electric brewing question

[chainsawbrewing]

SSR is on or off. Period. Element is never "partly" on.

For the BK, you could leave the element on 100%. When I say 100%, I mean time, not power.

However, 2 things to consider here. First, with some brews I cannot stop the boilover with that much power. So, I go 100% until I get to the boil, then back off to 70%. So, 7 seconds on, 3 off, repeat. 70%.

The second point is cost. The electricity does have a real cost. Might as well save $0.30 on your boil.

well damn, i guess i was thinking right originally then, lol.
so the ssr relays the element on and off over and over. it is LITERALLY killing 100% of the power to the element for a period of time. that period of time is based on the % of power you tell the pid to monitor. using your example, 90% power, the element would be on for 9 seconds, off for 1, over and over and over, correct?

when the element is off is it like i described earlier, jut BOOM, it's off right away?

if so, would i be correct again in what i said about not needing to mess with a pid, or ssr for my HLT then? once i hit strike temps, just turn off/unplug the element, and that's it. just like reaching strike temps in my keggle on top of a banjo burner. reach the temp, shut off the burner, pump to the MLT.

 

[Walker]

if so, would i be correct again in what i said about not needing to mess with a pid, or ssr for my HLT then? once i hit strike temps, just turn off/unplug the element, and that's it. just like reaching strike temps in my keggle on top of a banjo burner. reach the temp, shut off the burner, pump to the MLT.

Yeah, you can do this. I think most people were just assuming you were headed towards a HERMS or RIMS system, but if you just want to use electricity to heat things and want to maintain mash temp with a simple insulated cooler, then you have no reason to buy a PID or anything at all.

You would have no need for a PID or electronic temp probe at all. Your boil kettle can be controled by a simple pulse width modulator controlling the SSR. Simple device with a knob that you can turn to set the on/off duty cycle of the element. (You can literally build a modulator yourself for a couple of bucks if you don't mind soldering a few electronic components together.)

No fancy control box needed here.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

Yeah, you can do this. I think most people were just assuming you were headed towards a HERMS or RIMS system, but if you just want to use electricity to heat things and want to maintain mash temp with a simple insulated cooler, then you have no reason to buy a PID or anything at all.

You would have no need for a PID or electronic temp probe at all. Your boil kettle can be controled by a simple pulse width modulator controlling the SSR. Simple device with a knob that you can turn to set the on/off duty cycle of the element. (You can literally build a modulator yourself for a couple of bucks if you don't mind soldering a few electronic components together.)

No fancy control box needed here.

sweet. this is more along the lines of what i was thinking, i just hadn't heard nor seen of it.

anybody on here done this before, or have any links of examples on how to get a set up like that going? i will still probably build a box of some sort, to house the "dimmer switch" knob and ssr, and the two female 220v plugs for the two heating elements, and a "kill all" switch, and then a three way switch set up for hlt element on, all off, bk element on.

 

[illin8]

i apoligize, i have NO idea what this even means, lol.

are you saying a three way switch that has one on, both off, "other one" on that can handle 240v is very expensive?

passedpawn posted the one he uses, http://search.digikey.com/scripts/D..._link=hp_go_button&KeyWords=S33F-RO&x=23&y=16
and it's only $11.59

that doesn't seem very expensive to me, to never have to worry about having to unplug and re-plug in elements all the time.

That switch has a Contact Rating @ Voltage of 25A @ 125VAC. A three-way switch rated for 30+ amps @ 240v isn't easily come by...I gave up looking. When I initially started to inquire about electric I had the same idea: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/3-pos-240v-switch-120062/

As far as the PID SSR goes, with the manual input you can adjust the time the element is on (at 100% power). So at 50%, it would pulse on for 0.5 seconds at full power and be off for a 0.5 seconds...obviously giving you the ability of dialing down the rigor of the boil.

I had many of the same questions initially as you have, but I think you will find that after all of the research, time and parts, a PID/SSR controlled system isn't really that much more complicated or expensive...especially when you can 'set it and forget it' and do other things to speed up your brew day. Just my $0.02.

 

[Walker]

sweet. this is more along the lines of what i was thinking, i just hadn't heard nor seen of it.

anybody on here done this before, or have any links of examples on how to get a set up like that going? i will still probably build a box of some sort, to house the "dimmer switch" knob and ssr, and the two female 220v plugs for the two heating elements, and a "kill all" switch, and then a three way switch set up for hlt element on, all off, bk element on.

Yeah, you still need a control box. I just meant that it didn't have to be a fancy one.

I've built a couple of the pulse width modulators in the past few weeks. Here's a short (and modified) write up with a video I put in another thread recently:

===============================================

Exmaple PWM schematic:

The two components in blue (larger capacitor and the potentiometer) are where you can make changes to control the frequency of this thing.

The frequency will be:

1.44/(C * R)

So, in this example, the circuit will have a frequency of

1.44/(0.000020 * 100000) = 0.72Hz

It will go through one timing cycle every 1.38 seconds.

You can use different sized potentiometer and/or capacitor if you want your cycling period to be longer than this. I actually used 33uF caps on mine for a lower frequency of 0.43Hz (one cycle every 2.3 seconds).

By turning the knob on the potentiometer, you can adjust how much time out of that 1.38 seconds the pulse will be ON vs OFF. Turn the knob all the way one direction and the element will basically be on 100% of the time. Turn the knob all the way the other direction and the element will basically be on 0% of the time.

You will need to supply the circuit with a DC voltage source. If you have an old cell phone charger or other old power adapter lying around, you can use that for the DC source.

The end result is that the "dis" (discharge) pin of the 555 timer chip will periodically drain current (as controlled by your knob setting). When the discharge pin is sinking current, you will get a voltage difference between the + and - wires that are marked as "relay control voltage", and the relay will allow your 220V to pass through. When the discharge pin is not sinking current, there will be no voltage drop across the relay control and the relay will not allow the voltage through.
Here's a video of mine packaged up in a small box:



I don't have any pics of the inside of that box, but I can take some if you want to see it. All that's in there is the guys of an old cell phone charger I had in a drawer (I took the plastic case off so that I could slide it into the plastic box) and a small circuit board with the PWM components on it.

The schematic does not show it, but I added a small LED and 1kOhm resistor so that I could get a visual of the duty cycle easily. That part is not necessary, but blinking lights give it a nice geeky factor.

I plan to cut a rough hole in the front of my control box for the potentiometer and LED to be able to pass through and then drill a couple holes so that the face plate of that thing can be put on the front of the control box and the rest of it can sit on the inside of the box.

 

[Walker]

If you want a parts list, I can give you the exact components I ordered from mouser.com (you can also buy any switches you need from them, too.)

I think the total price of the components for the PWM came in at about $3 from mouser.com, and another $1.50 or so for the grey plastic box I put it all into (I bought that at Home Depot.)

 

[chainsawbrewing]

That switch has a Contact Rating @ Voltage of 25A @ 125VAC. A three-way switch rated for 30+ amps @ 240v isn't easily come by...I gave up looking. When I initially started to inquire about electric I had the same idea: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/3-pos-240v-switch-120062/

As far as the PID SSR goes, with the manual input you can adjust the time the element is on (at 100% power). So at 50%, it would pulse on for 0.5 seconds at full power and be off for a 0.5 seconds...obviously giving you the ability of dialing down the rigor of the boil.

I had many of the same questions initially as you have, but I think you will find that after all of the research, time and parts, a PID/SSR controlled system isn't really that much more complicated or expensive...especially when you can 'set it and forget it' and do other things to speed up your brew day. Just my $0.02.

thanks for your input. i appreciate being able to learn from other peoples research, lol.

let me ask this then, in my set up that i'm brainstorming about, let's say i have a single pid, and a single ssr, only for my BK. i really don't think i need either of those for my HLT, since i'm not doing herms, or rims, i just turn on the power to the HLT element, shut it off when i reach my strike and sparge temps.

anyways, back to the BK, with a single pid, and ssr. do you have to have a thermocuple installed, or can you just manually tell the pid to be at full power, then once i reach a boil, manually tell the pid to cut to 80% or 70% or whatever% (learned through experimentation) to maintain a good rolling boil and will that work? or does the pid rely on the thermocuple/actual temperature reading to tell the ssr when to cycle?

lastly, since you couldn't find a three way toggle that worked, i assume in your rig, you have a single female 220v plug in, and you have to unplug your HLT element, and plug in your BK element everytime you brew, right?

 

[Walker]

anyways, back to the BK, with a single pid, and ssr. do you have to have a thermocuple installed, or can you just manually tell the pid to be at full power, then once i reach a boil, manually tell the pid to cut to 80% or 70% or whatever% (learned through experimentation) to maintain a good rolling boil and will that work? or does the pid rely on the thermocuple/actual temperature reading to tell the ssr when to cycle?

lastly, since you couldn't find a three way toggle that worked, i assume in your rig, you have a single female 220v plug in, and you have to unplug your HLT element, and plug in your BK element everytime you brew, right?

You do not need a thermocouple. The temperature of boiling wort is the same regardless of whether you have a nice rolling boil or a violent boil over. Temp monitoring will be of no use to you.

You will just want a PID with the manual mode to set the effective percentage of total element power (in manual mode, the PID does not need or use the temp probe), or the simple PWM I described to set the effective power.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

You do not need a thermocouple. The temperature of boiling wort is the same regardless of whether you have a nice rolling boil or a violent boil over. Temp monitoring will be of no use to you.

You will just want a PID with the manual mode to set the effective percentage of total element power (in manual mode, the PID does not need or use the temp probe), or the simple PWM I described to set the effective power.

ok. wow, thanks again for all the info, lol. everyone, thanks a lot. i've learned a ton the last couple days from you guys.

so, as far as i'm concerned, i'm done thinking about the HLT side of this equation. not doing herms, or rims, i have ZERO need for throttle control on the HLT element. do you all agree?

on the BK side, i could either have a single pid, and ssr, with no thermocouple, or anything like that, have the pid in manual mode, set to 100% power (zero throttle control), let it get to a boil as fast as possible.
then once i reach a boil, the pid in manual mode, just dial down the power by a set percentage, which will be experimentation at first, but i'll eventually get to "learn" the power of my element, and will know for example 70% power for a 10g batch, 50% power for a 5g batch. no need for any thermocuple or anything in the BK, the manual mode of the pid is kind of like just a fancy dimmer switch for a heating element. do you all agree?


pid and ssr, no thermocuple for more fancy lights, and easier set up/wiring.

PWM for smaller space taken up, but still need an ssr, and a few "other" componets, and to a novice, would be a bit more difficult to wire up, but would be cheaper.

do you all agree?


and lastly, just having one female element plug in on my control box is the cheapest, safest way to go, because of the cost of a three way switch capable of handling the voltage and amps of the elements.
do you all agree?

thanks again.

 

[Walker]

Yeah, I think you got it.

You'll probably never get a consensus on exactly how to build it because everyone does it a little differently. I took a tip from someone on this forum and totally avoided any switch on my control box that would be passing 240V and high amps through it.

Instead, what I bought were heavy duty contactors (basically, mechanical relays) that will pass through the high amp 240V, but are controlled by a low amp 120V signal. The price of the contactor was only about $1 more than a big toggle switch that could handle the 240V and high amps directly. So, for the same price I have the same end result (flip a switch and turn the power to the element on or off), but an added measure of safety since I am touching something carrying less voltage and amps.

The PWM is cheaper than a manual mode PID by a LONG shot, but yes... it does take some time and care to build. I was into the DIY aspect of this as much as I am into the brewing aspect, so it was fun to build the PWM. The $30 or $40 savings it results in was just a bonus.

edit: the PWM is actually not any smaller than a PID, to be honest. A PID is a couple inches square on the face and about 4 inches deep (roughly), and the little plastic box I put the PWM in is pretty close to the same size, just a different orientation.

 

[illin8]

I've been in the planning stages of my build for almost a year now...new house last year, wife got pregnant with twins (already have a 2.5 year old), etc. has kept me from pulling the trigger but I had it all planned out. Just received my order from Auber (PID, SSR, Heatsink, RTD) and some other stuff yesterday, I should be setting mine up soon. Like I said, I have thought this through every way and backwards, I continue to come up with revisions in my head but once I research it and compare price and effort with gain I come back to the same setup. The setup will consist of an HLT (keggle) with a 5,500 watt ULWD element, a Coleman xtreme Mash tun, and a BK (keggle) with another 5,500 watt ULWD element. Power will be coming from my 30-amp, 240v dryer outlet via a 30-amp GFCI extension cord into the control box to a distribution block. The block will distribute power to the PID and SSR/3-prong receptacle. The HLT & BK will have there own heating elements connected to the control panel with 3-wire dryer cord with plug. I will manually unplug and plug whichever keggle I need into the 3-prong receptacle in the control box. The only thing I'm up in the air about is the switch to the receptacle/element. Don't know if I want to go the switch/contactor route or just get the cheap 30-amp DPST switch from Home Depot and forget it. The control box will be mounted on a wall above and out of the way of the water/brewing process...just haven't committed to one over the other yet.

And to clarify, you absolutely need a thermocouple or RTD to connect to the PID for the PID to work. Even though it won't be using the sensor to provide power in manual mode, the PID needs that connection to run. In my system, I'll have the RTD located in the HLT...when I switch to the BK to boil, I'll just leave the RTD in place on the HLT (maintaining that connection).

For all the trouble, I think you'll find that being able to use the PID on the HLT will be a huge benefit. You'll already have the means to heat the HLT (element), you just need to switch the plugs. It may not be ideal but for the amount of $ and trouble, unplugging and plugging three or four times during a brew session shouldn't be much of an issue...particularly if you can cut power completely to the receptacle before you handle the plug.

 

[Walker]

And to clarify, you absolutely need a thermocouple or RTD to connect to the PID for the PID to work. Even though it won't be using the sensor to provide power in manual mode, the PID needs that connection to run. In my system, I'll have the RTD located in the HLT...when I switch to the BK to boil, I'll just leave the RTD in place on the HLT (maintaining that connection).

Wow... I'm shocked you need a thermocouple for manual mode operation. What a waste. I wonder if you could just connect a resistor or something across the terminals to fool the PID?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Wow... I'm shocked you need a thermocouple for manual mode operation. What a waste. I wonder if you could just connect a resistor or something across the terminals to fool the PID?

Thermocouples can be very inexpensive. I wouldn't take a chance trying to use a resistor. And if you really don't want to use the thermocouple in the vessel you are controlling, you could drop it in the HLT, or MT just to monitor.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

Wow... I'm shocked you need a thermocouple for manual mode operation. What a waste. I wonder if you could just connect a resistor or something across the terminals to fool the PID?

however Walker, using your "system", with the PWM, instead of a pid, you don't use a thermocouple at all, just an SSR and you've used it, and it works just fine, correct? and you just use a regular thermometer on your BK to monitor the temps, which you're controlling with the PWM, right?

 

[P-J]

I've been following this thread with great interest and thought that someone might be interested in a wiring diagram that I made for the Auberin SYL -2352 PID.

Auberin-wiring1-a4.jpg (The image is rather large and can be printed in full scale on 11" x 17" paper)

What I have done is purchase a Spa Panel @ Home Depot or one compatible with the mains panel and then move its GFCI breaker to the mains panel. (The SPA panel breaker must match the main panel to accomplish this.) This way the entire brewery is GFCI protected. Standard breakers are then used in the Spa Panel for circuit protection.

I do not show the temp probe wiring as that is a rather easy task to accomplish. The specific wiring also depends on the type of temp sensor used.

Hope this helps someone.

 

[Walker]

however Walker, using your "system", with the PWM, instead of a pid, you don't use a thermocouple at all, just an SSR and you've used it, and it works just fine, correct? and you just use a regular thermometer on your BK to monitor the temps, which you're controlling with the PWM, right?

Correct. Note that I am actually going full HERMS here, but I am using a single electric vessle that will serve as the HERMS heat exchanger as well as the BK. To save costs and give myself some more DIY fun, I opted for a cheaper PID (no manual mode) and the homemade PWM instead of the more expensive PID that had the manual mode.

I will use the PID for my recirculating mash, but will be able to flip a switch later to select whether the PID or the PWM is in control of the SSR and element. The PWM needs no thermocouple.

My system is under construction, but I have done mock-up assemblies on my work bench to ensure that the PWM works fine for controlling the SSR and driving the heating element, and to ensure that I can flip that switch and use the PID to drive the SSR and element.

I'll upgrade at a later stage and add a dedicated electric HLT which will be controlled by the PID and then my little PWM will still be used to control the BK.

There are 1,000,000 ways to do things. I'm trying to keep costs low while still giving myself the room to expand later without making any piece of equipment obsolete.

edit: The first phase of my construction will actually just have the PWM in it. No pumping or automation or anything... just a controllable electric kettle to get me weened off propane. I'll use the system like that for a while while I make sure I have all my ducks in a row for the actual HERMS part of it.

 

[passedpawn]

I've been following this thread with great interest and thought that someone might be interested in a wiring diagram that I made for the Auberin SYL -2352 PID.

Auberin-wiring1-a4.jpg (The image is rather large and can be printed in full scale on 11" x 17" paper)

What I have done is purchase a Spa Panel @ Home Depot or one compatible with the mains panel and then move its GFCI breaker to the mains panel. (The SPA panel breaker must match the main panel to accomplish this.) This way the entire brewery is GFCI protected. Standard breakers are then used in the Spa Panel for circuit protection.

I do not show the temp probe wiring as that is a rather easy task to accomplish. The specific wiring also depends on the type of temp sensor used.

Hope this helps someone.

Nice. One difference between your's and mine is I shut off both legs to the outlet with the SSRs. There are a whole bunch of hot threads regarding this exact issue, so I won't comment any further except to suggest to the reader that some are uncomfortable with that setup.

 

[Walker]

Right. You definitely want to be able to kill both hot lines to the element in some way. Some folks use two SSRs to do it and some put in some other kind of kill switch.

It's debated because if an SSR fails, it can fail in the "always on" mode which woulf mean that there is a live line going to your heater element even though you think it's off.

This is why I am using a big 2-pole contactor as a kill switch. When I tell it to turn off it will absolutely be off. Cheaper than a second SSR, too.

 

[brrman]

Here's my control panel:

White switches are main power for each element.
Black toggles are for pump and stir motor.

Picture of the guts of the panel as I was testing the power. Kinda tight in there, but its workable.

Misc Pics:

 

[P-J]

Nice. One difference between your's and mine is I shut off both legs to the outlet with the SSRs. There are a whole bunch of hot threads regarding this exact issue, so I won't comment any further except to suggest to the reader that some are uncomfortable with that setup.

I absolutely see and understand the point. In the situation I have, the spa panel in on the rig. The breakers in the spa panel are the "kill switches" and the controller switches are for process control.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

hey just thought of another idea, may be doable, maybe not.

instead of putting one female dryer plug in on my control box, and wiring dryer repair cords on my heating elements, and then having to unplug/plug them in, why couldn't i install a 220v breaker between each of my two elements and each female plug (talking about two female dryer plugs) then just flip the breaker on and off to completely 100% kill power to one element, or the other, that way they can both be plugged in. and since i'm only needing the pid and ssr, or the pwm and ssr on the BK element, i'll just need that on the one side.

taking that idea one step futher, why do i even need the female plugs, and the dryer extension cords at all?

why couldn't i just hardwire from my element into the control box, and then have that into a 220v breaker on the box, and then the out of the breaker into a distribution block that's being fed from the main 220v gfci breaker coming out of my main breaker box?

that way it's all hard wired, no plugging in or unplugging, no plugs at all, period. just flip the 220v breaker on to complete the connection to my HLT element, then flip it off to kill 100% of the power to that element.

then the other side, have my BK element hardwired, then into my control box hardwired to a second 220v breaker, then out of the breaker into my pid/ssr combo or pwn/ssr combo, then into the distribution block. then the same thing, i can flip the breaker on that the BK element is wired to to get power, control the power with the pid/ssr or pwn/ssr, and when i'm done, flip the breaker on the control box, and kill 100% of the power to that element.

do either of those ideas have any problems with them?

like i think i already mentioned, i want to be able to 100% kill power to the elements if i want/need to, safely, and hopefully not have to unplug/plug in the elements.

i'm just trying not to "give up" on the idea, thinking out loud here, lol.

 

[Walker]

taking that idea one step futher, why do i even need the female plugs, and the dryer extension cords at all?

why couldn't i just hardwire from my element into the control box, and then have that into a 220v breaker on the box, and then the out of the breaker into a distribution block that's being fed from the main 220v gfci breaker coming out of my main breaker box?

that way it's all hard wired, no plugging in or unplugging, no plugs at all, period. just flip the 220v breaker on to complete the connection to my HLT element, then flip it off to kill 100% of the power to that element.

You'll want plugs. You are going to have to clean your vessels at the end of the day, which will be a bit of a PITA if it is hard-wired to the rest of the system. Being able to unplug it and drag it away for scrubbing and rinsing is going to be important, isn't it?

 

[Walker]

instead of putting one female dryer plug in on my control box, and wiring dryer repair cords on my heating elements, and then having to unplug/plug them in, why couldn't i install a 220v breaker between each of my two elements and each female plug (talking about two female dryer plugs) then just flip the breaker on and off to completely 100% kill power to one element, or the other, that way they can both be plugged in. and since i'm only needing the pid and ssr, or the pwm and ssr on the BK element, i'll just need that on the one side.

Forgot to address the first item....

Whan you are describing here is basically the switch you were talking about earlier, but now it's implemented as two individual breakers instead of one switch.

Isn't that going to cost you more than the switch you were talking about earlier (plus leave you the option of accidentally turning them both on at the same time)?

 

[Walker]

Isn't that going to cost you more than the switch you were talking about earlier (plus leave you the option of accidentally turning them both on at the same time)?

I take this back. Looks like 2-pole breakers can be found for about $8 new, so the cost isn't that bad.

You could do this or you could use a couple of contactors and a simple, low amp, 120V 2-way selector switch to get the same result. That would be a larger solution in terms of actual physical area taken up, but would remove the ability to accidentally turn both on at the same time and cost about the same as the breakers.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

thanks, honestly the only reason i thought of the breakers, was because of what people were saying about a switch not actually completely "killing" 100% of the electric flow. maybe i'm confused, and was misunderstanding that, but what i took from it was that first off, you had to have some sort of an expensive "heavy duty" three way switch to be able to handle the 220volts, and that even then it only shut off one leg of the power. at least that's what i gathered, once again, i'm a novice here... but with an actual breaker, i figured it would effectively kill 100% of the power to the element, so much so, that i could splice the wires on the dryer cord and lick it if i wanted to, and have 0% risk of being shocked to death, lol.


also, correct me if i'm wrong, but if for some reason both of those breakers did get turned on at the same time, sending voltage to both elements simoultaniously, wouldn't it be too much power for the main gfci breaker in my breaker box, and simply trip the breaker?

 

[Walker]

thanks, honestly the only reason i thought of the breakers, was because of what people were saying about a switch not actually completely "killing" 100% of the electric flow. maybe i'm confused, and was misunderstanding that, but what i took from it was that first off, you had to have some sort of an expensive "heavy duty" three way switch to be able to handle the 220volts, and that even then it only shut off one leg of the power. at least that's what i gathered, once again, i'm a novice here... but with an actual breaker, i figured it would effectively kill 100% of the power to the element, so much so, that i could splice the wires on the dryer cord and lick it if i wanted to, and have 0% risk of being shocked to death, lol.

Breakers, switches, contactors.... when you turn them off, they basically are off. They are mechanical devices that explicitly break a connection.

The SSRs are the thing that can be tricky. There is no mechanical part to them. They allow voltage to pass through silicon. If one of them is manufactured badly or fails for some reason, you might think they are off, but they are on.

also, correct me if i'm wrong, but if for some reason both of those breakers did get turned on at the same time, sending voltage to both elements simoultaniously, wouldn't it be too much power for the main gfci breaker in my breaker box, and simply trip the breaker?

It depends on what the breaker in your panel is. I guess I missed that detail. If you are using 30A in the main panel and 30A breakers on your panel, then yes... turning on both elements would cause the breaker in the panel to trip pretty quickly.

Just make sure your wiring in the box is able to handle more than 30A so that it doesn't catch on fire.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

The SSRs are the thing that can be tricky. There is no mechanical part to them. They allow voltage to pass through silicon. If one of them is manufactured badly or fails for some reason, you might think they are off, but they are on.




Just make sure your wiring in the box is able to handle more than 30A so that it doesn't catch on fire.

however, with a switch or breaker set up, when you shut it off, it really doesn't matter what the ssr thinks, the element is without a doubt off, right?

by this you just mean make sure the wiring is a big enough gague right?

 

[Walker]

however, with a switch or breaker set up, when you shut it off, it really doesn't matter what the ssr thinks, the element is without a doubt off, right?

Right. You want that switch/breaker/contactor/whatever as your "I absolutely know there is no power going to the element" device and the SSR is there to handle the periodic on/off power toggling that is necessary for maintaining the boil or mash temp where you want it.

by this you just mean make sure the wiring is a big enough gague right?

Correct.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Chainsaw... I'd really encourage you do draw up your plan. Here is a thread I started:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/electric-question-153310/

I wouldn't suggest anyone try to use my exact design (you are welcome to any piece of it that might help you out), but rather work through their own.
I got a lot of great advice and I REALLY appreciated CodeRage kinda pushing me to learn what I was doing in the process. I ended up with a rock solid design and understand every element. If something fails, I am convinced I can troubleshoot it. And doing the drawings made the actual wiring a snap. Also, the drawing makes it possible for folks to offer advice and not be concerned that they missed a detail in one of the many posts that are already piling up.

Good luck
Ed

 

[owentp]

Does anybody have a simple yet detailed design for an element in a HLT w/thermostat wired to a PID for temp control only?