Dry Hopping With Whole Hops...Mold!

[NYC]

Hey Guys,

So I took a look at the nice porter I dry hopped with 1oz Northern Brewer a few days ago, preparing to rack it to my corny and have a nice Sunday brew...WTF? It appears after 8 months of brewing I've ruined my first batch

A search of the forums turned up this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/can-dry-hopping-contaminate-batch-57308/, but I haven't been able to find anyone who has had a similar issue.

I'm all about the process of brewing to be one of constant learning, but I'm not sure what my take away should be here. Thoughts? Condolences? Maybe it's still safe to drink? I doubt it, but this hasn't stopped me before

Thanks in advance!

 

[rycov]

i don't think hops can have anything on them that can contaminate the beer. after fermentation the beer has alcohol to help protect it, and hops are antibacterial and a preservative. did anything else touch your beer? were your hands clean?

also i don't think it can hurt you. try to rack the beer out from under that scuz and taste it. if its good then i'd drink it.

 

[NYC]

Now that's what I'm talking about!

I tasted a bit when I was racking to secondary and I'd really hate to loose this batch. If you don't hear from me for a while, you'll know what happened, or at least how.

I kegged another batch tonight so I've got a few days to wait for other responses to let me know I'm about to kill myself... Thanks!

 

[biggben]

I dry hop with whole hops all the time when I make my Mac and jack clone. I have never had a problem ever.

 

[NYC]

Yeah, I'm not sure what I could have done...nothing but the racking cane touched the beer. My hands were clean. I've dry hopped plenty of times before but never with whole hops.



Dunno, here's a closer shot of the mold. I guess I'll just rack the beer out and see how it goes.

 

[biggben]

What kind of sanitizer do you use?

 

[biggben]

And also just wondering is it possible that some of the water from your airlock got sucked in to the carboy (or do you use vodka?)?

 

[NYC]

SanStar...and vodka.

 

[thegerm]

hops aren't magically antiseptic or sterile. things can and do live on them, even if they are resistant to some flora/fauna, they aren't 100%. hops just tend not to introduce enough bugs to create a tipping point of infection.

anyway, even if you do have some kind of bacterial infection or wild yeast, it's not likely to be dangerous to your health. acetobacter, lactobacillus, pediococcus, brettanomyces, etc will change the beer, but tasting it won't hurt you*.

*I am not a doctor, any and all statements made herein are meant for entertainment purposes only, consult your physician and always wear your seatbelt.

 

[NYC]

LOL, cool, I'll give it a shot. Thanks guys!

 

[D_Ranged_Eskimo]

Let us know how this turns out. I'm interested to know how it tastes around the mold for scientific purposes since you are taking the position of the guinea pig!

 

[Coff]

Rack it an bottle, the beer is fine as long as it tastes the way it should. I had a stout that was in secondary for 4 months look the same way and it turned out great. My buddy had a Pumpkin ale that had the same white film on top, racked and bottled and its fantastic.

 

[elementfiftyfour]

I would suspect that the contamination is more due to the air let when you dry hopped in rather than the Hops themselves.

If you are really scared contamination due to dry hopping you could soak the hops in just enough Bacardi 151 to "sanitize" them. The alcohol strength should be enough to kill even the bad stuff but the amount is still small enough not to have an effect on your brew. Secondly you can add your hops near the end of your primary fermentation. This allow for enough CO2 production to blow off the air you let into the carboy when you remove the airlock to drop in the hops. But preferentially you don't want to add them when you have a ton of CO2 production so that you blow off all your aromatic goodness that you are trying to get out of your dry hop addition.

Good Luck.

 

[Dert]

There are plenty of mold spores on hops. Looks like the active phase of fermentation was over when added and the headspace never got purged of O2, allowing the mold to grow.

As a microbiologist, I'd dump it - yuck!

 

[DeafSmith]

There are plenty of mold spores on hops. Looks like the active phase of fermentation was over when added and the headspace never got purged of O2, allowing the mold to grow.

As a microbiologist, I'd dump it - yuck!

Does mold have to have O2 in order to grow? I don't know, but if so, it's a useful fact for future reference.

 

[bottlebomber]

That's quite a bit of headspace there chief...

 

[Lost]

It is probably just fine. As others have stated, standard protocol in this situation is to rack the wort from under the mold.

I scoop mold off sour cream and eat it (the sour cream) all the time. It's fine.

It would be interesting to know if indeed the presence of oxygen allowed the mold to grow. Maybe I will give the carboy a blast of co2 before dry hopping next time. This could be a good reason to dry hop in the keg if you are kegging.

 

[Dert]

Yes most molds require O2 to grow...

 

[bigljd]

There are plenty of mold spores on hops. Looks like the active phase of fermentation was over when added and the headspace never got purged of O2, allowing the mold to grow.

As a microbiologist, I'd dump it - yuck!

You think that's yuck, look at what people are intentionally doing to perfectly good beer in this thread

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/pellicle-photo-collection-174033/

-

 

[shattstar03]

The same thing happened to me today, I saw a few specks of mold starting to grow in my secondary, I realized it was probably due to my head-space, so I just added a distilled gallon of water to tighten the space and prevent it from growing more.

I rather drink weaker beer than moldy beer, I'm not sure if I made the problem worse. I figured the lack of O2 would prevent further growth. I guess its a last ditch effort for me to not drink moldy beer.

 

[bigbeergeek]

If you are really scared contamination due to dry hopping you could soak the hops in just enough Bacardi 151 to "sanitize" them.

Please, no one do this. Never add 151 to your dry hops!

 

[Lost]

The same thing happened to me today, I saw a few specks of mold starting to grow in my secondary, I realized it was probably due to my head-space, so I just added a distilled gallon of water to tighten the space and prevent it from growing more.

I rather drink weaker beer than moldy beer, I'm not sure if I made the problem worse. I figured the lack of O2 would prevent further growth. I guess its a last ditch effort for me to not drink moldy beer.

I would have racked it to another vessel before watering it down. Maybe add a half cup of corn sugar to promote some co2 production if I didn't have a co2 tank on hand.

Still, let us know how the water/headspace approach works. It would be nice to know what works and what does not.

 

[NYC]

You think that's yuck, look at what people are intentionally doing to perfectly good beer in this thread

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/pellicle-photo-collection-174033/

-

Interesting...so maybe this mold is a good thing

Either way, I racked to a clean carboy and am waiting for one of my cornys to run dry and then I'll give this beast a shot.

 

[shattstar03]

Quick question, did you remove the stopper on your carboy for any other reason than dry hopping?

 

[elementfiftyfour]

Please, no one do this. Never add 151 to your dry hops!

Just curious why this is a bad idea.

 

[bottlebomber]

Just curious why this is a bad idea.

For one, because unless your making a porter or something rum would definitely be an unwanted flavor.

There are lots more reasons though.

 

[elementfiftyfour]

For one, because unless your making a porter or something rum would definitely be an unwanted flavor.

There are lots more reasons though.

Aside from putting about 1oz of nearly 75% ethyl alcohol into 5Gal (640oz) of beer what are the other reasons this is a bad idea?

I'm a somewhat new homebrewer, only been doing it for about 4 yrs, so I'm not trying to act like I know it all but I am asking as an interest in the scientific nature of it.

I use vodka or rum in my air lock for the specific reason that if some of it gets sucked into the carboy there are no adverse effects on the beer. And I have read that vodka or another high alcohol spirit is good for sterilizing tools, glassware or the packet of yeast before you open it.

 

[NYC]

Quick question, did you remove the stopper on your carboy for any other reason than dry hopping?

Nope. I've always followed a fairly routine process, and did not remove the stopper for anything other than dry hopping.

However, here's my new theory: I had the opened, clamped-shut mylar bag of Northern Brewer whole leaf in my keezer. I'm still working out (read: procrastinating) the temperature controller, so many times it is turned off and at room temperature. I imagine something could have built up in the keezer and transferred to the hops.

Sound like a theory?

 

[day_trippr]

Aside from putting about 1oz of nearly 75% ethyl alcohol into 5Gal (640oz) of beer what are the other reasons this is a bad idea?

I'm a somewhat new homebrewer, only been doing it for about 4 yrs, so I'm not trying to act like I know it all but I am asking as an interest in the scientific nature of it.

I use vodka or rum in my air lock for the specific reason that if some of it gets sucked into the carboy there are no adverse effects on the beer. And I have read that vodka or another high alcohol spirit is good for sterilizing tools, glassware or the packet of yeast before you open it.

I also use (wicked cheap!) vodka in my ferm locks for the same reason.

I imagine if one was even more OC about sanitation than I am and was thus paranoid about "critters" being introduced by whole hops, using some (wicked cheap!) grain alcohol to soak them might avoid any unwanted flavoring in the finished product...

Cheers!

 

[bigbeergeek]

Aside from putting about 1oz of nearly 75% ethyl alcohol into 5Gal (640oz) of beer what are the other reasons this is a bad idea?

I'm a somewhat new homebrewer, only been doing it for about 4 yrs, so I'm not trying to act like I know it all but I am asking as an interest in the scientific nature of it.

I use vodka or rum in my air lock for the specific reason that if some of it gets sucked into the carboy there are no adverse effects on the beer. And I have read that vodka or another high alcohol spirit is good for sterilizing tools, glassware or the packet of yeast before you open it.

Not going to threadjack this thread -- although the idea of sanitizing hops before dry hopping a beer is certainly related to the OP's dilemma.

It's not that an ounce of 151 is going to ruin the batch of beer. If only a fraction of an ounce was applied with a spray bottle (for example) it would likely be below the threshold of detection. 151 tastes horrible and I would avoid it going into my beer anyway just on principle, but that's another matter entirely.

The reason why I wouldn't advocate adding sanitizer to dry hops is because it is unnecessary. Hops have been added to casks of beer for hundreds of years for the positive affects they have against beer spoilage. Major breweries like Stone, Sierra Nevada etc add thousands of pounds of dry hops to their ales ever single year without disastrous results. At the homebrewer's level dry hops -- without sanitizers of any kind -- are commonplace and completely safe. The issue at hand here is how the brewer handles the hops, how they are transferred to the beer. Are the carboys clean? Is the top of the neck swabbed with rubbing alcohol before cramming whole hops in there? What about the hop sack? What about the brewers hands? Adding sanitizing chemicals to the hops is a waste of sanitizer or bad rum... end rant.