Ethical/moral dilemma on "beer brewing research grant"

[doctorRobert]

People should have better things to do than care if somebody maybe possibly gave you some cash for beer.

That's too little money.


Just like with all things illegal, the way to get in trouble is to mess up on your taxes. But $200 isn't even enough for the IRS to even kick the wheels.

 

[Homercidal]

Actually another group cares whether or not homebewers sell their beer or not, the brewing industry. I'll bet you dollars to donuts, that if a large amount of homebrewers started doing it, the big guys would be all over us in a heartbeat.

And don't think it's just BMC that would (and probably is) trying to stop us, but craft breweries as well. That's why we'll never be able to sell at farmer's markets, like some folks seem to think we should. We've talked about that before.

Yeah, you're right. But I know a lot of brewers who support homebrewing and recognize that homebrewers are more likely to spend more $$ on craft beer than pretty much everyone else.

Yet I bet most of those guys would be against allowing even a limited amount of homebrew to be sold, such as the farmers market principal.

And the triple irony is that I would BET MONEY that most of those guys probably took a few dollars for their efforts before they went pro.

I can see their point. It's like saying you can't sing the blue until you've lived them. Gotta pay your dues.

 

[cockybitz]

1. spend the money on equipment.
2. Next time they are over thank them for the XXXXXX.
3. Enjoy a homebrew.

See, no exchange for beer. Just a gift. I mean, who doesn't need an extra freezer, or a turkey fryer, or an extra corny keg?

 

[Phunhog]

Revvy is right on with this one. The brewing industry, including micros, does not want competition. Especially competition that doesn't have to jump through all hoops and red tape that they have to deal with. There is certainly nothing immoral or unethical about homebrewers selling beer. It is against the law purely for political reasons. Just look how hard it is to start a legal micro in some states.

 

[FromZwolle]

Yeah, you're right. But I know a lot of brewers who support homebrewing and recognize that homebrewers are more likely to spend more $$ on craft beer than pretty much everyone else.

Yet I bet most of those guys would be against allowing even a limited amount of homebrew to be sold, such as the farmers market principal.

And the triple irony is that I would BET MONEY that most of those guys probably took a few dollars for their efforts before they went pro.

I can see their point. It's like saying you can't sing the blue until you've lived them. Gotta pay your dues.

it would be super neat to be able to barter with homebrew at farmers markets. there's usually some good cheeses and a decent Q stand at the ones in my area. it'll never happen, but it would be cool.

 

[Homercidal]

it would be super neat to be able to barter with homebrew at farmers markets. there's usually some good cheeses and a decent Q stand at the ones in my area. it'll never happen, but it would be cool.

Yeah, I would totally be down with that! Starting to make hard cheese now, and some no-knead bread. I could see myself getting fat by hanging out at the Farmer's Market!

 

[MazdaMatt]

There's little in this world that I appreciate more than appreciation.

In that spirit, I'd take that 200, buy a regulator, a keg, a paintball CO2 tank and a picnic tap, a grain bill of his favorite beer, fill up the keg and deliver the whole setup and say "thanks for your appreciation of my homebrew".

edit - ps, you'd be a retard if you listed it on your taxes. Geez.

 

[Spartan1979]

I'd be more worried about taking the money, making you a professional brewer and no longer able to enter amateur competitions.


j/k

 

[Phunhog]

Here is how I am dealing with the situation. I have made up some brewery t-shirts that I sell for a little bit of profit. The profit is enough that it covers the cost of making the beer. I even went so far as to contact my local ABC to make sure it is ok. They said that as long as I am not selling beer or using the t-shirts as a "ticket" then they don't care what I sell. There is a lot of love out there for homebrewers and I found out that people WILL support you. I have sold a lot of t-shirts to people who have never met me....let alone had my beer. They just want to support the "local" brewery and get a cool t-shirt.

 

[brewit2it]

My three thoughts.

1: They wrote the check. Either because of
A: They can afford it, and know what it takes to produce the beer you give them.
B: You whined about how much it costs for the beer you make and they feel guilty.
C: They think they're in your debt for all the beer you gave them, and want to repay 'somehow'
Only you know the actual case.

2: From their perspective. "Holy S! 8 CASES of hand-made craft beer for $200! WHOO HOOTERS!"

3: Cash it, and make a batch of beer in their honor, or name a batch for them (if you do that, make sure it's sneaky so other friends don't ask, "Why is this one's called Sam's brew? WTF did he do to deserve a beer named for him?") Or buy some equipment for the brewery and mention it next time they're over.


Personally, in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't cash it. My friends can drink all the beer they want at my place, no charge, ever.

B

I agree, accept the check graciously so your friend gets the credit of the gift but then don't cash it. If he asks why you didn't cash it just tell him you really appreciate the thought but it is your choice and pleasure to share your beer so you wouldn't feel right about accepting payment.

 

[doctorRobert]

I think most of you are nuts. Cash the check. Youre not selling beer.

You need a permit to sell food. if you invite friends over for dinner, and they bring wine, do you not accept because it could be construed in some weird way to mean you exchanged food for wine, as if you sold it?

 

[Airborneguy]

Here is how I am dealing with the situation. I have made up some brewery t-shirts that I sell for a little bit of profit. The profit is enough that it covers the cost of making the beer. I even went so far as to contact my local ABC to make sure it is ok. They said that as long as I am not selling beer or using the t-shirts as a "ticket" then they don't care what I sell. There is a lot of love out there for homebrewers and I found out that people WILL support you. I have sold a lot of t-shirts to people who have never met me....let alone had my beer. They just want to support the "local" brewery and get a cool t-shirt.

One of the homebrewer booths at our local beerfest did that last year. They sold hats, glasses and stickers. If I remember correctly, at the end of the day they had sold almost everything. I got one of their stickers for free for being from another booth.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I think most of you are nuts. Cash the check. Youre not selling beer.

You need a permit to sell food. if you invite friends over for dinner, and they bring wine, do you not accept because it could be construed in some weird way to mean you exchanged food for wine, as if you sold it?

The quid pro quo nature of the exchange is what matters. In your example, two people are bringing stuff and sharing it. It is not transactional. When an item is sold -- or bartered -- the buyer and seller do not communally enjoy the product. Each takes what they have obtained from the transaction to their exclusive benefit.

You can judge the situation with reasonableness. Is the money intended to be an exchange -- even an unintentional one -- for the beer? Maybe the gifting friends intended to give the money as a general thank you for letting them come over, use electricity, watch TV, eat food, sample homebrew, etc. In that case, it is likely to be an unrelated gift from one friend to another.

 

[msa8967]

There has never been any intent on my part when I give beer away to my friends and neighbors to expect anything in exchange for it. When I started giving away larger amounts of beer to my friends I explained that my motivation was/is:

1. There is no possible way I (and my wife) could drink all of the beer that I brew.
2. The act of brewing and learning about better brewing methods has done more for me than any psycho-therapy would ever be able to do. Plus the fact that it is much cheaper.
3. In my job as a teacher I do not produce a tangible/physical/tactile product that I can say I am proud of and measure my own sense of improvement with.

Their $200 grant/gift was very generous and in no possible way have I ever mentioned how expensive making the beer is. In fact, I have probably bragged a bit about how going all grain, washing yeast and doing a group grain purchase has brought the cost of my brewing down to under $15-20 per 5 gallons.

The last time I gave them beer (about 2 1/2 cases) was three weeks ago when we learned that my wife was expecting and thus most of the bottled beer needed to be given away before it turned to the darkside. They returned some bottles yesterday with a nice thank you card and this $200 check of appreciation which I never expected from anyone.

It is interesting to read some many different points of view on this topic, especially about not being able to sell home brew at farmer's markets.

 

[BlackJaqueJanaviac]

I would take it exactly at face value. As far as I know there is nothing illegal about a grant for researching brewing.

Using the money for anything other than research and self-improvement would be an insult to your friends. Just like using money given specifically to treat yourself to dinner would be insulting to use it to pay the electric bill.

I don't think the ATF can get your for accepting grant money you're not selling beer. The IRS might consider it "income" but $200 shouldn't kick you into another tax bracket.

I don't buy any of the "namby-pamby" or "it's only illegal when you get caught" stuff. That kind of thinking is Machiavellian and very bad.

So use the money to buy some brewing books, equipment, and if you use it to buy ingredients it should be for experimental purposes. To use the money to buy ingredients for an "old stand-by" recipe would not be appropriate (unless you're attempting to improve an old stand-by).

 

[luke2080]

3. In my job as a teacher I do not produce a tangible/physical/tactile product that I can say I am proud of and measure my own sense of improvement with.

Umm...maybe measure yourself via the grades of your kids? For instance "last year 4 dumb kids flunked out. This year only 2 did!"

 

[Rahahb]

How is this even an issue? Lol

RDWHAHB for real man. :cross:

 

[TomHanx]

yeah how did this turn into a 70 post thread? take the money. im not a lawyer but theres no law against giving friends money. i wish mine would be so generous and start paying for there share of "our" brews.

 

[THart]

Totally illegal in Iowa, as are most good things <(}>:{