Easy Steam Infusion Mash System

[cyberbackpacker]

Kladue on here is extremely knowledgeable about steam, I believe he does it professionally... maybe pm him and ask him. He is the steam guru. When you get an answer, then post it for the rest of us!

 

[cmcnair1]

To test the system, I heated 5 gallons of water from 122 degrees F to 152 F. Using only steam for heat, I was able to raise the temperature of the water in the cooler in about 15 minutes. I was a bit disappointed, since Brewman was able to heat water with his system at about twice that speed.

I did some trial and error with finer hose (1/8" silicone tubing), and a manifold made from smaller 1/4" copper tubing (see below). While the smaller diameter tubing and manifold increased the pressure of the steam injection, it did little to change the heating times (in fact it took longer).

I discussed this with Brewman across multiple, multiple PMs and we decided that the bottleneck in my system was the heat source. Through some fancy calculations based on heat transfer in the cooler, Brewman calculated that I was delivering the equivalent of 2.4 kw of energy with this system, which is approximately the output of the burner on my stove. We also decided that a larger pot, which holds a greater volume of water, would be able to deliver more heat to the manifold because it has a greater capacity to store energy in the form of heat and pressure. I confirmed this with my system – I had an initial rise in temperature that was very fast for the first few minutes of steam injection, and then the heating dropped to a lower but consistent rate (apparently as the pressure in my pot dropped and the stored energy was transferred). Brewman’s system was presumably more efficient because he has a 4.5 gallon pressure cooker that can store 4 times the heat.

Bottom line: If you want faster heating, a larger pressure cooker and/or a hotter heat source (e.g., a gas burner??) is necessary. However, the heating time in my system seems reasonable for achieving a multi-step mash. I am going to try one tonight when I brew an AG hefe-weizen recipe, and I will report back with my success.

I see that you have the steam manifold below the SS braid. I use a false bottom. Would that pose a problem - or just place the steam manifold atop the false bottom?

thanks! great work.....

 

[ChillyP]

I don't think I've read anywhere about how much water you put into you pressure cooker..

 

[FlyGuy]

I only put about 4 litres in the pot, and surprisingly most of it is still there after the step mash. Since then, however, I have upgraded to a 5 gallon pressure cooker (performs better, but still uses very little water).

 

[ChillyP]

Cool. I'm in the process of trying to get mine all up and going and I have a 5 gallon pressure cooker (bought it originally for yeast slant,etc) and was wondering the amount of water. So how much do you put in your 5 gallon?

 

[FlyGuy]

If I am using it to sterilize equipment, then just an inch of water or so.

If I am using it for steam injection in the mash, then I put about 3 gals in it. You will never come close to using all of that, but it provides a lot of thermal mass so that you can really transfer a lot of heat to your mash tun at once.

 

[killian]

Thanks for writing this up fly, any update on the SRIMS?

Is there a concern with using too much heat under the cooker?

 

[ChillyP]

I was curious at what pressure do you open the valve at? 15psi?

 

[FlyGuy]

Thanks for writing this up fly, any update on the SRIMS?

Is there a concern with using too much heat under the cooker?

Last month I finally got all the parts I need to finish the build. Time has been hard to come by lately, though. I have the itch to brew and finish the build, but sometimes life just gets in the way.

And yes, you can overheat a pressure cooker. They are only meant to withstand the heat of a stove, so if you put it on a Cajun cooker or Banjo burner or something, it could be very bad for your health. Even on the stove you should watch it.

I was curious at what pressure do you open the valve at? 15psi?

Yes, I let the pressure cooker come to full boil, purge the cooker to expel any air in the cooker, then hook up the transfer hose to the MLT. Once it is back to a full boil and 15 PSI, then it is ready to use.

 

[killian]

got any pics of your 5 gallon cooker?

 

[killian]

So I'm working on a build for this and I have a couple of issues,

I'm trying to build this with out sweating copper

would this http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4TK26 work connected to the T?

 

[noisy123]

If I am using it to sterilize equipment, then just an inch of water or so.

If I am using it for steam injection in the mash, then I put about 3 gals in it. You will never come close to using all of that, but it provides a lot of thermal mass so that you can really transfer a lot of heat to your mash tun at once.

I also put about 3 gallons in. Two weeks ago I did two 12 gallon batches back-to-back and had an inch of water left in the pot.

Is anyone using a false bottom in place of a manifold? Any problems with this?


I would like to add, that I have been using this technique for countless batches, and just wanted to thank the author for the innovation.

 

[dstar26t]

I went from a cooler to a keg MLT. Here's what I did:

Cooler with drain/steam manifold, batch sparging:

Keg with false bottom and separate steam ring, fly sparging:

The holes in the ring point at different angles to evenly distribute the steam.

 

[Douglefish]

First of all, this thread is AWESOME, lots of cool ideas. I have a couple of questions...

dstar26 - have you used your setup yet? Is the recirculation enough movement to not have to stir? That would be really ideal

Anyone - If i get a 23 qt pressure cooker, fill it half way with water upstairs and start get it up to pressure. Would there be enough stored energy in it to do a step mash without it being on direct heat? I'm trying to avoid putting a burner in by my RIG.

Thanks

 

[dstar26t]

Still have to stir, there is a lot of instant heat in the steam.
You're going to need a burner under it and I wouldn't recommend carrying around a pressurized pressure cooker anyway.

 

[killian]

what type of burner are you guys using? The info that came with my pressure cooker said not to use a "turkey fryer" burner, should I just ignore this?

 

[ChillyP]

what type of burner are you guys using? The info that came with my pressure cooker said not to use a "turkey fryer" burner, should I just ignore this?

I think the reason it say not to use a Turkey fryer is because it's designed for a stove top. Mine said the same thing but I've used it on a turkey fryer. I also think its because a turkey fryer is normally rated to be higher BTU then a stove (don't quote me I'm making an assumption) and that people might step inside the house when running it to do something. I've noticed on mine that once it is pressured, it goes up pretty quick in PSI and I can see someone stepping in for a split second and the relief valve blowing out or worse the pressure cooker goes Chernobyl. Just my two cents.....I'm probably totally wrong. If you use a TF watch it closely.

 

[killian]

I'm guessing most people are using propane burners. Anyone using a banjo burner?

 

[dstar26t]

I use a SQ-14. When adding steam to the mash, it's on full blast and the steam pressure still goes down. I have to let it recharge 1-2 times when going to mashout, depending on grain bill.

 

[MTEXX]

Hello folks, new member here. Apologies for resurrecting this thread - it seemed like the most appropriate place for my question. I'm a long time lurker with grand plans for steam driven mashing using a pressure cooker.

I'd prefer an all-electric solution for steam generation, and I've got 220v power available. I've not been able to find any external heating in the 4000+ watt range except for band heaters which would get expensive.

There's another thread that shows a heating element built into a corny keg for steam generation. My thoughts run to modifying the pressure cooker to take a heating element. That probably means drilling through the side of the cooker and mounting the element there. And heck, let's drill another hole for a temperature probe while we're at it, so I can run it with a PID. Goal would be to automate the system to maintain pressure at some point below 15 psi.

To note, I'm speaking of modifying a 23qt aluminum pressure cooker already in my posession. I'd leave the other safety features in place: pressure relief valve & emergency pop out pressure relief valve (present on this model).

Given appropriate mounting and leak testing, do you think the structural integrity of the pressure cooker would be significantly affected? Dangerously so?

I'd like to do the same.
My idea is to drill and tap for 1" NPT in the side of the pressure cooker and thread in the water heater element. Any thoughts on this before I potentially destroy a 80$ vessel or inadvertently create a steam rocket?

Great thread. I've read the entire thing =D

 

[orangehero]

Is there any reason why you have the steam manifold stationary?

If you're not trying to get automated control, could you simply construct some kind of steam injecting mash paddle? That way you can stir and heat simultaneously.

And is anyone running output from the steam source at greater than 1/4" tubing/piping? If so, how is your performance?

 

[mhermetz]

Looking for Christmas ideas and this seems like a winner!

Think this electric pressure cooker will work for 5 gallon?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00854625000P?sid=IDx20070921x00003h&srccode=cii_5784816&cpncode=24-115903928-2

 

[jimmayhugh]

I'm ramping up to start doing AG, and really like the idea of using steam, so here's my setup so far...

I've got my march pump, another 10Gal HLT, and just got a 50qt pot that needs a weldless fitting.

Slowly but surely...

 

[helibrewer]

I'm ramping up to start doing AG, and really like the idea of using steam, so here's my setup so far...

I've got my march pump, another 10Gal HLT, and just got a 50qt pot that needs a weldless fitting.

Slowly but surely...

So UPS delivered an "All American 21.5 Qt Aluminum Pressure Cooker" today that looks just like yours. If you have a moment please let me know what hardware you used to add the valve to the lid. My wife cans so we'll both get to use it, I love multipurpose

 

[helibrewer]

Has anyone tried this without venting the steam into the wort? I was wondering about using a mini immersion chiller type configuration with just a couple loops and venting the steam outside the MLT. I though you might still be able to have very good temp control without the superheated steam coming in contact with the wort. This, along with a recirc pump might eliminate the need to stir.

Just a thought.

 

[jimmayhugh]

So UPS delivered an "All American 21.5 Qt Aluminum Pressure Cooker" today that looks just like yours. If you have a moment please let me know what hardware you used to add the valve to the lid. My wife cans so we'll both get to use it, I love multipurpose

Here's a photo, sorry the light's bad, and I'm kind of shakey

The t, and nipple are 1/8" NPT, then the 1/8" to 1/4" adapter, a 1/4" brass ball valve, and a 3/8" hose barb, all purchased at Home Depot.

Again, sorry for the less than ideal photo.

The manifold is 3/8" soft copper tubing, with a 3/8" compression fitting, a 3/8" check valve from McMaster-Carr, and another 3/8" hose barb.. I use 3/8" hi-temp silicone tubing, and have replaced the screw clamp with zip-ties to secure everything.

Hope this helps.

 

[amb1935]

[Disclaimer: Although this worked for me, I do not recommend tampering or modifying a pressure cooker in any way. Modifying or removing safety devices on a pressure cooker can lead to explosion and possible injury. Blah, blah, blah...]

Pressure cooker: Pretty much any decent size pressure cooker (use AT LEAST a 1.5 gal unit) will work, although I wish I had gone with a much bigger unit (see below). If you are lucky, you might be able to unscrew one of the fittings on your pot, insert a tee junction, and run attach your valve to the pot this way (worked for brewman !; see here). The fittings on my pot were too small, so I tapped a 1/8” NPT thread into the lid, and screwed in my valve to control the flow of steam. Works perfectly. I also added a 3 inch piece of 1/4" copper tubing to the valve (it has a built in 1/4" compression fitting) to attach the tubing. A 3/8" inch hose clamp would be a good idea – mine held without it…. until I kinked the silicone tubing and it blew the hose right off the pot!

Steam manifold: I bent 3/8" tubing around a small pot to form a loop. I sweated a T junction to complete the loop. I then drilled about eight 1/16" holes in the tubing with a drill to allow the steam to escape. The silicone tubing can be stretched over the end of the T junction, and mine was snug enough that it did not require a hose clamp. A small thumb clamp can be added to the hose if you want to stop the flow of steam at the manifold end (useful to prevent backflow when the steam flow is stopped at the pot).

Did you have any trouble tapping the new hole in the pressure cooker lid for the new valve to screw into? I'm about to do the same (although maybe with a larger diameter) and am a bit worried about drilling and tapping a hole in the thin metal lid. I have no experience in tapping new threads. Thanks!

 

[helibrewer]

I've made a progression toward a SRIMS setup. Rather than have the copper manifold in the MLT, I enclosed the steam tube in a 3/4" copper pipe forming a heat exchanger. I use my March pump to pump through the heat exchanger then through my CPVC manifold into the MLT.

 

[rognick17]

Thanks for your excellent post. I'm building a system based on it, starting with a 15.5 pressure canner (used, from eBay)..

Did you give any thought to running the steam supply line through the wall of the mash-tun?

 

[supersillyis]

I am going to build a steam heating system using a bucket with a drum tap and my induction burner. After reading most of the thread; why even use a manifold? Why not just cap the end of the silicon hose and poke a bunch of small holes in it and lay it along the bottom of the vessel? can anyone think of any reason not to?