Entering my first competition- need a GREAT IPA idea!

[ThinBrewLine]

I'm with m00ps, I think your hop schedule is too busy. I'd cut the 45 & 30 min additions out completely, if you want the IBUs just add them at 60. The end of the schedule is needlessly busy as well, I'd combine the 20 & 15 min additions into just a 15 min addition and combine the 10 and 5 min additions into just a 5 min addition. Hopstand and dry hop look okay, Cascade doesn't do much for me but to each his own.

My $0.02.

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2012/08/ibus-in-ipas-misconceptions-about-how.html
So I thought that by less boil time, they would be less bitter, and more boil time and the beta and a lot of aroma disapears. I'm probably wrong. Hops chemistry is not my strong point as a brewer.
?????

 

[ThinBrewLine]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh



"...conventional wisdom these days is not not use any hops between 60 minutes and ~20 minutes. Because, again: anything added before 20 minutes will mostly lose its flavor and aroma, and the amount of bitterness you'll get from a 30 minute addition could be achieved with even fewer hops added at 60 minutes."

 

[TheHopfather]

Anything from 60 to 30 min is going to give you bitterness, and little to no flavor. I'd just add up how many IBU's you're looking for from those first 3 additions and add that many IBU's worth of hops at 60 min.

Anything from 30 to 0 min is going to give you flavor and aroma with some bitterness. The less amount of time in the boil the more flavor/aroma you're going to get and the less bitterness. The schedule you have now will work, its just unnecessarily busy. You can achieve the same thing with less additions and have a less hectic brew day. If you are thinking that adding hops every 5 or 10 minutes will get you added complexity to the finished beer you might be disappointed. It may add some but not a ton.

 

[ThinBrewLine]

OK THEN! Thanks Hopfather!

Draft #4

Grain Bill:
12# pale/ maris otter
1# Vienna
1# Munich
8oz. Wheat
4oz crystal

Hops Shedule:
@ 60min .1oz Columbus
@ 60min .50 Centennial
@60min .50 Centennial
@ 15min 1 oz Centennial
@ 15min 1oz Simcoe
@ 5min 1oz Chinook
@ 5min 2oz Amarillo
@F/O 2 oz Cascade and whirlpool a while

Dry hop 2 oz Mosaic for 10 days

Yeast: WLP-001

Mashed @ 150-152F for 60 min
60 min boil

Single fermentation @ 67F

Please be sure to keep your thoughts coming.

 

[ThinBrewLine]

Anyone ever used NZ Rakua, or any of the Styian hops before? They were on the "hops Wheel" for piney flavor....

 

[TheHopfather]

I find it helpful to remember that IBU's are just a measure of how bitter your beer will be. Modern IPA's are focused on getting hop flavor (oils) into the beer and IBU's don't calculate that. Don't be afraid of throwing in a ton of hops at or near the end of the boil.

 

[MindenMan]

I would not ferment @ 67F, I would stay below 65*F. If it were me I would aerate well (I only splash aerate), and nutrient of some sort. My favorite is bakers yeast that has been boiled to kill the active yeast and leave the hulls for the ale yeast to eat along with a little DAP. I always ferment at the lowest temperature rating of the yeast I am using, (generally 1084 or 1968) and I make a healthy starter w/o a stir plate.

 

[olotti]

This is just my opinion on some IPAs I've made and I apologize I didn't want to read through the the whole thread at this point, also I've only been in AG for almost a year but I brew a lot so I experiment a lot. If you use marries otter than I'd drop either the Vienna or Munich, MO has a bigger body to me than just pale 2 row so added grains aren't all that necessary unless you like a sweet malt backbone and even then I like Vienna for its biscuit but subtle notes plus you have some crystal I wouldn't go over c20 then it'll be to sweet agin in my opinion. I'd also add some carapils like 4oz for head retention. For hops when you say summer with pine I immediately think a no frills bittering hop like warrior or magnum then finish with simcoe, mosaic and Galaxy. For an IPA depends on your abv but in the 6-7% range I usually shoot for about 65-70 Ibus so you could do a 15 min of simcoe then a 10 of mosaic then 5 min Galaxy then a 3 oz hop stand with all 3. I also usually dry hop with 3-4 oz for a 5 gal batch and u can do whatever all mosaic all Galaxy all simcoe but a mix would prob be nice too. Make a starter so the 001 chews through it and try not to let it get above 68 although I think 001 is pretty forgiving if it gets a little higher but I'd try against that happening. Just more food for thought.

 

[Redlantern]

I would not ferment @ 67F, I would stay below 65*F.

Especially for the first few days with the most active fermentation. My last batch held the fermenter at 5°F or more over ambient for two days.

 

[ThinBrewLine]

So I've been tinkering a bit, and come up with this.
Thanks for your suggestions thus far!

Draft #5

Grain Bill:
13# pale/ maris otter
1# Munich
8oz. Wheat
3oz crystal
2oz Carapils


Hops Shedule:
@ 60min 1oz MAGNUM
@ 30min 1oz centennial
@ 15min 1 oz MOSAIC
@ 15min 1oz Simcoe
@ 5min 1oz Chinook
@ 5min 2oz Amarillo
@F/O 2 oz Cascade and whirlpool a while

Dry hop 2 oz CASCADE for 10 days

Yeast: WLP-001

Mashed @ 150-152F for 60 min
60 min boil

Single fermentation @ 65F

 

[mrdauber64]

My schedule for a great IPA(in my opinion anyways) has been:
100% Golden Promise
1 oz flavor hop FWH(I've done Cascade, Citra or Mosiac)
1 oz Bitter hop 60 min.(Columbus)
2 oz aroma/flavor hops 10 min.(Mosiac and Citra are an awesome combo)
2 oz aroma hop 5 min.(again, Mosiac and Citra)
2 oz aroma hop 30 min whirlpool starting at 175 degrees ending around 145 degrees(Mosiac and Citra again)
3 oz Dry hop in keg, or 5 days in Fermenter(2 oz Citra 1 oz Mosiac)

SG: 1.070
FG: 1.010 (mash low)

The Golden Promise lends just enough of a malt profile to back up the hops and the combo of Citra and Mosiac is outstanding! The FWH and and bittering addition provide a nice strong bitter bite, while the late hops give the flavor and aroma I want in an IPA. Probably not the pine notes you are looking for. But you could replace Citra and Mosiac with Simcoe and Amarillo. I just really like this schedule.

This is similar to one of my favorite commercial IPA's on the market, Todd the Axeman by Surly.

 

[m00ps]

Anyone ever used NZ Rakua, or any of the Styian hops before? They were on the "hops Wheel" for piney flavor....

Which styrian? Well either way, its not really suited for IPAs. The styrian family is basically all noble-ish hops. Youd need a lot of them to not get lost amongst the IPA hops.

Rakau does have a good amount of piney flavor. Pairs well with chinook, simcoe, columbus etc. I forgot to add that to my earlier list

 

[ThinBrewLine]

OK guys- I think this is it. Gonna be a brew weekend, so I'll be getting the ingredients Friday.

Anyone have any last minute change suggestions?

What about the yeast? I was thinking about San Diego Super but since I'm in no rush to hurry fermentation, I think I vWLP-001 is good.

Thanks again for all your suggestions!


Draft #6

Grain Bill:
7# pale 2 rowUS
6# maris otter
1# Munich
8oz. FlakedWheat
5oz crystal
8 oz sugar (Fro dryness)


Hops Shedule:
@ 60min 1oz MAGNUM
@ 30min 1oz centennial
@ 15min 1 oz MOSAIC
@ 15min 1oz Simcoe
@ 5min 1oz Chinook
@ 5min 2oz Amarillo
@F/O 3 oz Cascade and whirlpool a while

Single fermentation @ 68F (low end of WLP-001)
At Fermentation day 5- dry hop 2 oz Cascade leaf, then 2 oz Chinook leaf at kegging time.

Yeast: WLP-001

Mashed @ 150-152F for 60 min
60 min boil

)

 

[tallguybrewer]

Looks pretty good.

Just as an FYI...0.8% carapils will make no perceivable difference in the beer. Just up drop it an up the crystal to 4 oz. I am of the view that you should only add ingredients to beer if it has a purpose...that is, don't create complexity for complexity sake.

 

[BigMack]

Agreed on dropping the carapils. Probably even the crystal at such a low level.

Also, maybe try WLP 051/Wyeast 1272. I think it gives a little more character to IPAs that I love.

 

[kombat]

Agreed, the grain bill looks a little busy, but it's fine.

I didn't read the whole thread, but on the first page, didn't the OP indicate he wanted a big pine presence? Why the single ounce of Simcoe at 15 minutes?

Given that it's a competition, my general advice would be to overbuild your starter (or pitch multiple vials/packs, since it looks like you're brewing this this weekend and it's too late to do a starter now), brew it such that it's very fresh just in time for judging, and go over-the-top with the dry hops. 2 oz of Cascade would be fine, but if you really want to stand out, I'd just go ridiculous with it, like 6-8 oz of Simcoe for 4-5 days, then keg it and burst carb for 2 days, having it ready just in time for the competition. You'd have HUGE piney hop aroma. Control your fermentation temperatures carefully, aerate well.

 

[ThinBrewLine]

Awesome ideas-
I edited the above (draft 6) to reflect, and added some plain old sugar for dryness.

Anyone find that unnecessary?

 

[ThinBrewLine]

UPDATE:
It has been in the fermentor for 10 days. It has been dry hopped after 5 days, and will get an additional dry hop Saturday when I keg it.
It smells like the best damn IPA I have ever smelled!

So here is another question:
If the dry hops I put in at kegging time stay in there until April 8 submission time, will it be too grassy?
If so, should I just hold the beer in the sealed & o2 purged keg, and add the final dry hops a few days before submission?

 

[kombat]

If the dry hops I put in at kegging time stay in there until April 8 submission time, will it be too grassy?

In my experience, yes. Moreover, it's pointless. Most dry hop impact is imparted in the first 3-5 days. It's not like leaving them in there for 14 days would make it REALLY hopping. It maxes out after a week or so.

If so, should I just hold the beer in the sealed & o2 purged keg, and add the final dry hops a few days before submission?

Yes and no. Again, in my experience, a generous dry hop will cause some grassiness anyway, but that will fade after a week. So I would do this:

1. Keg, purge, and carbonate the beer.
2. 2 weeks before the submission deadline, add the remaining dry hops, in a sanitized hop sock, suspended in the keg with some sanitized dental floss you thread through the lid.
3. 7 days later, remove the hops
4. 7 days later, bottle the beer and submit to competition.

That should have the hop aroma right in the sweet spot upon submission. Hopefully, the entries don't sit around for too long before being judged.

 

[mrdauber64]

UPDATE:
So here is another question:
If the dry hops I put in at kegging time stay in there until April 8 submission time, will it be too grassy?
If so, should I just hold the beer in the sealed & o2 purged keg, and add the final dry hops a few days before submission?

No, from my experience when I dry hop in the keg at serving temps I never get grassy notes. I normally keep 3+ oz. in the keg for the duration of the keg(2 months sometimes). It does take longer to get the full effects of the dry hop(10 days) but the fresh hop aroma sticks around way longer!

 

[ThinBrewLine]

OK- the results are in, and............................

Out of 78 entrants, I got 27th.

Good to very good by the judges, but one judge obviously (yes I may be a bit biased) had no business judging ANY beer.

Overall, I am happy. This IPA was judged as a double/Imperial IPA as the ABV came out to 9.2%

THANKS TO YOU FOLKS WHO HELPED AND COACHED.