter: No
Fermentation Temp: 70 °F Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / ° P)

 

[Rob2010SS]

Muddled, how did this go for you?

 

[themuddledbrewer]

Brew day went off without a hitch - everything seems to be on track. It has been in the fermenter for 10 days and the airlock doesn't show any activity. I am going to add the dry hops soon and then bottle in the next week. I haven't checked FG yet - color looks slightly darker than planned, but it may look better in a glass. Maybe using extra light LME would help get the juice bomb color...

 

[Mainer]

Sorry to be weighing in after the fact.
Back when I was starting out (my fourth batch, I think), I tried something akin to this. Mine was an extract IPA made with kolsch yeast, that I hoped would get a nice haze to it. After the fact, I was given the advice that, when steeping adjuncts like flaked oats or flaked wheat, it's advisable (or perhaps even necessary) to steep them with some 2-row, pilsner, or other base malt, because the adjuncts lack sufficient diastic power to release their own sugars in a fermentable state. The result is that you may extract a high concentration of unfermentable sugars, and thus end up with a final gravity far higher than you would like.

My final product *did* indeed end up a little sweeter than I'd planned, with a slightly heavy FG. That said, my friends who tried it enjoyed it. I haven't made it again, but there are a few who have requested it.

 

[themuddledbrewer]

Mainer - thanks for chiming in. I had read something similar, but the guys at my local homebrew shop advised me to drop the 2-row that I originally had in the recipe. That said, I am slightly nervous about not putting it in.

I will report back to this thread once I bottle to let you know FG, and then again when I taste it to let you know if it is sweet.

 

[Calder]

After the fact, I was given the advice that, when steeping adjuncts like flaked oats or flaked wheat, it's advisable (or perhaps even necessary) to steep them with some 2-row, pilsner, or other base malt, because the adjuncts lack sufficient diastic power to release their own sugars in a fermentable state. The result is that you may extract a high concentration of unfermentable sugars, and thus end up with a final gravity far higher than you would like.

That was bad information, and may be affecting your recipe planning.

Steeping flaked oats or flaked wheat does not add any unfermentable sugars. They have no sugars to give up. They have a lot of starches, which can result in a cloudy beer. You need the 2-row to convert the starches to sugars.

 

[Mainer]

That was bad information, and may be affecting your recipe planning.

Steeping flaked oats or flaked wheat does not add any unfermentable sugars. They have no sugars to give up. They have a lot of starches, which can result in a cloudy beer. You need the 2-row to convert the starches to sugars.

Maybe that's what they said, re: Starches vs. Unfermentable sugars. It doesn't impact my recipe planning, as I've moved to all-grain by now, so there's always enough drastic power in the mash.

 

[themuddledbrewer]

Good! That makes me feel better about steeping the flaked grains the way I did. I added the 4 oz of dry hops on Saturday - plan to bottle Thursday or Friday. Any thoughts on dry hop durations? I thought about doing half Saturday and the other half Tuesday to get a 6 day and 3 day, but put it all in at 6 days.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Muddled - in the future, I'd recommend that you do a dry hop addition while fermentation is still active. It really seems to be a key element for the NEIPA.

Also, most NEIPAs are lower in IBUs than the typical IPA. When I do a 6-6.5 ABV NEIPA, I usually shoot for 50-55 IBUs.

 

[themuddledbrewer]

All - I tried the first bottle of this batch the other day. It turned out pretty decent...color was darker than I was shooting for (probably using light LME instead of extra light), it was hazy but not quite as hazy I was shooting for. The first aroma was all Mosaic/Citra in the face, which was exactly what I was hoping for - however after about 10 minutes the hop aroma faded very quickly to almost non-existant. The flavor was very low bitterness, it had a nice juice/citrus flavor, but as the hop aroma faded it seemed to become more of a citrusy PA instead of a NEIPA.

All-in-all I think it is definitely drinkable - I will try more bottles this weekend and see if they are consistent. I will post a picture next time I drink one.

Any thoughts on the hop aroma fading so quickly and what I could do differently next time?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Would love to see a picture next time you open one. I should be able to drink mine by the end of the weekend, getting excited.

Not sure about the hop aroma fading. That seems weird to be there one minute and gone the next. Although, now that I think about it, doesn't that really happen all the time when you pour beer in a glass? It's original aroma is pretty strong but after drinking 1/4 of the glass, it's faded? Not sure, someone with more experience will have to chime in on that.

 

[themuddledbrewer]

Alright, here is a picture of the beer. The second time around I feel like the hop taste stayed around a little better and the aroma faded, but probably typical for any beer. I wasn't eating this time, so much easier to tell the flavor profile. See the attachment for a picture.