Extract Brewing Produces Overly Sweet Beers?

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The extract manufacturer presumably used water with minerals -- certain levels of sodium, magnesium, chloride, sulfate, calcium, and bicarbonate.
You don't know what the levels are and you can't reduce whatever minerals are there.

This is well known. "Adding brewing Salts to Season Your Beer" in chapter 8 ("Water for Extract Brewing") in How to Brew, 4e offers a number of ideas on how to approach brewing salts with extract.

Granted, I can't change the mineral composition provided by the extract (or the mineral composition in the base malts), but I can change the mineral composition of my wort.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What you don't know is the ingredients that went into making the extract. I don't think even "base malt" extracts are only one malt. There may be basic 2 row and some crystal or caramel added. Especially when buying something like "Golden Extract", what went into it to make it "Golden"??

You can counter this somewhat by always using the same light extract, then using specialty grains for flavor and color. But you are still starting off with a bit of an unknown.

FWIW, Briess makes much of this information available at their web site and in some of their blog posts. I suspect that, for many people, it's enough information for them to continue to brew to the strengths of extract+steep and BIAB when flexibility in wort creation is necessary.

 

[kh54s10]

FWIW, Briess makes much of this information available at their web site and in some of their blog posts. I suspect that, for many people, it's enough information for them to continue to brew to the strengths of extract+steep and BIAB when flexibility in wort creation is necessary.

I guess it depends on how much you really want to know about the ingredients. Breiss states "base malt" that leaves things wide open. As US 2 row is a base malt. Pale ale malt is a base malt. Maris Otter is a base malt. The list goes on.

From their list. I suppose they could be using any one of these:

• Brewers

• Synergy Select Pilsen

• Pilsen

• Full Pint

• Pale Ale

• Goldpils® Vienna Malt

• Ashburne® Mild Malt

 

[kh54s10]

I think you've read my post wrong. It says "74% ale malt". In New Zealand anyway, "ale malt" means the English style base malt as opposed to US style 2-row / pale malt. I think Americans call this "pale ale malt".

Anyway, my point is that this is a known ingredient.

The only confusing thing here is "roasted malt" which could either mean black malt or roast barley. It won't be chocolate malt because they use that term specifically on other recipes.

So you're splitting hairs over whether 0.4% of the recipe is roast barley or black malt?

I don't usually buy hopped extracts either, I just picked the golden ale product since that was the example you'd started with earlier.

Pale ale malt... From what maltster? There are differences, admittedly minor differences.

 

[balrog]

Their Golden kit looks like this...
IBU: 27
SRM: 6
Malt: 74% Ale, 13.6% Lager, 12% Caramalt, 0.4% Roasted malt
Hops, bittering: Green Bullet, Pacific Gem

Plenty of information there to build a recipe around.

One thing I've not seen mentioned is the process used by manufacturer of the malt -- specifically the mash temp which creates the fermentability profile of short and longer chain sugars. We have to presume they mashed at 152-4°F but 148° vs 158° difference will produce dryer/sweeter beer depending on the yeast's ability to go after longer chain sugars of the higher mash temps.

 

[Sadu]

Pale ale malt... From what maltster? There are differences, admittedly minor differences.

In this case it's Malteurop, I think I had to ask to find that out but it's not a trade secret or anything.

Likewise with Breiss being an American company (I think?) would it not be a safe bet to assume that "base malt" means American 2-row? Seems logical. You could always fire them an enquiry if it wasn't clear.

So ok maybe you have less choice on brands of base malt when it comes to extract brewing, I'll cede you that one. Specialties are totally under your control of course, if you want that control.

 

[kh54s10]

In this case it's Malteurop, I think I had to ask to find that out but it's not a trade secret or anything.

Likewise with Breiss being an American company (I think?) would it not be a safe bet to assume that "base malt" means American 2-row? Seems logical. You could always fire them an enquiry if it wasn't clear.

So ok maybe you have less choice on brands of base malt when it comes to extract brewing, I'll cede you that one. Specialties are totally under your control of course, if you want that control.

It's cool. It is all to degrees of control. I used kits from Northern Brewer. I believe they make their own liquid extract. I haven't seen where they list the ingredients of the extracts, and don't really care enough to ask. I went to all grain more for cost savings of buying in bulk than ingredient control. I also substitute malts for whatever I have on hand or something cheap, so having control doesn't mean I always use the malt a recipe calls for.

Some of my better recipes came when I was using up leftovers.....

 

[Sadu]

I went to all grain more for cost savings of buying in bulk than ingredient control. I also substitute malts for whatever I have on hand or something cheap, so having control doesn't mean I always use the malt a recipe calls for.
Some of my better recipes came when I was using up leftovers.....

Agree with all of that. I guess my point is that extract brewing doesn't limit your control like many people assume that it does.

I started off with a few average (if we're being generous) extract brews, then went all-grain and started making good beer. Last year I won a big pile of extract product in a comp and that got me started on the extract path again. What surprised me straight away was that I didn't feel I'd lost any control over the recipe - in the places that matter.

I think your original point about the Golden LME is valid. If you don't know the breakdown of the ingredients in a product then it's basically worthless in terms of building recipes around. Extract is way too expensive to be doing blind leaps of faith and hoping it comes out balanced. But if you know what is inside then you can choose an appropriate extract product and use steeping grains / partial mash to round out the recipe to where you want it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, Briess makes much of this information available at their web site and in some of their blog posts. I suspect that, for many people, it's enough information for them to continue to brew to the strengths of extract+steep and BIAB when flexibility in wort creation is necessary.

I guess it depends on how much you really want to know about the ingredients.

Agreed.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I think your [@kh54s10] original point about the Golden LME is valid. If you don't know the breakdown of the ingredients in a product then it's basically worthless in terms of building recipes around.

I'm comfortable with my anecdotal experiences and I am comfortable with using Briess "Golden" DME as a good flavor approximation for brewers malt or "two row".

Granted, it's not "rigorous brewing science". But the result is tasty.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... you are at the mercy of the extract manufactures

You are at the mercy of who made the malt.

Personally, I am not.

I control what goes into the kettle to make the wort.

If the characteristics of a particular brand and flavor of DME fit with the composition of the wort I'm looking to make, I'll use it. If not, I wont.

As always, YMMV.

 

[ListerH]

Thanks all... The thread moved on a little from my original post... but I think I am going to experiment with amylase enzyme... and the move to all grain is in the works once I have my setup configured in the next couple of months...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, Briess makes much of this information available at their web site and in some of their blog posts.

Here's a point in time answer (and the missing link):

99% Briess Brewers Malt, 1% Briess Carapils® Malt,

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/As...R_2015BriessReleasesTwoSingleMaltExtracts.pdf

http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/introducing-the-first-briess-single-malt-extracts/

note: bold text is from the original article

Here ya go! Briess is [in Oct 2015] adding two new CBW® malt extracts to its product portfolio…each produced from a single malt:

• CBW® Goldpils® Vienna malt extract (6º L at 8º Plato) is made from 100% Briess Goldpils® Vienna Malt
• CBW® Pale Ale malt extract (6º L at 8º Plato) is made from 100% Briess Pale Ale Malt

These single-malt extracts make converting from extract to all grain, or vice versa, easier. And it gives the creative brewer total liberty and control. Granted, CBW® Pilsen Light malt extract and CBW® Golden Light Malt extract are close behind this pair. At 99% Briess Pilsen Malt and Briess Brewers Malt, respectively, and 1% Briess Carapils® Malt, these malt extracts can’t qualify for the “single malt” category.