Equipment is Coming in, and so are the questions.

[Justintoxicated]

Got the rest of my equipment and I'm ready to brew. I have some Sanitizing questions though:

My Stainless wart chiller says that residual oils need to be removed from it with some sort of cleaner. Kirkland laundry detergent strong enough? Oil Eater? Not sure what is acceptable.

Also what is the best way to sanitize the auto siphon and tubing I would imagine siphoning some solution out of a a bucket with cleaner would work?

Also curious about how to pour from the brew-pot to the 6.5 gallon carboy primary. I bought a very large funnel from autozone, but pouring from the pot still seems like it could will be a challenge, but maybe not since it should be cool enough to touch by that time.

Any other tips before I get started? Do I need to calibrate the hydrometer?

Friend says I do not need a yeast starter when using white labs..?

 

[jbaysurfer]

Don't pour, siphon. Unless you have a valve, then attach a hose to the valve and direct it into the carboy.

For the residual oils, my instinct says orange cleaner or similar, but I'd ask somebody else. I'd use PBW, but I think you're just using oxyclean, and really have no idea if either would work.

For the siphon, yes. Siphon some sanitizer into it, and leave it full of sanitizer while you soak the outside. Keep the outside of the tubing wet w/ sanitizer and clean as well. It's going into your fermenter.

You can check your hydrometers callibration in a test jar full of distilled h20, should read 1.000 at room temp. If it's off though, there's little you can do to fix it, other then make mental corrections. But in the end, your hydrometer measures you OG and FG to determine ABV. Callibrated or not, it should give you fairly accurate ABV measures...because if it's 2 1000ths low on the OG measurement, it'll be 2/1000ths on the FG and the ABV will be the same.

GL. You're doing it the smart way IMHO. Thoughtfully buying what you'll need and can grow with. So many of us end up buying the same piece of equipment 3 times because we try to do it cheap, then we try to do it right, then we want to brew bigger batches.

Edit: Don't listen to your friend. If you're using a liquid yeast, you need a starter. If for no other reason then to "proof" (make sure the yeast is alive and viable) it. Check mrmalty.com for a calculator.

 

[reed1099]

Yes siphoning sanitized solution from a bucket, hopefully your fermenter, will work perfect.

 

[emjay]

[*] 1 x The Brew Hauler Carboy Carrier $5.50

Is this price a mistake? I have a Brew Hauler already but I would buy one for EVERY carboy at the price. It can't be correct... but if it is, let me know where

 

[Justintoxicated]

I want to get started now, but it might have to wait till this weekend since I have plans tomorrow night. Plus I don't have a starter yet or a decent jar for creating one. I need to clean out the new 6.5 gallon carboy too, although it looks spotless.

I'm not sure whether to make a blow off valve or just use an airlock on the primary I'll at least see what I can rig up for a blowoff valve tonight.

 

[Dan]

Looks like a great list but chuck the carboy and buy as many buckets you can for the same price along with lids and a few drilled bungs and some more tubing.

 

[CBXBob]

If over thinking is a virtue, you my new brewing friend, are a Saint. My first brewing adventure was a starter brew kit for $79. Bucket, Stainless pot, thermometer, hydrometer, beer thief, tubing and racking cane, caps and capper. And a $29. extract kit, with instructions. didn't aerate, sprinkled the dry yeast on top of the wort. Turned out fabulous. Yes I have three times (maybe 4) that amount of equipment now, read the books, spend time on the forum. 50 gallons in, and have yet to make a beer that was better than that first one. Go figure.

 

[emjay]

Edit: Don't listen to your friend. If you're using a liquid yeast, you need a starter. If for no other reason then to "proof" (make sure the yeast is alive and viable) it. Check mrmalty.com for a calculator.

That's not at the reason you want to make a starter. In fact, the vast majority of experienced brewers don't care about proofing AT ALL (otherwise White Labs would be at a *serious* disadvantage to the Wyeast smackpack!) I know it may seem like I'm nitpicking, but I'm saying this so that a brewer who doesn't care about proofing won't get the idea that it's then okay to carry on without a starter, which is what your wording suggests.

The thing is, you DO always want to make a starter with liquid yeasts, but it's in order to maximize *vitality* (ie yeast health; separate concept from viability). And in most cases, you also want to increase the count of viable cells. Proofing is just a (very) minor side-benefit.

I can see why his friend believes a starter isn't necessary, though; both White Labs and Wyeast have marketed their ~100B-cell packages as not requiring a starter. Even then, they state that this only applies to 5 gallon batches with an OG of 1.060 or less. A bit of math comes up with a more useful guideline of 300 gravity points at *any* batch size, up to a concentration not exceeding the strain's alcohol tolerance. But while it's true that it will make beer just fine at this pitching rate, it's not optimal. You will almost always get better results making a starter appropriate to the volume and gravity of your wort, even if you pitch the yeast on the exact same day it came out of the plant (ie maximum viability). Even if your batch is so small and/or your gravity is low enough that the number of viable cells in the package should be adequate, it's still best to make a starter in order to maximize vitality, as I mentioned above.

The reason these companies say a starter isn't required is simple: it's all about being competitive. If a new brewer looks at one brand of yeast that says it requires a starter, and another brand of yeast that says it doesn't, even if the yeasts are exactly the same, guess which one he is going to pick? The one that's supposedly easier to use, of course. And since the yeast will still ferment wort anyways, there's no downside for the company to say that no starter is required. And the companies know that brewers who care enough about their beer for optimal performance to matter will do enough research to know that a starter is always a good idea. Hell, both Chris White and the owner of Wyeast repeatedly say so themselves that this is true. And the dry yeast manufacturers are no different - the directions they provide on the packet are *much* simpler than the procedure they describe on their website or give to professional brewers.

Bottom line is that, strictly speaking, a starter isn't necessary - you can make beer even if you directly pitch the yeast. However, it can make such a significant difference that most experienced brewers these days essentially consider it to be necessary anyways, and wouldn't dream of pitching a vial or smackpack directly into their batch. Making a starter is easy enough and has so little downside that I'd recommend it to even the most casual of brewers, and CERTAINLY to anyone serious enough to be posting here.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Looks like a great list but chuck the carboy and buy as many buckets you can for the same price along with lids and a few drilled bungs and some more tubing.

Chuck a $55 Carboy? I will be using what I have for now, maybe I should have gone with a bucket, but then why would my buddy who uses buckets suggest just getting a glass carboy for a primary? I'd assume the difference isn't much other than the heafty weight of the carboy and the smaller opening, and that I can see the beer while it's fermenting?

The kit I purchased is in the OP, it only comes with what I need to make the beer. So it sounds like I will need to buy a few more things to make a starter?

http://billybrew.com/how-to-make-a-yeast-starter

So I need to buy additional Dry Malt Extract, or liquid malt extract?

I have a 1/2 gallon Carboy from some Stone BBQ Sauce I just finished off. (it was like $8 with the sauce what a good deal hah). I can use that for my starter right?

I'm a little worried about making this starter and screwing up the beer before I even get started.

Is this price a mistake? I have a Brew Hauler already but I would buy one for EVERY carboy at the price. It can't be correct... but if it is, let me know where

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=brew++hauler

I was already ordering other stuff from them, so I saved on shipping. I will probably grab 3 more next payday, I realize how screwed I would have been without this.

Don't pour, siphon. Unless you have a valve, then attach a hose to the valve and direct it into the carboy.

For the residual oils, my instinct says orange cleaner or similar, but I'd ask somebody else. I'd use PBW, but I think you're just using oxyclean, and really have no idea if either would work.

Not sure what Orange Cleaner is, I think I might try to hit it with some oil eater or something then hot water and soapy scrub again and call it good? I'm real curious to see how this thing works.

 

[emjay]

I was already ordering other stuff from them, so I saved on shipping. I will probably grab 3 more next payday, I realize how screwed I would have been without this.

How did you save on shipping? I added 6 to my cart and it just multiplies the $5 shipping by 6. $30 for what should be a very small and light package is crazy.

 

[Justintoxicated]

How did you save on shipping? I added 6 to my cart and it just multiplies the $5 shipping by 6. $30 for what should be a very small and light package is crazy.

I thought I saved, although it was a bit hard to tell due to the size of the order...

 

[emjay]

I thought I saved, although it was a bit hard to tell due to the size of the order...

Ah, okay. It's still a pretty good price, but as I'm in Canada, and the seller doesn't ship here, I'd have to use a forwarding service to get it here. So with the $5/unit shipping plus forwarding costs, it'll come out to an average price at best. Sucks, as I've been wanting to get more than just the one I have so that I could just leave them on full carboys, but didn't want to spend triple digits. Oh well...

 

[jbaysurfer]

That's not at the reason you want to make a starter. In fact, the vast majority of experienced brewers don't care about proofing AT ALL (otherwise White Labs would be at a *serious* disadvantage to the Wyeast smackpack!) I know it may seem like I'm nitpicking, but I'm saying this so that a brewer who doesn't care about proofing won't get the idea that it's then okay to carry on without a starter, which is what your wording suggests.

The thing is, you DO always want to make a starter with liquid yeasts, but it's in order to maximize *vitality* (ie yeast health; separate concept from viability). And in most cases, you also want to increase the count of viable cells. Proofing is just a (very) minor side-benefit.

I can see why his friend believes a starter isn't necessary, though; both White Labs and Wyeast have marketed their ~100B-cell packages as not requiring a starter. Even then, they state that this only applies to 5 gallon batches with an OG of 1.060 or less. A bit of math comes up with a more useful guideline of 300 gravity points at *any* batch size, up to a concentration not exceeding the strain's alcohol tolerance. But while it's true that it will make beer just fine at this pitching rate, it's not optimal. You will almost always get better results making a starter appropriate to the volume and gravity of your wort, even if you pitch the yeast on the exact same day it came out of the plant (ie maximum viability). Even if your batch is so small and/or your gravity is low enough that the number of viable cells in the package should be adequate, it's still best to make a starter in order to maximize vitality, as I mentioned above.

The reason these companies say a starter isn't required is simple: it's all about being competitive. If a new brewer looks at one brand of yeast that says it requires a starter, and another brand of yeast that says it doesn't, even if the yeasts are exactly the same, guess which one he is going to pick? The one that's supposedly easier to use, of course. And since the yeast will still ferment wort anyways, there's no downside for the company to say that no starter is required. And the companies know that brewers who care enough about their beer for optimal performance to matter will do enough research to know that a starter is always a good idea. Hell, both Chris White and the owner of Wyeast repeatedly say so themselves that this is true. And the dry yeast manufacturers are no different - the directions they provide on the packet are *much* simpler than the procedure they describe on their website or give to professional brewers.

Bottom line is that, strictly speaking, a starter isn't necessary - you can make beer even if you directly pitch the yeast. However, it can make such a significant difference that most experienced brewers these days essentially consider it to be necessary anyways, and wouldn't dream of pitching a vial or smackpack directly into their batch. Making a starter is easy enough and has so little downside that I'd recommend it to even the most casual of brewers, and CERTAINLY to anyone serious enough to be posting here.

Well I said that ("if for no other reason") so I could cover all the angles and not have to write an essay to justify my reasoning. So much for that. I guess next time I'll leave it at "ignore your friend, always make a starter".

 

[Justintoxicated]

To make my starter do I need to find the same LME as the recipe kit calls for? How much would I need to use?

Can I simply remove 3/4 cup from the recipe kit and just pitch the entire starter so that I on't have to order more DME/LME?

If I end up having to wait till this weekend to start my starter, or worse yet place an order online and wait another 1-2 weeks this is really going to delay getting started...

 

[snccoulter]

Looks like a great list but chuck the carboy and buy as many buckets you can for the same price along with lids and a few drilled bungs and some more tubing.

I agree with Dan. but would go one step further. Do not use the carboy that is chipped it will become a hazard the first time you pick it up let alone fill it.
here is just one example... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f85/carboy-brewing-accident-313454/

 

[Justintoxicated]

I wish i would have known that before i spent over $100. What exactly should i do now? List everything i just bought on craigslist the 6.5 gallon for 1/2 price and wait another month to start brewing?

 

[emjay]

I wish i would have known that before i spent over $100. What exactly should i do now? List everything i just bought on craigslist the 6.5 gallon for 1/2 price and wait another month to start brewing?

Just use the damn carboy. The brew hauler is great for lugging it around. Just be aware of your environment while carrying it.

Edit: Oops. I wouldn't recommend using the one with a chip. Get a white food-grade bucket at Wal-Mart or Home Depot and ferment in that. Or ferment in a 5gal carboy if you can set up a blowoff tube.

 

[CBXBob]

To make my starter do I need to find the same LME as the recipe kit calls for? How much would I need to use?

Can I simply remove 3/4 cup from the recipe kit and just pitch the entire starter so that I on't have to order more DME/LME?

If I end up having to wait till this weekend to start my starter, or worse yet place an order online and wait another 1-2 weeks this is really going to delay getting started...

MY opinion, use part of your recipe kit for a starter, put it in a pot, boil it, cool it to pitching temp, add yeast, cover with foil or saran wrap, it should be active in a matter of hours at room temp.
Then just do it. There is no better way to start brewing than to start brewing. The absolute worst thing that can happen is that it won't be perfect. But you can work from there. You can get everything right in theory, but screw it up in practice. And vise versa. You can think it to death, or just do it. Just do it, how ever it goes, it will be your entry in to the not so perfect world of home brewing. So again, my advise "JUST DO IT" go past the thinking it, to the doing it. It will just get easier from there.

 

[Justintoxicated]

I found some DME at another HBS that was open on the 4th, I also sound corn sugar there for my apfelwein.

I made a starter last night, but I screwed it up a little. When I opened the yeast vial it sort of poped/exploded and i lost maybe 20% of the contents... I also used 900ml of water and 1/2 cup of DME, which may have been incorrect, I'm not sure. I didn't see any fermentation going on this morning when I got up.

I poured the dry yeast right into the apfelwein rather than making a starter. I also did not see any fermentation either although that one I put right into the fermentation chamber with probe in the air temp set for 66 while the starter I left on the counter.

As far as equipment questions, I'm wondering how hydrometer readings are typically taken, is wort siphoned out of the carboy into the test container? Seems like a risk for infections....

 

[unionrdr]

As long as your equipment is clean & sanitized,you can siphon your hydrometer sample without worry. Pitching dry yeast can take a little longer to get through the reproductive phase & start initial fermentation.
When opening those yeast vials,crack it slightly to let some co2 pressure out,then re-tighten. Repeat as needed to burp off the gas pressure. Then open & pour.

 

[Justintoxicated]

As long as your equipment is clean & sanitized,you can siphon your hydrometer sample without worry. Pitching dry yeast can take a little longer to get through the reproductive phase & start initial fermentation.
When opening those yeast vials,crack it slightly to let some co2 pressure out,then re-tighten. Repeat as needed to burp off the gas pressure. Then open & pour.

Good to know. Interestingly, the dry yeast is fermenting away at the apfelwein, but I have yet to see any action from the starter I created from whitelabs in the beer kit.

 

[unionrdr]

Hmm...how long did you leave tyhe starter to work? How strong was it? I kept swirling mine occasionally to kep it in suspension.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Hmm...how long did you leave tyhe starter to work? How strong was it? I kept swirling mine occasionally to kep it in suspension.

It will be almost 48 hours when I get home tonight. I didn't take a gravity reading but I mixed 900ml of water with 1/2 cut of light DME.

 

[unionrdr]

It should've gone through that in 24 hours. Seems to me the guy from white labs said on youtube that starters don't need to go more than 24 hours. Maybe look those vids up. He has one where he talks about starters.

 

[Justintoxicated]

I'm not sure which video your referring to but I found a whole bunch like this one.


Some people said maybe i missed it but shouldn't I see krausen either on top or below?
Seems fishy to me that I would get bad yeast on my first attempt at brewing or is this common?

it is While Labs European Ale WLP011

Not sure whether to add my starter anyways or go try to match it up this weekend. Or brew the beer and toss it in, then if nothing happens order more online?

 

[Justintoxicated]

So the first batch in in the fermentation chamber. Everything went pretty smooth other than a near boil over after adding hops, and a small mishap when using the chiller.

When I turned on the water on the laundry sink one of the hose connections on the chiller leaked a little and shot a small amount of water into the wart . I hope it turns out ok still. I tightened the hose clamp down but it still seems to want to leak so I will to look into this before the next batch. I did test it first without issues before brewing but this happened anyways, probably because the tubing softened due to the boil.

Now I was going to use my fishtank CO2 bottle, a 15lb Steel Co2 Tank, but it will not fit in the chest without taking up a keg slot, so I might have to pickup a bottle anyways. But then do I get a 5 or 10 gallon, as I have not figured out how to build a collar for it yet, I might have to get a 5 gallon tank...

My Regulator is a basic single one so I think I may need to purchase a double regulator as well? Or maybe all I need is a spliter with a valve? I'm thinking a dual regulator might be more useful though.

 

[jbaysurfer]

So the first batch in in the fermentation chamber. Everything went pretty smooth other than a near boil over after adding hops, and a small mishap when using the chiller.

When I turned on the water on the laundry sink one of the hose connections on the chiller leaked a little and shot a small amount of water into the wart . I hope it turns out ok still. I tightened the hose clamp down but it still seems to want to leak so I will to look into this before the next batch. I did test it first without issues before brewing but this happened anyways, probably because the tubing softened due to the boil.

Now I was going to use my fishtank CO2 bottle, a 15lb Steel Co2 Tank, but it will not fit in the chest without taking up a keg slot, so I might have to pickup a bottle anyways. But then do I get a 5 or 10 gallon, as I have not figured out how to build a collar for it yet, I might have to get a 5 gallon tank...

My Regulator is a basic single one so I think I may need to purchase a double regulator as well? Or maybe all I need is a spliter with a valve? I'm thinking a dual regulator might be more useful though.

LOL...I guess I'm following your brewing career on two threads.

If it helps at all, that EXACT same thing happened to me with my first batch and my coil chiller and it turned out fine. Well, it wasn't great beer, but the downfall wasn't an infection it was a grain steeping time and temp issue.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Beer fermentation is calming down. Apfelwein seems to still be fermenting.


Untitled by Glamisduner, on Flickr

I want to buy a Co2 tank that will fit inside the freezer I purchased (Hair from costco 7.1 cuft).


I have an 5lb older steel tank (about 16" tall or 17 with the regulator). I'm using for it for one planted fish tank. I have another that is also steel and 15lb lbs for another fishtank but its too tall to fit on the shelf (27").

I measured height of the freezer near the shelf at about 18.5" or slightly under that. From the floor I have about 27.5".

I'm thinking my only real option is to get a 5lb tank for inside the freezer and hope it fits with this regulator I already have? Then switch over to the 15lb tank and leave it external once I build a collar? (if I can ever figure out how to do that). A 10lb tank would also fit.

The 5 lb tanks are more practical for fish tanks as the 15lb one lasts nearly forever for dissolving CO2 for the plants.

I'm just not sure what size to get. A 5lb aluminum "might" fit on the shelf, but I have the steel 5lb tank for backup cause that one will fit for sure.

Also here is my regulator, not sure if it is mod-able or what not.

Untitled by Glamisduner, on Flickr
It's a North American Dispense Systems Inc regulator model 70012. It came with one of the C02 tanks but I have never used it, as it is not suitable for fish tanks.
Should I just buy a manifold for it for now? Would I be better off getting something like this?
http://stores.kegconnection.com/Categories.bok?category=*Components:Parts

Or should I go right for something like this?
http://stores.kegconnection.com/Detail.bok?no=53

Or just buy a new regulator?

Then attaching my existing regulator to the end of it later? Or should I just get something like this to take care of the 2 kegs I currently have?

I do feel limited on space as I can only ferment 2 carboys at once, and then the freezer needs to change over to refrigeration mode but maybe in the winter I can get 4 kegs in there at once.


I guess it would never hurt to have a spare 5lb tank around?


Please Advise!

 

[unionrdr]

Most of those starter vids are fairly practical,but the WhiteLabs vids were more exacting info. Theywere listed under white labs' so n so (forget his name).

 

[jbaysurfer]

Beer fermentation is calming down. Apfelwein seems to still be fermenting.


Untitled by Glamisduner, on Flickr

I want to buy a Co2 tank that will fit inside the freezer I purchased (Hair from costco 7.1 cuft).


I have an 5lb older steel tank (about 16" tall or 17 with the regulator). I'm using for it for one planted fish tank. I have another that is also steel and 15lb lbs for another fishtank but its too tall to fit on the shelf (27").

I measured height of the freezer near the shelf at about 18.5" or slightly under that. From the floor I have about 27.5".

I'm thinking my only real option is to get a 5lb tank for inside the freezer and hope it fits with this regulator I already have? Then switch over to the 15lb tank and leave it external once I build a collar? (if I can ever figure out how to do that). A 10lb tank would also fit.

The 5 lb tanks are more practical for fish tanks as the 15lb one lasts nearly forever for dissolving CO2 for the plants.

I'm just not sure what size to get. A 5lb aluminum "might" fit on the shelf, but I have the steel 5lb tank for backup cause that one will fit for sure.

Also here is my regulator, not sure if it is mod-able or what not.

Untitled by Glamisduner, on Flickr
It's a North American Dispense Systems Inc regulator model 70012. It came with one of the C02 tanks but I have never used it, as it is not suitable for fish tanks.
Should I just buy a manifold for it for now? Would I be better off getting something like this?
http://stores.kegconnection.com/Categories.bok?category=*Components:Parts

Or should I go right for something like this?
http://stores.kegconnection.com/Detail.bok?no=53

Or just buy a new regulator?

Then attaching my existing regulator to the end of it later? Or should I just get something like this to take care of the 2 kegs I currently have?

I do feel limited on space as I can only ferment 2 carboys at once, and then the freezer needs to change over to refrigeration mode but maybe in the winter I can get 4 kegs in there at once.


I guess it would never hurt to have a spare 5lb tank around?


Please Advise!

I'd go 5lb. Your regulator will fit. I use a 5lb tank in my dual tap kegerator, and I use it to force carb, and to carbonate beer in PET bottles with a carbonator cap. It lasts a long time doing all that, and it's not that expensive to fill when it does kick. I also have a fridge in the garage w/ 4 kegs on a 5lb tank, and it also lasts a long time. Lastly, I have a 3rd 5lb tank that is for "utility use". Force carbing when I need it. Flushing kegs with PBW and Sanitizer, etc.

Your last line couldn't be more topical. It never hurts to have a spare 5lb around, and it definitely helps!!!