Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)

[EdMerican]

I did my first AG batch last weekend. Worked great, albeit taking a while longer than extract. One question I DO have though... I have a REALLY thick bottomed kettle, and halfway into the mash the top was 152 while the bottom was 159. No heat from the burner. Didn't seem to cause any real harm, but is there a good way to get around that and have a more consistent temp throughout the kettle? I made sure to stir really well at dough in, then left it alone aside from checking the temp once in the middle and then at the end. I may just go on ahead and go for a cooler MLT soon, but i really like the convenience of the stove top system, trub be damned Can't wait to do an Old Rasputin clone via STAG :rockin:

:edit:
After reviewing the recipe for Old Ras, and it calling for 16 lbs of grain STAG is NOT an option Oatmeal stout, here I come

 

[agenthucky]

I did my first AG batch last weekend. Worked great, albeit taking a while longer than extract. One question I DO have though... I have a REALLY thick bottomed kettle, and halfway into the mash the top was 152 while the bottom was 159. No heat from the burner. Didn't seem to cause any real harm, but is there a good way to get around that and have a more consistent temp throughout the kettle? I made sure to stir really well at dough in, then left it alone aside from checking the temp once in the middle and then at the end. I may just go on ahead and go for a cooler MLT soon, but i really like the convenience of the stove top system, trub be damned Can't wait to do an Old Rasputin clone via STAG :rockin:

:edit:
After reviewing the recipe for Old Ras, and it calling for 16 lbs of grain STAG is NOT an option Oatmeal stout, here I come

I don't know what you doughed in at, but the top will cool faster than the bottom. I usually stir every 15 minutes, although this will allow for heat to escape. One really good piece of advice deathbrewer had was to try to minimize the head space in the kettle you mash in. The headspace allows for heat to escape, and every time you open the kettle to stir, that airspace gets replaced with cool air. People have tried a lot of things, wrapping it in a towel or sleeping bag, placing a pillow on top (actually works), keeping the heat on the burner on low (I don't reccommend for beginners), and the one that I personally have been having success with lately is turning the stove on low (mine dips to 170F) and putting the kettle in there to mash.

Also people, you can still brew in a bag, and use a plastic cooler. They retain heat very well.

 

[Golddiggie]

Also people, you can still brew in a bag, and use a plastic cooler. They retain heat very well.

Just make sure the cooler is the right size/shape for that... I tried it on my first AG BIAB batch... Cooler was wrong shape, and size (70 quart Coleman Xtreme)... Still working to get the cooler fully converted over into a MLT for use. Hope to have that done before the next brew day comes along...

 

[agenthucky]

Just make sure the cooler is the right size/shape for that... I tried it on my first AG BIAB batch... Cooler was wrong shape, and size (70 quart Coleman Xtreme)... Still working to get the cooler fully converted over into a MLT for use. Hope to have that done before the next brew day comes along...

I don't see how the size or shape play into it, with the exception of the headspace.

 

[Golddiggie]

I don't see how the size or shape play into it, with the exception of the headspace.

Try mashing ~12 pounds of grain, in a nylon bag, in a 70 quart cooler, with ~18-20 quarts of water... Not enough water to fully cover the grain bag, and the grain bag isn't large enough to fill the cooler, so you have liquid on either side of it, and not over it... Temperature wasn't the issue, really, it was the grain amount to water amount (was looking to mash at ~1.5qt/#)...

IF the cooler is round, you have a much better chance of getting the grain bag to work well/better... If the cooler is more square, it will also probably work better...

I won't make that error again...

 

[EdMerican]

AgentHucky,

I had it in a 5 gallon pot just like DB's with maybe an inch and a half of headspace, maybe a little less. Doughed in at 167 after a good stir to make sure the heat was well distributed. Temp stayed pretty constant throughout the mash, only dropping about 2 degrees, but proportionately. 152 at top, 159 at bottom, and dropped to about 150/156. I consider it a success, as I tasted it last night (It was EdWort's Haus Pale Ale, btw). After a week in the primary it was rather delicious. None of the "gamey-ness" that my extract batches have had after a week in primary. Going to bottle in a couple days and can only imagine it getting better from there.

 

[imtrashed]

I have been doing partial mashes and I am just a handful of batches away from trying out my first full AG brew. I currently have 20 quart and 30 quart stockpots. The batches I've done so far have started at a maximum 4 gallons (boiling down and then topping off with water).

The 30 quart stockpot seems to only actually hold about 28 quarts, and that's filled up to the very top. If I want to get a boil going in that pot, I can probably only do about 6 gallons max.

If I end up with 7 gallons of pre-boil wort, could I start with 5.5 or 6 in the larger stockpot and add liquid to it from the other as it boils down (kind of like doing a risotto and adding broth as it boils away)? Is this a feasible way to get a full AG boil on a kitchen range?

 

[tele_powder]

Theoretically that should work. I wouldn't add any of the last runnings with less than 10 minutes left. I would lower the flame to try and minimize evaporation loss. I often start with 6.25 g to finish with 5.25g in the Fermenter on a 60 min boil. Keep a pound or two of dme around in case your efficiency is crap. Saved me only first AG batch. good luck!

 

[Justibone]

keep a pound or two of dme around in case your efficiency is crap.

+1

 

[electronjunkie]

I have been doing partial mashes and I am just a handful of batches away from trying out my first full AG brew. I currently have 20 quart and 30 quart stockpots. The batches I've done so far have started at a maximum 4 gallons (boiling down and then topping off with water).

The 30 quart stockpot seems to only actually hold about 28 quarts, and that's filled up to the very top. If I want to get a boil going in that pot, I can probably only do about 6 gallons max.

If I end up with 7 gallons of pre-boil wort, could I start with 5.5 or 6 in the larger stockpot and add liquid to it from the other as it boils down (kind of like doing a risotto and adding broth as it boils away)? Is this a feasible way to get a full AG boil on a kitchen range?

I have the exact same brewpot. I have a smaller 2gal pot also that I keep near boiling at 190F that holds about a gallon for most of the duration of the boil. I then bring it to boil briefly near the end.

The other larger pot I do a full boil on the other burner. I use two 1500W heat sticks to get me to boiling in the "30 qt" pot in no time. I add the extra gallon near the end of the boil to the larger pot when the rest has boiled off. I wind up with 5.25 gallons in the larger pot after addition from the smaller pot (minus the trub) at the very end of my 60 min boil. I have to adjust slightly for 90 min.

 

[ultravista]

How do you measure the amount od LME/DME needed to bring the gravity up where it should be? Is there a rule of thumb for extract additions?

 

[electronjunkie]

How do you measure the amount od LME/DME needed to bring the gravity up where it should be? Is there a rule of thumb for extract additions?

I use one of the many free recipe calculators though and you don't have to worry with the algebra while brewing but here goes:

DME is 1.044 pppg
LME is 1.037 pppg

Say I need .007 points for a 5 gal batch (I have 1.030 instead of 1.037). Multiply .007 by 5, thats .035, or about a pound of LME. Its actually .035/.037=0.94 lb of LME or .035/.044=0.8lb DME.

I usually just adjust in my recipe calc and just guess and test though in practice.

 

[BigJerk]

subscribed for more biab info!

 

[gce]

If I only have a 5.5g pot and a 5g pot, would I be OK with just doing a 4gallon batch? If so, can I just cut my ingredients down a fifth?

 

[agenthucky]

If I only have a 5.5g pot and a 5g pot, would I be OK with just doing a 4gallon batch? If so, can I just cut my ingredients down a fifth?

These are my only options as well. I end up doing a "5" gallon batch, but usually only get 4-4.5 gallons out of it. If you use a 5 gallon recipe, your efficiency will be better because you will be using 5 gallon grain bill for 4 gallons. You can compensate for this by adding water during the boil, or topping off when you are about to pitch.

Above is the easy way, but I suggest getting some software and planning your setup by taking volumes into account. I have a brewing profile setup to do just that, it allows for me to calculate what I can expect better than estimating from a 5 gallon recipe.

P.S. don't fill the 5.5 kettle to the TOP for boiling. You will most likely end up boiling over. After many batches using this method, I have been able to handle the boil where the volume is near the top, I suggest sparging for 5.75-6 gallons and just add it to the boil through the 60 minutes (I boil for 75). You will end up closer to the 5 gallon mark if you do it that way, but if you don't mind making 4 gallons batches, and adjusting the recipes, you will have no problem with the equipment

 

[Justibone]

If I only have a 5.5g pot and a 5g pot, would I be OK with just doing a 4gallon batch? If so, can I just cut my ingredients down a fifth?

In a word, yes.

There will be slight differences, however. Hop utilization in particular is not a truly linear equation. The differences presented by boiling only 80% of the ingredients in 80% of the volume, though, will be miniscule, and may well be less than the variabilities introduced by using a different thermometer. YMMV.

So, yes, you can just cut the recipe down to 4/5ths and go at it.

 

[Golddiggie]

These are my only options as well. I end up doing a "5" gallon batch, but usually only get 4-4.5 gallons out of it. If you use a 5 gallon recipe, your efficiency will be better because you will be using 5 gallon grain bill for 4 gallons. You can compensate for this by adding water during the boil, or topping off when you are about to pitch.

Above is the easy way, but I suggest getting some software and planning your setup by taking volumes into account. I have a brewing profile setup to do just that, it allows for me to calculate what I can expect better than estimating from a 5 gallon recipe.

P.S. don't fill the 5.5 kettle to the TOP for boiling. You will most likely end up boiling over. After many batches using this method, I have been able to handle the boil where the volume is near the top, I suggest sparging for 5.75-6 gallons and just add it to the boil through the 60 minutes (I boil for 75). You will end up closer to the 5 gallon mark if you do it that way, but if you don't mind making 4 gallons batches, and adjusting the recipes, you will have no problem with the equipment

Actually, the efficiency shouldn't be any better, you'll just have a higher ABV since the wort will be more concentrated. IF I take my 5 gallon recipe (OG of 1.070) and change it to 4 gallons into the fermenter, the OG changes to 1.087...

I would HIGHLY recommend getting software to help figure it out for you.

You can do some additional things to get the boil pot/kettle damned close to full, and NOT have boil-overs... The easiest is to add 2-3 drops of fermcap-s to the pot just as it comes to a boil. Just leave a bit more space than the actual boil will occupy (the action of boiling, so at least 1/2" from the lip) and you should be safe. I've seen this done in person, and it works.

I would also recommend installing a ball valve into the larger pot, and use it to mash/sparge in, as well as boil. That way, you can change the water, not shift the bag around. Depending on how much grain you're mashing, will determine how much mash water you'll collect. You can then just pull the grain from the sparge pot (or drain it into the smaller pot before getting everything you can from the grain), then pour it all back into the larger pot for the boil. You don't NEED to use a single pot to hold the mash wort. You could use just about anything, including multiple containers/bowls/pots/etc... Since it's going to be boiled, they just need to be clean...

 

[agenthucky]

Actually, the efficiency shouldn't be any better, you'll just have a higher ABV since the wort will be more concentrated.

Thanks for the correction, I didn't mean to say efficiency is better, just your amount of extract would be denser. Efficiency won't change with volume, just the density of the extract. I should have used the term gravity and not efficiency

 

[Golddiggie]

Thanks for the correction, I didn't mean to say efficiency is better, just your amount of extract would be denser. Efficiency won't change with volume, just the density of the extract. I should have used the term gravity and not efficiency

Just making sure we're on the same page... Don't get me wrong... More ABV from the same amount of grain is a great thing... Provided the brew is balanced... If it hits the same FG, you could be looking at an increase of over 1% ABV...

I will say that as much as I liked BIAB while using it, I'm loving using the converted cooler mash tun... Plus, I've installed a ball valve into my main brew pot (converting it into a kettle) which is also a game changer (in a positive way)... Gone from 7+ hour brew days to under 5 hours by also adding a propane burner to the mix. IF you have a way to go there, if you don't have a stove that can get 6+ gallons of wort up to a boil in a decent amount of time (<20 minutes) then I would do it...

 

[gce]

What about adjusting the yeast if I'm doing a 4 gallon batch? Should I just put in 4/5 of the packet or is that not necessary.

 

[Golddiggie]

What about adjusting the yeast if I'm doing a 4 gallon batch? Should I just put in 4/5 of the packet or is that not necessary.

Completely unnecessary... Just pitch the entire rehydrated packet in... I've used the same amount (granted I'm talking mead here) in everything from 1 gallon through 5 gallon batches. Zero issues resulted.

 

[Justibone]

What about adjusting the yeast if I'm doing a 4 gallon batch? Should I just put in 4/5 of the packet or is that not necessary.

Not necessary.

Rule of thumb: when working with pre-packaged dry yeast, just pitch what ya got. When working with pre-packaged wet yeast, you can pitch what you got if you want to (especially into smaller batches, like Mr Beer sized batches), but it really is safer to go ahead and make a starter. When washing or re-using yeast, then you need to worry about overpitching, underpitching, etc. etc. etc.

So: using pre-packaged dry yeast? No worries for 4 gal vs. 5 gal.

 

[agenthucky]

What about adjusting the yeast if I'm doing a 4 gallon batch? Should I just put in 4/5 of the packet or is that not necessary.

no pitch it all. you really can't have too much yeast. and if you're pitching dry or yeast from a packet, that isn't nearly enough anyway, so you'll pitch and aerate like you normally would.

 

[Golddiggie]

no pitch it all. you really can't have too much yeast. and if you're pitching dry or yeast from a packet, that isn't nearly enough anyway, so you'll pitch and aerate like you normally would.

Not always true... You can overpitch if you use way too much yeast, or far more than recommended via Mr. Malty (like 1.5x+ their recommendations)... But, most of us find that what we're pitching in doesn't come close to that. Most of the time we're trying to get at least up to the recommended cell count...

I wouldn't pitch a full pack of yeast into a 1 gallon batch with an OG of <1.020. Well, except for when making a starter, but you're not going to drink THAT... Right?

 

[agenthucky]

Not always true... You can overpitch if you use way too much yeast, or far more than recommended via Mr. Malty (like 1.5x+ their recommendations)... But, most of us find that what we're pitching in doesn't come close to that. Most of the time we're trying to get at least up to the recommended cell count...

I wouldn't pitch a full pack of yeast into a 1 gallon batch with an OG of <1.020. Well, except for when making a starter, but you're not going to drink THAT... Right?

well, this why why I said 'can't really'. At homebrewer levels it is almost impossible unless doing it is on purpose. the amount of yeast in packets, dry or wet, is nowhere near the optimal cell count. Even pitching a large starter still has room to grow. Overpitching matters more on the pro level.

a homebrewer would notice underpitching, but I have never heard a homebrewer say "Oh, gross, this beer was way overpitched". And 'overpitching' happens ALL time at the homebrew level. Ever just brew a beer right on top of one you just racked off of? This has a cell count way over what mr malty says to pitch. I have had some delicious beers made this way. You get a rather quick fermentation, but you won't notice any off flavors (maybe low on the esters). I've never had a problem with extra yeast, or autolysis at the homebrew level. In fact, BBR did an experiment about autolysis and came back with no definitive evidence.

let's not even get into the fact that a homebrewer has no easy way to measure the active cell count.

Lagers are triple pitched. High gravity beers doubled. You will strain yeast if they have so much food but so little numbers, I don't think the reverse provides any noticeable qualities at the homebrew level.

that said, why would you brew a gallon of 1.020 beer and pitching an $8 packet of yeast to it?

and with THAT said, why not try it?

 

[gce]

Brewed my first beer last night using this method. I went with a scaled down version of Ed Wort's Haus Pale Ale. Hit my temps dead on and lost less than a degree over 60 mins (insulated with towels and a pillow). My OG ended up being 1.055-56 instead of 1.051. Could this have been from using a 4/5 version of the recipe? I don't fully understand the meaning of gravity yet.

 

[gce]

One more question, somehow I got the idea that my sparge water should be 175 degrees when I beging my teabag sparge. Was I right or could I possibly have hurt the beer a little? I'm not sure how to calculate the temperature change for the teabagging process.

 

[agenthucky]

One more question, somehow I got the idea that my sparge water should be 175 degrees when I beging my teabag sparge. Was I right or could I possibly have hurt the beer a little? I'm not sure how to calculate the temperature change for the teabagging process.

If your sparge water is 175F before sparging, it will drop well below the 168-170 area that is considered a Mash Out for sparging. This is the optimal temperature but if it is below you will still be fine. The most important thing is that you rinse the grain to get the sugar that has already been converted. Raising the sparge to 170 will stop the enzymes from turning the startch into sugar. If you sparge (grains in at this point) with anything above that you risk the chance of extracting tannons, but for the short time we sparge (ten min) I don't think it is a huge deal.

 

[ThickHead]

Alright DB....

Strike water is coming up to temp as I type this. I grabbed a couple 7.5 gal stainless steel Polar Ware pots (note: 3.5 gal strike water not deep enough in these pots to use the floating thermometer properly).

I am working on eschatz' Two-Hearted clone with your stove-top process tonight. I will document the adventure as well as share the results in eschatz' thread.

 

[ThickHead]

because i use a smaller amount of water during the actual process, however, i don't get the best efficiency. as low as 60%, sometimes. but that's a small price to pay for the convenience of my kitchen. i use this method with my burner and can get up to 80% efficiency, if i'm on top of my game.

I took my first stab at using this process last night. The only significant variation in my process is that I used two 7.5 gallon brew pots which allowed me more flexibility with my total mash volume.

My grain bill was a total of 13 lbs (eschatz' Two-Hearted clone) and I decided to heat up 3.5 gallons of strike water. I over-estimated the temperature drop during dough-in and ended up about 5 degrees higher (155 F instead of 150 F) than I was targeting. To get the temperature where I wanted it I had to add another half gallon of water to the mash. So I ended up mashing with a water volume of 4 gallons.

As I was targeting 5.5 total gallons for the boil (which was my best guess for what my electric stove-top could boil) my sparge volume was 2.5 gallons (figuring on losing a gallon to absorption during the mash). I ended up with exactly 5.5 gallons for the boil. I crossed my fingers and turned the burner to high. Though it took a while my electric stove-top had no problem bring 5.5 gallons to a decent boil.

I lost about 1.5 gallons to evaporation during my 60 minute boil so I ended up with 4 gallons of wort to cool. After cooling and adding the wort to my fermentor, I topped off with 1 gallon of water to reach my target volume of 5 gallons. I took my OG reading and pitched my yeast.

I used Pro Mash for the first time so I could calculate water volumes and track my efficiency at the end of the brew session. I was targeting an OG of 1.064 and ended up with 1.065. If I am using (and reading) Pro Mash properly I ended up achieving 85% efficiency. So unless I am dead-wrong (which is quite probable) it seems one does not necessarily need to sacrifice efficiency using your all-grain stove-top process. Good news!

Cheers!