Embarrassing Results From First Brew Competition - What Went Wrong?

[inkman15]

I guess the one thing I'm still hung up on is the "metallic" flavor. I use stainless steel brew kettles and spring water. The MoreBeer guide says that metallic flavors come from using iron/aluminum or bad water. Shouldn't be the case here. Do I attribute this to the infection too?

 

[datamike]

Impossible to say at this point. Metallic flavors can be caused by a variety of things - water, yeast, contamination, hops, exposure to metals, or even a combination of things.

Yeast, in particular, can throw off a number of odd/off flavors in reaction to stress.

Also note that the term "spring water" is meaningless unless you know the mineral concentrations, alkalinity, etc. Maybe the water has a high iron content. If the water is low in alkalinity, a stout using a lot of dark malts can result in a ph that's too low. Did you check your mash PH?

In short, you need to first worry about consistently brewing a clean beer. Then you can concentrate on tweaking flavors, style points, etc.

Brewing beer is a process of many variables. The quality of the beer is determined by how many of those variables the brewer can control, and how closely he can control them.

Michael
BJCP National

I guess the one thing I'm still hung up on is the "metallic" flavor. I use stainless steel brew kettles and spring water. The MoreBeer guide says that metallic flavors come from using iron/aluminum or bad water. Shouldn't be the case here. Do I attribute this to the infection too?

 

[bottlebomber]

In short, you need to first worry about consistently brewing a clean beer. Then you can concentrate on tweaking flavors, style points, etc.

This. Also, new brewers have a tendency to want to brew a lot of different styles. I think its important to have at least a couple beers that you make again and again. That way you can actually see what is changing from beer to beer, and dial in your skills.

 

[datamike]

Completely agree.

Stop brewing "blackberry chai stouts, and apricot, ramen hefeweizens" and other bull**** flavored beers. This is a very common beginner mistake.

Pick a few classic styles that you like and work on *PROCESS*. Very important.

Even better if you can do it - brew the same recipe 4-5 times in a row. Change *ONE* thing each time based on how the previous batch turned out. You'll learn more doing this than making 20 different beers.

Michael
BJCP National

This. Also, new brewers have a tendency to want to brew a lot of different styles. I think its important to have at least a couple beers that you make again and again. That way you can actually see what is changing from beer to beer, and dial in your skills.

 

[Bmorebrew]

Pick a few classic styles that you like and work on *PROCESS*. Very important.

Even better if you can do it - brew the same recipe 4-5 times in a row. Change *ONE* thing each time based on how the previous batch turned out. You'll learn more doing this than making 20 different beers.

This is very important - what it really allows you to do is help remove inconsistencies from the process. It's been said here a bunch, but process is exceedingly important in making a clean beer. You need to make a clean beer before you can make a good beer. By making the same thing over and over, you really nail down certain things: you know exactly what temperature your strike water needs to be; you know exactly how much strike water to use; you know exactly what your expected BG and OG will be - and by extension your efficiency; you know exactly how many grams of hops to use to not have varying IBUs based on different efficiencies; you know how much yeast to use and what temps to ferment at; how long to wait; etc.

 

[atom]

Stop brewing "blackberry chai stouts, and apricot, ramen hefeweizens" and other bull**** flavored beers. This is a very common beginner mistake.

...but i love bull**** flavored beer...

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Never been to a competition, but are attributes like "baby diaper" common? Seems a little... well... rude... considering the judges didnt pay to drink it?

Sorry not stirring the pot, definitely talking out of school about something I know little about... but wouldnt "barnyard" or even "rubber and wet cotton" be descriptive without being jerkwad?

 

[datamike]

Not that common anymore, but in years past was quite common. It's not meant to be rude; it's just a perfect description of the aroma of a Enteric infected beer.

If you aren't comfortable hearing/reading objective criticism of your beer, don't enter competitions.

"Barnyard, rubber, wet cotton" are completely different. Enteric bacteria gives off a sulfury, mercaptan aroma very similar to a dirty diaper. "Barnyard" is a common descriptor for beers containing Brettanomyces bacteria. It can be a good or a bad thing.

The "considering the judges didn't pay to drink it" line is.... misinformed to put it politely. Judges go out of their way to provide meaningful feedback and criticism of the beers. Judging isn't a way to get free beer. The entrants pay for this valuable feedback, and it's well worth it if you're serious about brewing great beer.

Consider volunteering to steward at a local comp. Then you'll be able to observe the process first-hand. I think you'll come away with a much different opinion that the one you now possess.

Michael
BJCP National

Never been to a competition, but are attributes like "baby diaper" common? Seems a little... well... rude... considering the judges didnt pay to drink it?

Sorry not stirring the pot, definitely talking out of school about something I know little about... but wouldnt "barnyard" or even "rubber and wet cotton" be descriptive without being jerkwad?

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Perhaps it all stems from the fact that Ive never smelled a beer that smelled like baby diaper (and as a childless dude I have smelled few baby diapers... queue ****-bear jokes here). If its the most meaningful constructive crit then so be it. It just sounded, to this uninformed reader, like something Jeffery Steingarten would say on Iron Chef.

 

[JonM]

Experimenting with little variations can be fun too - it doesn't have to be hard work. I do my experimenting with half batches so I don't get overwhelmed with too much beer.

Last summer I did a bunch of SMASHes, changing one little thing (mash temp, grain type, etc) each time. I have another little experiment going now where I've made 3 batches of an IPA with the same grain bill and hop schedule, bur a different variety each time. Next time I'll do a 5-gal batch, split it across two 3-gal fermenters and use different yeast in each.

The point is, each time i do one of these little experiments, I get a good beer and a little smarter.

 

[weirdboy]

Personally speaking, if my beer tastes like a dirty diaper, that's what I want people to tell me. Don't sugar coat it or skate around it or anything like that. I am trying to make better beer, not feel good about myself when I make crappy beer.

 

[SenorPepe]

It just sounded, to this uninformed reader, like something Jeffery Steingarten would say on Iron Chef.

LOL! I love this. So true. I feel like he pops an old man boner every time he calls someone's food "pedestrian". He gets this little Dick Cheney grin on his face.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Oh hey I agree, and Mike set me straight so I am not arguing my point any longer. Mike let me know, which I appreciated, that baby diaper is actually descriptive of WHY they didnt like the beer, whereas I thought it said "this beer smells like $hiz... go home." Two entirely different intentions.

Its like the sauerkraut that I am finishing up tonight. If my friends say "this was too salty" or "it has a weird aftertaste... really not my thing" or worst case scenario "I think this went bad" I will feel horrible for serving it, but I will be glad to know it wasnt to their liking and why (or that I f'ed up the kraut fermenting... again). "Dude this tastes like $hiz" would be a good way to get me defensive.

Personally speaking, if my beer tastes like a dirty diaper, that's what I want people to tell me. Don't sugar coat it or skate around it or anything like that. I am trying to make better beer, not feel good about myself when I make crappy beer.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Problem is he has a remarkable pallet and CAN give incredibly constructive criticism, when he WANTS to.

LOL! I love this. So true. I feel like he pops an old man boner every time he calls someone's food "pedestrian". He gets this little Dick Cheney grin on his face.

 

[inkman15]

Personally speaking, if my beer tastes like a dirty diaper, that's what I want people to tell me. Don't sugar coat it or skate around it or anything like that. I am trying to make better beer, not feel good about myself when I make crappy beer.

Completely agree. That's what I want - honest feedback that's going to help me recognize how to improve

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Final explanation, and Yoop go ahead and shoot me if I threadjacked, before I shut up... My kneejerk crack about free beer didnt mean what it sounded like. IF the judge had been intentionally being a jerkwad and IF he had used a word that (you have to admit) could sound as inflammatory as "baby diaper" then the question in my head was "what could he possibly get out of being such a jerk? Its not as if they just paid hard-earned money for a crappy pint!"

Unfortunately the 2 dimensional medium of typed text doesnt always allow for nuance, so I wind up misrepresenting what I am saying (not that I dont sometimes do the same in person).

 

[Jwood]

You're a new brewer. On top of it, you entered a beer that you knew was infected (you stated Brett infection). They judge it against the style it was entered, I don't see what the surprise is (I would be more discouraged if they didn't detect any off flavors!). Have you saved a couple infected bottles and tasted them now? Unless you are 100% confident in your beer, you should enter a competetion for feedback alone, not to win overall. Either way don't be discouraged. Racking under a Brett infection won't rid the finished product of that Brett characteristic. That would be like saying that racking under the krausen rids the beer of yeast.

Basically, enter a beer that you feel represents your ability to the fullest and work off of the criticism to that. Don't take it to heart and feel that this represents your true ability as a brewer.

 

[Phillyphoodie]

Problem is he has a remarkable pallet and CAN give incredibly constructive criticism, when he WANTS to.

Truth. He doesn't pull any punches, and that is why I respect the man. Also, if you have a chance (and haven't already done so), read his book "The Man Who Ate Everything." He is like an encyclopedia of food knowledge.

 

[Jcoz]

nm

 

[bottlebomber]

If you age a baby diaper beer, does it start to taste like Depends?

 

[Grizz]

If you age a baby diaper beer, does it start to taste like Depends?

Well that will depend if he was brewing with dingle berries or not.

 

[whitehause]

Completely agree......I want an honest opinion when judged. If you don't know whats wrong you don't know what to fix. Obviously knowing it's infected going in probably meant you should have passed on that competition as the only thing learned is something you already knew.

 

[jonmohno]

Dont feel so bad the "baby diaper" i got from the first time i tried a smuttynose ipa and who knows how long it was sitting on the room temp shelf. So you know what/ they can rate that beer like yours then. The more i think about baby diaper the more i think bandaid combined with cat piss aroma.Really that should be a common term. Ever smelled a baby nursery?Smells like animal crackers and baby body stink..ha ha.
Honestly from what i remember it could be those cat piss hops, but on that i had a hunch it was overspent yeast and bad storage long shelf life, or just hops can go acrid smelling like that or something with well lit room temp for months and months..My ipas dont do that though.
Just a thought.