EC-1118 stuck after 48hrs?

[AustinFromTexas]

Hey all, newbie question here although I've been brewing for a few years. This is my second time making hard cider and I'm doing the exact same recipe I did before (4gals apple juice + 1 to back-sweeten) however this time my fermentation seems to have stopped after 48hrs.

Here's the run down:

I used 3gals of store bought juice (no preservatives) and was able to get 2 gals of fresh pressed juice from a friend's orchard. 1 of these gallons I put into primary with the intent to back sweeten with the second fresh-pressed gallon.

I've added 3lbs of sugar to the batch to push the OG up to 1.084 and pitched a dry packet of EC-1118 straight into the fermenter.
I didn't have any yeast nutrient or campden tablets on hand to use but from what I've read about EC-1118 being such a "beast" I figured it should work out fine.

24hrs into ferm it was bubbling away fine, about once every minute so im happy enough that everything is fine. Fast forward another 24hrs and I come home from work to a dead quiet airlock... I've taken a gravity reading and it's dropped to 1.080 which I was expecting to see have dropped a bit more TBH.

This is my first time using the "beast" but also the first time I've ever had a stuck fermentation so I'm a bit puzzled as to what went wrong.

Temperature is at 64f(17c) so I don't think it should be too cold for this yeast but maybe I'm wrong?

Should I try adding some nutrient? Perhaps repitching altogether? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Before you do anything wait another 24h and take another gravity reading. Airlocks can be deceiving if there is a leak somewhere.

Are you 100% sure there was no preservative added to the fresh-pressed juice?
Did you add some preservative to the juice you will use to back-sweeten?

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Thanks for the reply. I'm 99.9% sure no preservatives, ingredients listed on the carton was just apple juice and ascorbic acid. I'll do a Google search on the product and verify this though.
I've not added any preservatives to the stuff I got from the orchard, I've put the gallon to use as back-sweetener in the freezer until time to bottle.
I've not done anything as of yet, will take another grav reading when I get home from work today and see if there's any difference. How much should I expect it to have dropped if fermentation is still active?
I've picked up a second pack of the yeasties just in case but i still have no nutrient. I've heard banana peels can be good to use instead?

 

[AustinFromTexas]

The juice I used is Tesco 100% pressed apple juice. Google/forum searching can confirm the juice I used is preservative free and has been used successfully by others.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I was asking about the juice from the orchard

Fresh pressed apple juice has wild yeast that will start fermentation within hours of pressing if not pasteurized or preserved. Some orchards might just add preservatives rather than go through the trouble of pasteurizing. Sounds crazy but it's happened.

If fermentation actually had stalled that would be the only reason I could imagine.

 

[madscientist451]

Swirl or otherwise agitate the carboy/bucket to rouse the yeast and move it to a warmer spot. Cider will actually make itself without any added yeast. If you have another carboy/bucket you can also try to dump it from one to another to add some air.
You should be able to get it going without adding anything else.

 

[AustinFromTexas]

RPh_Guy my mistake for not reading that properly! Again I'd say I'm 99.9% sure there's no preservatives as the fresh-pressed juice came from a very small orchard that my friend's dad has in the garden behind his home. Can't imagine he'd have put anything in them! We moved the juice from his freezer to mine

Edit:
I'll definitely try pouring between my 2 buckets when I get home today! I always do this before pitching when I brew, not sure why I didn't think to do it in this case! I'll double check the seals when I'm done. I'll also try moving it into a warmer space and see how I get on!

 

[Maylar]

You're right in that EC-1118 is a powerful yeast. It also has the K-1 kill factor which makes it the biggest fish in the pond, no other yeast can survive in its presence. Temperature range goes all the way down to 50°F, and its nutrient requirements are also low. EC is one of the yeasts used to restart stalled fermentations in wines and mead.

All of this makes your situation very odd indeed. I would add some nutrients and see what happens. 1 tsp per gallon should be enough. And warm it up a few degrees until it's bubbling away again. Let us know if it starts up.

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Thanks for all of the help on this guys. I gave the bucket a good sloshing while carrying it to a warmer spot. It's now sitting in the same closet where the water heater is. The stick-on thermometer is reading a solid 66f and the airlock is suddenly seeing much more activity. Amazing what a difference just a few degrees makes!

 

[Bourniplus]

Good! I would suggest a towel instead of the airlock for the first few days.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Good! I would suggest a towel instead of the airlock for the first few days.

Is there actually an advantage to using a towel as opposed to a blow-off or airlock?

 

[Yooper]

Is there actually an advantage to using a towel as opposed to a blow-off or airlock?

Yes. Co2 is poisonous to yeast, and with a high OG like with a wine, stirring and allowing more air exchange means a much happier fermentation. Once the cider/wine gets to 1.020 or under, then I move it to a carboy and airlock to make sure it doesn't get oxidized but before that, oxygen is a good thing. Co2 does dissipate out of the airlock, but it is released better when the wine is stirred and covered with just a towel.

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Yes. Co2 is poisonous to yeast, and with a high OG like with a wine, stirring and allowing more air exchange means a much happier fermentation. Once the cider/wine gets to 1.020 or under, then I move it to a carboy and airlock to make sure it doesn't get oxidized but before that, oxygen is a good thing. Co2 does dissipate out of the airlock, but it is released better when the wine is stirred and covered with just a towel.

I know this is a VERY late comment but somehow I missed this nugget of info last time. It's been 2 years since I last did my cider recipe (which turned out to be a great hit) and I'm only getting around to making it again now. This time I'm pushing for an even higher OG (1.12) to try and make it more like a "sparkling apple wine".

Careful to try and not get a repeat of last time, I made sure to shake each carton of apple juice thoroughly to aerate it and threw in a packet of wine yeast nutrients for good measure. Here we are again though, within just a few hours I had great big bubbles pushing out the airlock and 48hrs later not a peep.

I've been worrying about the temp being too cold as I've since moved into an older house that runs off a radiator system so there's no real warmer' spot in the house, especially this time of year. I've had it sitting as close as I dare to one of the radiators in the kitchen hoping that when the heating is turned on it doesn't get too blasted, but I've just checked the internal temperature of the juice with a probe and its at 18C (64F) so if anything my juice isn't getting enough heat.

Thanks Yooper for the comment about higher OG wines needing oxygen and co2 being poisonous to yeast as I've a feeling now that using an airlock has been the problem rather than temperature. It has been baffling me why a yeast like EC-1118 would struggle at this seemingly ideal temperature as 18c(64f)!

I've just rigorously stirred the juice as well as replaced the airlock with the towel as you suggested. How often would you recommend stirring until gravity reads 1.020? Would it still be advisable to try warm up my juice and if so are there any good ways to do so other than simply moving it closed to the radiator?

 

[Yooper]

It could also be the high OG- 1.120 is very high. EC-1118 can do it, but you may not get a sparking apple wine at the end if the yeast has been exhausted. It can be pushed up to nearly 18%,but that's with extraneous measures like incremental feeding, extra nutrients, etc. At this point, I'd keep stirring until it got to 1.030 or so, but less vigorously and often as it drops. Just in case it stalls, you don't want oxidized wine.

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Thanks for the added insight Yooper, I guess I should've done more homework when it comes to wine making and working with higher ABV content. I'll definitely be looking more into it from here.

It seems that the airlock theory was the main concern, however. Since I removed it and gave the batch a stir the fermentation is back at it and seems happy enough

I have seen a nice little drop in gravity in the past 24 hours and the internal temperature has shot to 23c(74f). I'm attributing this to the thermal activity of the yeast doing their thing and have backed the bucket well away from the radiator at this stage. I will continue to monitor temperature and will gently give it a stir every few hours or so.

I calculated to try and hit 14%abv before adding a gallon to backsweeten/carbonate leaving me with about a 12ish% when all is said and done, though admittedly my OG turned out higher than I anticipated. If it dries completely out I might me looking more at 15-16%ABV when bottling, which I hadn't considered a potentially bad thing until now... Here's hoping my yeasties will have enough juice at the end to give us a fizz!

 

[AustinFromTexas]

It could also be the high OG- 1.120 is very high. EC-1118 can do it, but you may not get a sparking apple wine at the end if the yeast has been exhausted. It can be pushed up to nearly 18%,but that's with extraneous measures like incremental feeding, extra nutrients, etc. At this point, I'd keep stirring until it got to 1.030 or so, but less vigorously and often as it drops. Just in case it stalls, you don't want oxidized wine.

Hey Yooper,

Another quick question: I've been stirring as you suggested until gravity read 1.020 and then stuck the airlock on, it bubbled for a few days but now fermentation seems to have been stuck at 1.012, which my ABV calculator reads just over 14%. Do you think this is my yeast having burnt themselves out or do you think it may have stalled?
Should I try adding some nutrients and stirring a bit more?

 

[Maylar]

Don't add nutrients now - yeast can't use them after 9% alcohol.

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Don't add nutrients now - yeast can't use them after 9% alcohol.

Thanks for the tip. I was thinking I might try re-pitching more yeast today but last night I gave a shot at simply removing the airlock, giving the must a stir and throwing the towel back over the bucket just like I've had it setup for the entirety of the fermentation. Fast forward 12 hours and the gravity has jumped down to 1.006 overnight. All I can say is that these yeasties really love their oxygen! Each time I put an airlock on the ferm stops, but as soon as I remove it and aerate the ferm jumps right back into action.

At this rate I expect I expect I'll be <=1.000 by tomorrow or the day after and I'll let it sit in primary for another week. I'll backsweeten and bottle next Tuesday and we'll see if the yeasties will have enough left in em to carb up