Experienced BIAB Brewers – I Need Your Input

[typebrad]

I have been an extract brewer for some time now with quite a few batches under my belt, and I'm sick of the drab colors and extract flavors.

I'm not looking to fill half my garage with a large all-grain rig, so BIAB is perfect for me.

I'm shopping for a new 15 gallon kettle to get started. I've been looking at a couple with thermometers and ball valves because it sure makes it "seem" simplified.

I like the idea of a false bottom and a stainless plumbers hose under my grain and bag (I'm a filter nut–love clear, clean looking brews). I'll filter in every step if I can.

Is this the way to go with BIAB though? One, can I trust the built-in thermometer and two, should I worry about the extra filtering, or does a proper bag do the job?

So, a kettle with all the bells and whistles, or just a kettle?

About the ball valve ... I DO like the idea of simply hosing my wort into my fermenter rather than having to pour. Everything is getting heavier each batch I brew.

Thanks in advance.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[NeoBrew]

15 gallons is a good size for 5 gallon batches. I find with my 10 gallon megapot I need to do a dunk sparge in a seperate kettle on higher gravity beers to make sure the mash fits. On a side note the sparge seems to really help my efficiency, so I don't mind doing it.

Kettle extras are really a matter of taste. I went with just a valve. If you like bling, get bling.

I don't filter any of my beers. I've had pretty good luck with nice clean beers. I use whirlfloc in the kettle and it seems to do everything I need to end up with nice clear beers. Even if sometimes there is a LOT of sediment going into the fermenter. I use a swiss voile bag that I made myself.

BIAB has been very worth it for me. Hope you find the same.

 

[Einherjar]

Is this the way to go with BIAB though? One, can I trust the built-in thermometer and two, should I worry about the extra filtering, or does a proper bag do the job?

1) Depends on the thermometer. Best bet is to calibrate it using a digital thermometer.

2) The bag will keep husks and grain debris from entering the wort, but there'd be nothing wrong with having a filter / false bottom as extra insurance. A false bottom would also allow you to fire the kettle with your mash and bag still in it to do a step mash or mash out. Without a false bottom you'll have to rig up a pulley system to suspend the bag off the bottom of the kettle or you'll risk melting the bag and / or scorching the grains.

 

[mkyl428]

The bag will filter just fine i get pefectly clear beer using BIAB. I use a digital thermometer i feel it is more accurate. I also have a regular kettle as for the ball vale and hoses i think that is a preference thing. I put a veggie steamer in the bottom of the kettle to prevent burning, but lately I've just been keeping off the bottom with bungee chords around the outside of the pot.

 

[Spectre216]

You could always buy a pot, and then if later on you want the valve you can add it yourself. Cheaper in the short run and makes a fun DIY project later on. As far as the use for this kind of kettle in BIAB, I don't know as i've never done it (though I can't imagine it being terribly different from AG). That being said, I don't find myself missing those parts on my plain big ol' 15 gallon pot.

 

[mkyl428]

the one on the right is BIAB

 

[typebrad]

I love this forum.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[typebrad]

If not using a built-in thermometer—or a digital—how do you mash without losing degrees? My simple "hang on the side of the kettle" thermometer would force me to keep my lid cracked. I hope to wrap my kettle in a blanket while mashing.

 

[MaxStout]

I second on the 15 gal kettle. I started BIAB in a 10 gal and it worked fine for lower gravity beers (grain + strike water <9 gal). But bigger beers need a lot more room. Less worry about boilovers too when the wort isn't right up to the brim.

I have a weldless thermo on my kettle, It's accurate enough for getting me in the ballpark, but I use a Thermopen for actual mash temp measurement.

 

[LLBeanJ]

As the others have stated, there's really no need to filter, as you'll get plenty clear beer, perhaps even clearer beer, by dumping it all in the fermenter instead of filtering out the break material. You just need to keep the grain out of the boil, which the brew bag will do, and if you want to filter the hops, get a dual mesh strainer. Instead of a false bottom, which you really don't need, invest that money in a higher quality kettle, one that has a clad bottom, then you won't need to put anything in the bottom of the kettle to protect the bag from scorching when you direct heat it.

I'd also invest in a high quality digital thermometer instead of the dial units that mount in the kettle. I'm partial to Thermapen myself, but there are less expensive alternatives you can go with if dropping nearly a C-note on a thermometer doesn't interest you.

The valve on the kettle is probably worth the investment. I don't have one and I have no problem dumping 5 gals of wort into the fermenter at the end of the boil, but I could definitely appreciate how much easier it would be to just open the valve and let it go.

 

[MaxStout]

I'd also invest in a high quality digital thermometer instead of the dial units that mount in the kettle. I'm partial to Thermapen myself, but there are less expensive alternatives you can go with if dropping nearly a C-note on a thermometer doesn't interest you.

This is a great thermo for around $20. Reads fast and is accurate.

 

[typebrad]

Do you open the lid and stick the Thermapen in during mash to check temp? How do you get your reading? I've seen the digital thermometers (like for grills) that have the external display. Is that feature available for the Thermapen? If it's 50°F outside and I'm opening my kettle to check mash temp, degrees are going to fall like leaves on an autumn day.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[MaxStout]

Do you open the lid and stick the Thermapen in during mash to check temp? How do you get your reading? I've seen the digital thermometers (like for grills) that have the external display. Is that feature available for the Thermapen? If it's 50°F outside and I'm opening my kettle to check mash temp, degrees are going to fall like leaves on an autumn day.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

I open the lid, stir a bit to even out the temp and take a reading. It takes maybe 15-20 seconds and the lid goes back on. I use an old sleeping bag to insulate the kettle during the rest. I live in MN and in the winter I only lose a couple degrees in 60 minutes. I've been told that most of the conversion occurs during the first 15-20 minutes anyway.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Here's the deal (and you'll learn this for yourself the first time you do a mash):

The wort temp is going to vary inside the kettle due to convection. A kettle mounted thermometer will give you a reading, but it will not be accurate. Nor will a remote probe. You would need constant agitation or recirculation to keep the temp somewhat constant throughout.

So, what to do? Well, you have a couple of options:

1) Accept that temp is going to drop. As you're coming up to rest temp for the first time, you should be constantly stirring with one hand and holding a thermometer in the wort with the other. When you hit your temp, pull the thermometer and put the lid on. Wait 15 (or 10 or 20 or whatever gives you that warm fuzzy feeling) minutes, fire up the burner, and do it again. Repeat as necessary until the mash is done.

2) Insulate your kettle so that it can hold temp better and once it's up to temp (checking as above), put the lid on and walk away until the mash is done. There is no need to have constant monitoring of the temp.

Personally, I do option 1. Lot's of BIABer's do option 2.

I've brewed in 30° weather and 100° weather and it's the same either way.

 

[copyright1997]

1. +1 on the Thermapen, well worth the money.
2. I've never filtered, and end up with nice clear beers (unless I'm trying for a beer with a hazy look). The keys are a) Irish Moss and b) Cold Crash. I keg so cold crashing is easy, just rack to the keg and let the remaining yeast/other drop out by having the keg spend time near 32 degrees, followed by drawing off a couple of pints.
3. Although I have a set (three of them as a matter of fact) of 20 gallon pots, when I BIAB I almost always use my 8 gallon pot. Big enough for 4.5-5 gallons of typical brews and 1.070 or so IPA's. Since I like variety, I'd rather reduce the batch size if necessary and just do another batch of something else.

 

[knelson13A]

I have a 16 gallon Bayou Classic pot I bought when I went from extract to BIAB. It came with a ball valve, and that made things sooooo much easier.

I whirlpool while the immersion chiller is in (has the added benefit of helping with the cooling process if I go in the opposite direction of the flow through the chiller) to help settle the trub, and then I pseudo-filter the wort through a simple metal strainer/funnel setup as its going into the carboy. That also helps aerate the wort prior to pitching.

I've only done one BIAB batch so far, so I'm still tweaking things. I didn't have a problem with temperature loss on my mash the first time. Wrapped up the kettle in a big moving blanket for insulation.

 

[johnodon]

This is the 15 gallon pot that I got: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/up...ainless-steel-stock-pot-w-cover-149-a-471100/

This thing is incredibly heavy and very well made!

Free shipping to store and you can find a $15 off $150 coupon. I used the $4.87 "keg tool" (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/4-87-keg-tool-402677/) to silver solder my unions for a ball valve and site glass.

EDIT: There is a new coupon to get 15% off but I have not tried it and may be only for in-store purchases: http://www.retailmenot.com/view/staples.com?c=6008390

John

 

[wilserbrewer]

I think the Concord Kettles offer a good value and ship free, the 60 qt is $100 shipped.
http://www.concordkettles.com/collections/vendors?q=Concord

There is a phone # on the web site, perhaps they would drill the pot as well for a valve?

They are also available on ebay as well, sometimes 10% off.

Clear wort does not mean clear beer, as said above I would not be concerned with trying to filter, but rather look to cold crashing or gelatin to get nice clear beer. Clear beer is the result of the brite tank and not as much the kettle IMO.

I would also not bother with a false bottom, braid, or kettle mount thermometer. Once you get the routine down there should be no need to add heat with the bag in the pot, and if you are a few degrees low, just simply heat gently and STIR while heating and the bag will not burn. A simple handheld digital stick thermometer is all you need for checking mash temps IMHO.

I would also suggest a well fitted bag and a ratchet pulley if you plan on larger grain bills.

Making a nice, well fitted, and strong BIAB bag is not that difficult if you have the ability to sew, if you need any pointers PM me.

cheers,
wilser

 

[markstache]

I would also not bother with a false bottom, braid, or kettle mount thermometer.

I ruined an auto-siphon last weekend trying to suck out whole cone hops. Would I have similar issues draining cooled wort from a ball-valve without a braid or screen to filter the hops? I agree that filtering for clarity is not necessary.

 

[jpcourtney]

Here's the deal (and you'll learn this for yourself the first time you do a mash):

So, what to do? Well, you have a couple of options:

1) Accept that temp is going to drop. As you're coming up to rest temp for the first time, you should be constantly stirring with one hand and holding a thermometer in the wort with the other. When you hit your temp, pull the thermometer and put the lid on. Wait 15 (or 10 or 20 or whatever gives you that warm fuzzy feeling) minutes, fire up the burner, and do it again. Repeat as necessary until the mash is done.

2) Insulate your kettle so that it can hold temp better and once it's up to temp (checking as above), put the lid on and walk away until the mash is done. There is no need to have constant monitoring of the temp.

Personally, I do option 1. Lot's of BIABer's do option 2.

I've brewed in 30° weather and 100° weather and it's the same either way.

I have a ball valve and a combination bulkhead with a thermometer and a sight glass. I love the sight glass as I know exactly hiow much strike water, total brewing water or final gallons to the fermenter there are. I use the thermometer very little, as I have a digital CDN thermometer that I check the mash with to find the appropriate temp. Once I reach mash temperature I cover the BK with two heavy bath towels, one each direction and let it go. I prefer to brew when it's 30-40 degrees out and I will seldom drop a degree or two over and hour. Once the grain is saturated there is a whole lot of thermal mass to cool.

 

[typebrad]

I cold crash my extract brews, whirfloc, filter hops through painter's bag when racking and get really "clear" beer. I just can't help it. I like to take every precaution to make it this way. I want to hand a friend a home brew they can enjoy to the last drop from a bottle with no trub, or hops in their teeth. I might be a little OCD. And I want similar results with my BIAB batches. Can't wait to get started!

Love the input. Thanks everyone!


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[wilserbrewer]

I ruined an auto-siphon last weekend trying to suck out whole cone hops. Would I have similar issues draining cooled wort from a ball-valve without a braid or screen to filter the hops? I agree that filtering for clarity is not necessary.

Interesting question, as a braid, bazooka braid, or a FB will work with whole hops, yet can clog with pellets. Mixed with trub, pellet hops are not easy to filter, you could bag the whole hops to avoid clogging the outflow as well.

I solely use pellets and ferment the whole batch and let gravity sort it out in the fermenter.

YMMV
Cheers


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[zacster]

I use a Blichmann 10g as is, with a Wilserbrewer bag. I heat the water in the pot to the Beersmith recommended temp, put the grains in, seal the pot up tight with a heavy fleece jacket over it and some towels and walk away for an hour and do something else. The temp always starts slightly higher than mash temp for the style, and drops a degree or two or three by the time it is done. It's all close enough.

I've tried whirlpooling but gave up on it. I use whirlfloc, let the brew, trub and all, go into my 6 gallon carboy and have it settle for a few hours, and then take the cleared wort and rack to my twin 3 gallon better bottles and put those in the fridge, where it settles even more. I then pitch the yeast cold.

My last batch this way was a pilsener that was crystal clear, just the right body, and perfectly balanced between bitterness and maltiness. It would have won some awards if I had thought to not drink it all.

 

[typebrad]

I use a Blichmann 10g as is, with a Wilserbrewer bag. I heat the water in the pot to the Beersmith recommended temp, put the grains in, seal the pot up tight with a heavy fleece jacket over it and some towels and walk away for an hour and do something else. The temp always starts slightly higher than mash temp for the style, and drops a degree or two or three by the time it is done. It's all close enough.



I've tried whirlpooling but gave up on it. I use whirlfloc, let the brew, trub and all, go into my 6 gallon carboy and have it settle for a few hours, and then take the cleared wort and rack to my twin 3 gallon better bottles and put those in the fridge, where it settles even more. I then pitch the yeast cold.



My last batch this way was a pilsener that was crystal clear, just the right body, and perfectly balanced between bitterness and maltiness. It would have won some awards if I had thought to not drink it all.

Niiiiiiiice



/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[MaxStout]

Interesting question, as a braid, bazooka braid, or a FB will work with whole hops, yet can clog with pellets. Mixed with trub, pellet hops are not easy to filter, you could bag the whole hops to avoid clogging the outflow as well.

I solely use pellets and ferment the whole batch and let gravity sort it out in the fermenter.

YMMV
Cheers


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

This.

I've tried catching pellet hop junk when racking into the fermenter, with less-than-satisfactory results. Once I tried pouring the wort from the BK valve through a big funnel with mesh insert. The funnel plugged up completely before I was even half way through racking.

Now I just rack straight into the carboy and let it all settle out. Careful racking to the bottling bucket gives me clear beer with only a fine layer of yeast on the bottoms of bottles.

 

[zacster]

This.

I've tried catching pellet hop junk when racking into the fermenter, with less-than-satisfactory results. Once I tried pouring the wort from the BK valve through a big funnel with mesh insert. The funnel plugged up completely before I was even half way through racking.

Now I just rack straight into the carboy and let it all settle out. Careful racking to the bottling bucket gives me clear beer with only a fine layer of yeast on the bottoms of bottles.

Try doing what I do above, use Whirlfloc, empty from the kettle to a carboy, let it settle for a few hours, then rack to another carboy and leave as much of the trub behind as possible. It works really well.

As soon as you put the wort into the carboy you'll see it start to clarify and settle. Whirlfloc works.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Try doing what I do above, use Whirlfloc, empty from the kettle to a carboy, let it settle for a few hours, then rack to another carboy and leave as much of the trub behind as possible. It works really well.

As soon as you put the wort into the carboy you'll see it start to clarify and settle. Whirlfloc works.

Glad to hear this works for you. However, if clear beer is the goal, what you're doing is completely unnecessary. Dump it all in the fermenter and it will clear on its own. As well or better than if you started with clear wort. Sure, this was just one experiment, so we should be careful about drawing sweeping conclusions, but Blulosopher's exBEERiment just confirmed what some of us who have been brewing for a while have already figured out.

But really, do whatever makes the most sense for you. Lord knows there are things I do that probably aren't necessary but I keep doing them out of habit or familiarity.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I have a big aluminum pot I use for BIAB, and I still use a paint strainer bag for ~12lbs of grain. The bag is really too small, but it's functional. To insulate, I wrap up my kettle in an old sleeping bag, and I periodically take temps with a digital thermometer. I turn out great beer with zero additional equipment. The kettle was maybe $30 and the thermometer was $20. By wrapping the kettle in the sleeping bag, there's no risk of scorching, and, perhaps more importantly, I can walk away for an hour at a time if I want to. My wife hates the mess, so I usually brew on days where I work from home. It is quick, super easy, and cheap. You really don't need more than those four things at all, and I'm into all grain for maybe $60. Honestly, I have no plans to upgrade anything but the grain bag - this simple setup does the job just fine.

 

[zacster]

Maybe it would clear just as well without that extra step, and in fact I've only done it that way on my last two batches and have had clear beer in the past. It just doesn't hurt and takes the worry out. There is another reason I do it that way now, since I split between two smaller carboys that fit in my fridge, I want them both to be about the same and this doesn't leave me with one carboy with all the trub.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[hawktrio]

+1 min 13 gallon pot, +1 Thermapen (replaced my incorrect CDN which could not be recalibrated without returning), +1 Swiss voile/Wilserbrewer bag, +1 sight glass (knowing vols is critical to knowing efficiencies), +1 sleeping bag, +1 whirlfloc, +1 gelatin, +1 freezer (cold crashing). No additional filtering required, wonderful clear beers even when dry hopped.