Experienced 10 gallon BAIB advice

[rtracer]

So I am 2 brews into BIAB(after 4 extract batches) and all has gone great with my best beer being my first BIAB pale ale.
I want to do another couple 5g batches to perfect my "house" beers. Once I am happy with recipe I would like to try doing those in 10 gallon batches.

My equipment is as follows

15g Keggle
8 gallon kettle with ball drain valve
Big ass BIAB bag
I recently purchased a couple Grow light ratchet straps I plan on mounting to my garage ceiling.

My tentative brew plan.

Figure out total water needed, I am assuming around 14 gallons total.
I have found that 8.5 gallons seems to be about right for my 5 gallon batched with approx 12 lb grain bill and lots of hops.
I'll let Beer smith help me dial that in.

I figure use about 10 gallons in the Keggle, heat to strike temp, add grains and mash at what ever temp recipe calls.
While mashing heat 4ish gallons in the 8 gallon kettle to approx 170.
One mash is complete and second vessel water at proper temp, hoist grain bag so bottom of bag is suspended above wort.
At this point slowly pour/sparge grains with the hot water till proper pre-boil volume is attained.
I assume that this hot water sparge will act as a sparge and mashout and help with efficiency?
I figure I can crudely get an inch measurement from top of the keggle to know the appropriate amount of liquid.
I am assuming ~12.5 gallons pre boil??
Drain, squeeze and dispose of grains and boil.

Am also thinking it would be fun to try and built some sort of sparge arm thing out of a couple lengths of pipe with a T in the middle, cap 3 ends, and add a fitting on the 4th to accept a hose. Drill holes in the tubing so the water is slowly and evenly distributed over the grains.

So, that's what I have come up with.

 

[doug293cz]

Overall it is a workable plan. Couple of notes:

1. You don't need to mash out, or even heat your sparge water (ref: http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2009/05/12/cold-water-sparging/.) You just need to make sure your mash conversion is complete prior to pulling the bag. Test for completion using the method described here.
2. Your efficiency will be better if you squeeze the bag prior to sparging. The less sugar (wort) remaining in the grain at the start of sparging, the more sugar you will get in your kettle.

Brew on

 

[chickypad]

IME fly sparging doesn't work so well in the bag, at least I wasn't able to get good lauter efficiency that way. Dunk sparging is easier for me and gives me better efficiency, which I think you could probably do with your 8 gal pot.

 

[wilserbrewer]

If you think you will be going to mainly 10 gallon batches, consider ditching the keg in favor of a 20 gallon kettle.

Large grain bills can be tricky to remove from the narrow top opening of a keggle.

Or make the keggle opening as large as possible.

 

[rupert130]

I agree with wilser. I use one of his bags in a 25 gallon kettle. I can do full volume mash for any 10 gallon batch and even 15 gallon batches of lower OG beer. Full volume mash is what makes BIAB so convenient. Only one kettle needed and no sparging. Makes brew day and clean up go a bit quicker in my experience.

 

[btbnl]

I'd also go with the dunk sparge - it's what I do with all my 10G batches in 15G keggles. With an 8G kettle to sparge in, you'll probably need something like a 10G mash/5G sparge split of the ~15G water you'll need.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Just curious...I always hear about "dunk sparge" in BIAB. How is that different from batch sparging (or is it)?

 

[20grit]

Dunk sparging should take place in another vessel of water.
I squeeze bag. Drop it in the other water. Let it sit for a bit. Then pour the liquid into my kettle.
Oh and squeeze again.

 

[lslbrew]

I looked at what you do for my 10 gallon batches but settled on using the bag as a liner inside a cooler (the big rectangle one) as a mash tun. This lets me mash then do 1 sparge and efficiency has been between 70 - 75%. The main benefit to this is that you can drain the mash and sparge and not worry about trying to lift 40 lbs of wet grain out of the boil kettle. It can be done but for me, once it is drained it is no big deal to take the bag out of the cooler rather than water and empty in the compost pile.

This also solves your issue of trying to fly sparge, etc. You are correct about 14 gallons of water total. You cannot do grain + 14 gallons in a keggle. You would need a 20 gallon brew pot to do the full volume mash or you are back to trying to sparge. To me it was easier to make the mash tun so I could sparge and still use the keggle. Cooler was less expensive than a bigger brew pot and I don't have a good way to set up a pully rig where I brew.

 

[wilserbrewer]

If your buying your grain at the "right" price, sparging isn't worth the effort IMHO....

How does one sparge 20-25lb grain bills in an 8 gallon kettle with 5 gallons sparge water? I dunk sparged in a separate vessel a few times and decided the effort wasn't worth the reward of saving $1 worth of grain. Jmo

If I need to sparge a little to adjust volume, I just gently and slowly pour sparge wayer over the bag as it is draining into the kettle....easy peasy.

 

[doug293cz]

Just curious...I always hear about "dunk sparge" in BIAB. How is that different from batch sparging (or is it)?

Dunk sparging IS batch sparging. Remember in traditional 3 vessel, you move the wort around. In BIAB, you move the grain around.

Brew on

 

[chickypad]

What doug said. Though it's a little more than just dunking, to get good efficiency open the bag and stir like crazy as in a regular batch sparge.

 

[rtracer]

Ok, so it sounds like the most common suggestion would be to basically do what I said except lift bag from Keggle, let her drip drain for a while, squeeze....then bring bag over to 8g kettle drop in, stir a bit. tea bag her, drain, then dump the liquid into the keggle?

What about doing the above process, then bringing the bag back to my pulley over the keggle, then pouring the dunk sparged water through the bag into the keggle. Or would that be a wate of time?

 

[rtracer]

If you think you will be going to mainly 10 gallon batches, consider ditching the keg in favor of a 20 gallon kettle.

Large grain bills can be tricky to remove from the narrow top opening of a keggle.

Or make the keggle opening as large as possible.

Yes, that is optimal, but I just got my starter kit with 8 gallon kettle in March, moved to Keggle in April. Don't think I could pass a third upgrade by the wifey lol.
Gotta make due with what I got ....for now

 

[douglasbarbin]

Yes, that is optimal, but I just got my starter kit with 8 gallon kettle in March, moved to Keggle in April. Don't think I could pass a third upgrade by the wifey lol.
Gotta make due with what I got ....for now

Remember this, because it might be the most important thing that you learn as a homebrewer: It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission!

 

[chickypad]

What about doing the above process, then bringing the bag back to my pulley over the keggle, then pouring the dunk sparged water through the bag into the keggle. Or would that be a wate of time?

I think that would be a waste of time in terms of trying to get more sugars out. But more important at least for me is it's just awkward trying to sparge a bag. Makes most sense to either full volume mash or, if you don't have room, dunk sparge.

 

[doug293cz]

Ok, so it sounds like the most common suggestion would be to basically do what I said except lift bag from Keggle, let her drip drain for a while, squeeze....then bring bag over to 8g kettle drop in, stir a bit. tea bag her, drain, then dump the liquid into the keggle?

You want to stir more than a bit. You want to make sure you have a uniform sugar concentration throughout the mash, and not have concentrated wort hanging on the grits. Also, doesn't hurt to squeeze after sparging, but you do get the most benefit from squeezing after the mash draining.

What about doing the above process, then bringing the bag back to my pulley over the keggle, then pouring the dunk sparged water through the bag into the keggle. Or would that be a wate of time?

If you have stirred sufficiently prior to pulling the bag after the sparge, then there is zero benefit to pouring the sparged wort back over the grains.

Brew on

 

[hezagenius]

Also, when/if you dunk, don't literally drop the bag into the dunk sparge vessel. You will get splashed with hot liquid and lose some wort in the process.

 

[rtracer]

Also, when/if you dunk, don't literally drop the bag into the dunk sparge vessel. You will get splashed with hot liquid and lose some wort in the process.

That'd be a slam dunk sparge :rockin:

 

[applescrap]

Sweet thread. Yep, put bag in THEN add water if you are cutting it close. With one of the good bags as mentioned you could use a winch and get the whole deal out at once. My plan was to use two or maybe 3 bags and dunk them one at a time. There is a video floating around of a guy doing 10 gallons in a keggle sids easy 10 gallon or something. Although some of what he's doing is questionable I like the idea of multiple bags I think you could do it and go 15 gallons. Ultimately I have decided i like variety and can live with 5 gallons. My plan was 12 gallons water in my 15 gallon kettle, and dunk with rest. I stir after dunking and squeeze.