Dry ice to prevent oxidation when racking?

[battlephrog]

So I'm looking at ways to prevent O2 exposure when racking in to secondary. I had the idea of throwing some dry ice in the empty carboy letting it sublimate then racking. Thoughts from the masses?

 

[Howhownow]

Absolutely no input of value, but interested to hear from folks who may have some.

 

[Warthaug]

Dry ice is generally not sterile, and can contain oils from the equipment used to make it. Its generally not recommended.

Bryan

 

[edroberts]

This would certainly help purge the carboy of oxygen. However 2 things come to mind:
1. Is there an overwelming need to secondary at all?
2. Be careful with the extreme temperatures. There is a chance the carboy could flash freeze and contract enough to cause a crack in the carboy. In the same respect, if the carboy hasn't warmed from the cooling of the dry ice and you rack 60 F degree beer on top, it also could pose a cracking hazard.

 

[edroberts]

I also agree with Warthaug.
I vaguely remember someone doing this, but using a blow-off tube and gravity to drop the CO2 into the secondary vessel. This way it eliminates most of the cleanliness and temperature issues.

 

[battlephrog]

Thanks for the feed back. I'm doing an imperial stout so it needs to go into secondary. I will probably try the blow off/gravity method, or live dangerously and just rack.

 

[Warthaug]

Like Ed said, if you do want to go this route it would be best to use a flask/container to contain the dry ice, and to then pipe in the sublimated CO2 using sanitized tubing. Plus, as mentioned above, cold shock + glass carboy = problems.

 

[JoshuaW]

Why not just use a CO2 bottle to flush the secondary vessel with CO2?

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I've noticed when racking beer to secondary quite a bit of CO2 gets knocked out of suspension so it will tend to purge the air out on its own as the carboy begins to fill. *Knocks on wood* I haven't had issues with oxidation and I've done tons of secondary transfers.

A lot of oxidation issues during transfers are caused by lose fitting hoses (the suction will start to pull air into the tubing and mix with the beer), or splashing from the beer hitting the bottom of the carboy, or splashing up and making a wave like effect and starting to flip and mix gas into solution. If your hose rests in the middle of the carboy and at the very bottom, there shouldn't be any need for extraneous steps like purging with a CO2 bottle or dry ice.

*Be that as it may, dry ice is friggin cool so any chance to play with dry ice or a tube of compressed *insert any gas* is always fun.

 

[VApatriot]

I think that you all panic way too much about oxidation. I always rack to a secondary carboy full of air, and from the secondary to my bottling bucket without a lid on it, and I've never had a single problem with oxidation. I also always gently stir the beer with the bottling sugar solution after it's racked before I start bottling too, never had an oxidation problem.

 

[steveoatley]

There is a whole nother thread about Dry Ice - stated about bottling

some good info in there

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=497622

Steve

 

[Warthaug]

I think that you all panic way too much about oxidation. I always rack to a secondary carboy full of air, and from the secondary to my bottling bucket without a lid on it, and I've never had a single problem with oxidation. I also always gently stir the beer with the bottling sugar solution after it's racked before I start bottling too, never had an oxidation problem.

Depends on what you're brewing. I usually don't even bother with a secondary except for when I brew beers I'm intending on laying down for over a year (I brew long-aging beers 1-2 times/year). For these beers, not being absolutely anal about oxygenation after primary fermentation is complete is detrimental to the aging process. Prior to purging everything (carboys, kegs, bottles) after primary fermentation my beers rarely lasted more than 2 years. Today, I've got 5+ year old barley wines laid down that are still improving.

B

 

[day_trippr]

I think that you all panic way too much about oxidation.[tales of questionable practices redacted][...]

I've tasted many "off" homebrews over the years...

Cheers!

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I've tasted many "off" homebrews over the years...

Cheers!

I think he was more suggesting that going so far as to build a rig to accomodate dry ice sublimation purging is above and beyond what is needed if you are careful with other stuff. I have similar practices but I just make sure theres no splashing or excessive bubbles feeding through the siphon tubes.

Not to say my beers are perfect, but, when one of my beers have an off flavor it can be traced to much more obvious macro problems (temp control, recipe, sanitation). His point was, if you are careful, you shouldn't have to go for the nuclear option. I have 2 different beers that are rolling on towards 2 years, and 1 1/2 years that have yet to show classic oxidation issues, could be dumb luck I didn't oxygenate the hell out of them, could be that I just avoided the really obvious issues that cause oxidation (siphon tube several inches off the bottom of the carboy/bottling bucket, mixing priming solution too vigorously, racking cane to siphon tube mismatching sizes causing the siphon to pull in air).

Edit: I have moved away from the practice of secondary simply because most of my beers really dont need it and I need to mow through some of my old stock before I increase my brewing frequency again.

 

[steveoatley]

and there is this one....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/dry-...acking-225825/



Steve