External copper coil or internal Stainless steel coil for chilling

[grassygrandma]

I am adding a cooling system to my 110 gallon fermenter. I am curious about whether it would be more effective to run copper coil around the outside because of sanitation or a stainless steel coil internally for a more effective change in temperature. (Don’t want to put copper inside)

 

[Sammy86]

I am adding a cooling system to my 110 gallon fermenter. I am curious about whether it would be more effective to run copper coil around the outside because of sanitation or a stainless steel coil internally for a more effective change in temperature. (Don’t want to put copper inside)

Either would work, but the SS coil inside seems to be the way many of the big boy producers go. Santize the coil with the fermenter and you're good to go.

 

[day_trippr]

I imagine a huge performance advantage using an immersion chiller vs a coil-wrapped vessel...

Cheers!

 

[hotbeer]

Some people put pieces of copper in their FV's believing it's promotes better yeast nutrition. Haven't seen much discussion of that lately. Maybe it's old out date belief from the previous century.

110 gallon fermenter. Geesh! You'll get faster response to chilling with the coil inside. But I would be happy with the slower response time having the coil wrapped on the outside where I didn't have to clean it and sanitize it every time.

The scale of your homebrew operation is too big for me to really imagine what to recommend.

 

[day_trippr]

Because one can sanitize it in place, cleaning an SS IC is rather trivial - although I suppose the scale might make it more interesting

Cheers!

 

[grassygrandma]

Either would work, but the SS coil inside seems to be the way many of the big boy producers go. Santize the coil with the fermenter and you're good to go.

Yeah it seems to be the best route for the heat transfer regardless of copper being more conductive. The issue was just sanitizing but I can get over that. Thanks!

 

[grassygrandma]

Some people put pieces of copper in their FV's believing it's promotes better yeast nutrition. Haven't seen much discussion of that lately. Maybe it's old out date belief from the previous century.

110 gallon fermenter. Geesh! You'll get faster response to chilling with the coil inside. But I would be happy with the slower response time having the coil wrapped on the outside where I didn't have to clean it and sanitize it every time.

The scale of your homebrew operation is too big for me to really imagine what to recommend.

Haha thank you, yeah I got lucky when an old winery gave me their mixer and decided to start using it as a fermenter but now I’m trying to design a cooling system. See I also don’t mind the slower response time and it might even be easier to do, I was just afraid taht it might not even get to the temperatures I wanted.

 

[grassygrandma]

I imagine a huge performance advantage using an immersion chiller vs a coil-wrapped vessel...

Cheers!

Yeah so far this seems the way to go. The copper coil around seemed easier to do I was just afraid of not reaching the temps I would like.

 

[grassygrandma]

Because one can sanitize it in place, cleaning an SS IC is rather trivial - although I suppose the scale might make it more interesting

Cheers!

Thanks!

 

[BrewZer]

What is the tank made of?

 

[grassygrandma]

What is the tank made of?

Stainless steel

 

[BrewZer]

Stainless steel

Well then I think you'll be OK with copper on the outside. It won't be as quick as the SS inside, but the heat transfer between the copper and SS will make your FV nice and cold.

You'll need a LOT of copper, though, to wrap around that thing. I would want to cover at least the bottom third of the vessel with coils so you have flexibility in how much you actually brew.

This assumes, of course, that the tank isn't insulated. If it is, you'll have to go inside.

 

[grassygrandma]

Well then I think you'll be OK with copper on the outside. It won't be as quick as the SS inside, but the heat transfer between the copper and SS will make your FV nice and cold.

You'll need a LOT of copper, though, to wrap around that thing. I would want to cover at least the bottom third of the vessel with coils so you have flexibility in how much you actually brew.

This assumes, of course, that the tank isn't insulated. If it is, you'll have to go inside.

Thank you, the tank is insulated with another stainless steel plate surrounding that insulation, I was going to take that off and wrap the copper coil and put insulation over that copper with the plate back on if I did it externally. But it might be easier to go stainless steel on the inside then because I don’t find sanitizing to be an issue, it’s just a lot to miss with more crevices in the coil.

 

[BrewZer]

Thank you, the tank is insulated with another stainless steel plate surrounding that insulation, I was going to take that off and wrap the copper coil and put insulation over that copper with the plate back on if I did it externally. But it might be easier to go stainless steel on the inside then because I don’t find sanitizing to be an issue, it’s just a lot to miss with more crevices in the coil.

Hmm. If you're going to take the jacket off anyway... any chance you could have someone weld fittings in the jacket and then just run coolant around the FV in the space between the kettle and the jacket?

 

[grassygrandma]

Hmm. If you're going to take the jacket off anyway... any chance you could have someone weld fittings in the jacket and then just run coolant around the FV in the space between the kettle and the jacket?

Yeah that was one of the plans, I was going to solder some copper pipe surrounding the FV which is tough but with tin I can do it. Then put insulation back on but that honestly is just as much work as cleaning it lol. But welding fittings in would be better. I might see if I can make myself a dimples jacket too as an option, I just didn’t know if that was worth my time if I could just run stainless steel internally. There’s just many options so maybe I’ll draw it out in CAD and take the most effective and cheapest.

 

[SanPancho]

few notes-

the ss coils on the inside need to penetrate the lid or the body, which means you likely wont be able to hold much pressure in that tank. (although winery tanks dont typically hold pressure anyways)

as for doing CIP, its really not a good way to do it with internal coil in place. it simply cant get everything clean as the coils block so much of the spray. most nanos have a second lid for CIP ball. pull the coils, swap lids, and hand wash while your CIP cycle is running.

i'd also warn you that i have yet to see a DIY ss coil that didnt look like crap. (homebrew and some nanos) stainless is not easy to work with, doesnt like being compressed/twisted and is perfectly happy to kink up on you. although at 110gals, your coil diameter might be large enough to work without trouble.

when it comes time to make 90 degree bends, a regular EMT bender like electricians use will get you nice clean bends.

 

[grassygrandma]

few notes-

the ss coils on the inside need to penetrate the lid or the body, which means you likely wont be able to hold much pressure in that tank. (although winery tanks dont typically hold pressure anyways)

as for doing CIP, its really not a good way to do it with internal coil in place. it simply cant get everything clean as the coils block so much of the spray. most nanos have a second lid for CIP ball. pull the coils, swap lids, and hand wash while your CIP cycle is running.

i'd also warn you that i have yet to see a DIY ss coil that didnt look like crap. (homebrew and some nanos) stainless is not easy to work with, doesnt like being compressed/twisted and is perfectly happy to kink up on you. although at 110gals, your coil diameter might be large enough to work without trouble.

when it comes time to make 90 degree bends, a regular EMT bender like electricians use will get you nice clean bends.

So do you recommend I go internally if I can keep the coil large enough and successfully clean?

 

[SanPancho]

if your tank is double wall insulated then yes. trying to cut off the outer jacket, pull insulation, solder copper everywhere and then get the jacket welded back in place with no gaps is a helluva project....

as for being able to pull the coils, thats a function of how wide the lid is. the obviously cant be wider than the lid opening.

 

[jerrylotto]

One point is that if you want to run your wort through a stainless steel coil, you need a pump. With a copper cooling coil you can just run water through it to waste at ambient pressure I put the cleaned empty cooling coil into the boiling wort for the last 15 minutes to sanitize it then run my cooling water through an RO filter and collect the output;; but if you don't want to collect it, you just slow the incoming water pressure so that the waste effluent is still hot.

Of course this is all about cooling the wort to fermentation temperature before I transfer it. A chest freezer with an inkbird controller, probing the thermowell is the cooling solution I prefer both for stainless or plastic.

 

[day_trippr]

I didn't see running the wort inside either coil mentioned, and given the impossibility of inspecting the interior of a coil, would never recommend it. If the OP wants to drive either coil using domestic water supply pressure, neither coil style would need a pump...

Cheers!

 

[superiorsat]

These were fairly easy to work with and look pretty decent.

 

[jerrylotto]

I didn't see running the wort inside either coil mentioned, and given the impossibility of inspecting the interior of a coil, would never recommend it. If the OP wants to drive either coil using domestic water supply pressure, neither coil style would need a pump...

Cheers!

Oops I misread "external" versus "internal"

 

[hotbeer]

Now that you've better described it and given some other clues about your abilities, I'm favoring something external. Then cleaning and sanitizing the insides of the FV will remain easy or at least un-troubled by other things.