Dry Hoppin' in the Primary

[Netflyer]

Hey, I was wondering - I never dry hop but I need to now, can I just put the hops in the primary after 10 days and leave it for my usual 3-4 weeks? I have some nice hop bags I was thinking just boil up the bag first to sanitize it, throw in the hops and just toss the bag in the primary...

Thoughts?

 

[GOOCHY]

Yep, or just throw the hops in - either way.

 

[brew502]

I would transfer to secondary to get it off the rub to prevent off flavors and then add the hops. The hops should already be sterilized to the best of my knowledge though but I could be wrong.

 

[brew502]

Just found this I hope it helps ..............Many beginning brewers are fearful of contaminating their beer by adding the uncooked dry hops. While it is true that uncooked dry hops may harbor some bacteria, the practice of dry hopping virtually never contaminates a beer. Never. Therefore, don't worry, dry hop, and be happy.

By far, the best time to dry hop is after most or all fermentation had taken place. Once wort has fermented into beer, it has become a more biologically stable. For example, after fermentation is complete, beer is anaerobic, meaning there is no oxygen dissolved in the beer. Many beer spoilage organisms are aerobic, and in the absence of oxygen, these spoilage organisms remain permanently dormant. Second, the beer now contains alcohol, which further inhibits spoilage organisms. Finally, the process of yeast fermentation drops the beer's pH, making the environment inhospitably to the bad guys. Three strikes and you're out.

 

[Cliff897]

What Brew502 says.
Do it in the secondary after the initial active fermentation is over.
If you put 'em in too soon all the CO2 escaping will also carry all the aromatic bouquet of hops away with it.

And like Brew502 says they simply never contaminate your brew.

 

[Revvy]

Many many many of us who opt for the long primary no secondary route dry hope in primary. All you have to do is wait til fermentation finishes so the production of co2 doesn't drive off the hop aroma.

If I am primarying for a month (which is my usual) and I want to dry hop for a week, then I add them on week three. And then bottle right after.

That's all you need to do.

 

[Revvy]

I would transfer to secondary to get it off the rub to prevent off flavors and then add the hops. The hops should already be sterilized to the best of my knowledge though but I could be wrong.

There's been a big shift in brewing consciousness in the last few years where many of us believe that yeast is a good thing, and besides just fermenting the beer, that they are fastidious creatures who go back and clean up any by products created by themselves during fermentation, which may lead to off flavors.

Rather than the yeast being the cause of off flavors, it is now looked at by many of us, that they will if left alone actually remove those off flavors, and make for clearer and cleaner tasting beers.

You'll find that a great many folks, maybe even the majority on here these days, leave their beers in primary for 3-4 weeks, skipping secondary. Many of us even dry hop in primary, and only rack to secondary if we are adding oak or fruit, or had fruit in the boil or primary and left lots of trub behind.

Even John Palmer talks about this in How To Bew;

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

And this;

John Palmer

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.

People have left it as much as six months.

This is where the most up to date brewing wisdom and ideas can be found...In fact a lot of stuff has been started on here, and made it into byo or zymurgy or podcasts...in fact BYO DID a piece on no secondary/long primary, along with the BASIC BREWING PODCAST and even they said that there were no issues/harm with doing it and in some beers it did actually improve the flavor and clarity. And I believe that really WAS influenced by the discussion we have had for the last couple years on here.

Your beer should be crystal clear, very clean and crisp tasting. And when you rack to bottle you leave behind a really dense yeast/trub cake.


Believe me, after three years of doing the long primary/ no secondary I find no need to go back to doing it any other way. The quality of my beers has upped 10 ten fold.

 

[ottobrew]

I've had much success dry hopping in the primary post fermentation. Started out due to lack of carboy space and has now become my dry hopping practice.

 

[jmo88]

I wouldn't leave them in for 3-4 weeks. Higher temperatures (70F) extract oils at a higher rate than lower temps (~60F). Many brewers get optimal results dry hopping at the higher temps for 5 days or so. There was some good information on this shared by the brewer at Laguanitas on a 'Can You Brew It' podcast. Longer times risk extracting undesirable aspects from the hops. I do 10 days ferment and 10 days dry hop at 65F, generally. But yes, just toss them in.

 

[Revvy]

I wouldn't leave them in for 3-4 weeks. Higher temperatures (70F) extract oils at a higher rate than lower temps (~60F). Many brewers get optimal results dry hopping at the higher temps for 5 days or so. There was some good information on this shared by the brewer at Laguanitas on a 'Can You Brew It' podcast. Longer times risk extracting undesirable aspects from the hops. I do 10 days ferment and 10 days dry hop at 65F, generally. But yes, just toss them in.

I don't think anyone's planning to dry hop for 3-4 weeks. Noone does in secondary. That's why I said if you plan on dry hopping for a week, you add them to the primary on week three.

 

[jmo88]

I don't think anyone's planning to dry hop for 3-4 weeks. Noone does in secondary. That's why I said if you plan on dry hopping for a week, you add them to the primary on week three.

Hey, I was wondering - I never dry hop but I need to now, can I just put the hops in the primary after 10 days and leave it for my usual 3-4 weeks? I have some nice hop bags I was thinking just boil up the bag first to sanitize it, throw in the hops and just toss the bag in the primary...

I think that's Netflyer's plan

 

[OLDBREW]

I agree with brew502 I'd almost finish primary fermentation, then rack to the secondary, then pitch the hops directly into the fermenter once fermentation is complete.

The concensious hasn't changed in brewing science, It's only a few brewers that are trying to change new brewers thinking to their way of brewing. Statements get quoted out of context

If you want great beer, you need to get the healthy yeast and wort off the trub. If you want a ok beer then leave the wort sit on the trub

 

[Brew-boy]

Leave it in primary and dry hop, no need for secondary. You can make award winning beer this way a lot of us here at HBT do this.

 

[2bluewagons]

I agree with brew502 I'd almost finish primary fermentation, then rack to the secondary, then pitch the hops directly into the fermenter once fermentation is complete.

The concensious hasn't changed in brewing science, It's only a few brewers that are trying to change new brewers thinking to their way of brewing. Statements get quoted out of context

If you want great beer, you need to get the healthy yeast and wort off the trub. If you want a ok beer then leave the wort sit on the trub

I agree with you that some quotes are taken out of context, and maybe that's not exactly what Palmer was getting at. But it is more than a few brewers putting the long primary method out there. All over this forum and others, and among many award-winning homebrewers, secondary fermenters are going the way of the dodo.

At the same time I'm sure there are many folks out there who get great beer by racking to secondary and that's what they are going to continue to do. I'm guessing by your user name you fall into the latter group, so keep doing what you're doing, but maybe we won't count on you for the new tricks

All that said, my best results dry-hopping have been in the secondary. Adding hops to sanitized empty fermenter, purging with CO2 and racking fermented beer on top.

 

[OLDBREW]

At the same time I'm sure there are many folks out there who get great beer by racking to secondary and that's what they are going to continue to do. I'm guessing by your user name you fall into the latter group, so keep doing what you're doing, but maybe we won't count on you for the new tricks

All that said, my best results dry-hopping have been in the secondary. Adding hops to sanitized empty fermenter, purging with CO2 and racking fermented beer on top.

Ah the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" or "old doggs can't teach new tricks"..

I agree that you get the best results dry hopping in the secondary!

yes to.. if you have co2 capabilities?, flooding the bottom of the fermenter with co2 is a great way of racking. That goes for racking to the bottling bucket also!

 

[Netflyer]

Hmm, wasn't trying to start a controversy ... It's funny, prior to finding this wonderful place I stumbled on the long primary (3-4) weeks by accident out of laziness/too many primaries going stuff. My beer was more clear, cleaner - eg. no signs of fusal nasties, and the taste was as good as when I racked to a secondary. I proved this with many tasters and tastings. So I stopped secondarying entirely. Now with dry hopping needed I'm going to take the advice of the long primarying folks and go with putting the bag full o' hops in the primary after the 3rd week... I'll bottle on the 4th or 5th week.

I also have to agree about the wonderful yeast doing a great job of 'cleaning up the beer'. If this is only about stopping a headache it would be worth it alone but it's also about stopping the bad flavors that can develop in quick fermentations. Wyeast themselves discuss this fact in association with some of their highly flocculant varieties. These in particular need longer primary times with less yeast in suspension to clean up fusals and such.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Revvy]

I also have to agree about the wonderful yeast doing a great job of 'cleaning up the beer'. If this is only about stopping a headache it would be worth it alone but it's also about stopping the bad flavors that can develop in quick fermentations. Wyeast themselves discuss this fact in association with some of their highly flocculant varieties. These in particular need longer primary times with less yeast in suspension to clean up fusals and such.

Glad SOME of us could help.

A couple years back I found an interesting mention of prolonged yeast contact being good fro cleaning up diacetyl in ales. I posted it in the "hold the butter" thread.

I found this article;

"THE ROLE OF DIACETYL IN BEER
By Moritz Kallmeyer"

The Abstract begins...

Diacetyl as a product of fermentation is more characteristic of ales than lagers. Diacetyl is produced early in the fermentation, and then most of it is reabsorbed by the yeast and reduced to flavourless compounds later on. Yeast strains differ markedly in their diacetyl reduction ability. Some ales and a few lagers (such as the famous Pilsner Urquell) contain perceptible amounts of diacetyl, but as a rule modern brewers consider it as a fault. This is because certain bacterial infections and other errors in brewing technique will increase diacetyl levels resulting in unacceptable beer aroma and flavour profile. This parameter thus serves as a quality check. However, it is important to remember that diacetyl flavour is a natural by-product of yeast fermentation, and in some beer styles it is an optional or even required flavour component in low amounts.

From here....


Drayman's Brewery and Distillery

There's two methods of rests listed in the Kallmeyer article...one for ales and warmer beers....interesting what it said for ales.

Maturation of beer flavour requires the presence of yeast as a catalyst. There are many methods of finishing that have the sole objective of prolonging the contact of beer with yeast after primary fermentation is completed. I want to emphasize that a diacetyl rest with most of the yeast lying at the bottom of the tank and not enough in suspension is of no use. Most lager breweries, especially those that use Weinhenstephan 308 or similar “diacetyl producing yeast’s” employ a long diacetyl rest, in order to minimize diacetyl in the finished beer.

 

[OLDBREW]

Revvy,

Do you notice the word used is always yeast. No where does it mention allowing the wort/beer to sit on the trub. Those fatty compounds and decayng yeast are what can produce off flavors This is why you rack off of the trub and let the heathy viable yeast finish cleaning up.

 

[BierMuncher]

...secondary fermenters are going the way of the dodo...

Yeah well..this dodo begs to differ.

Every micro brewery I've visited moves their beer to a bright tank (secondary) to condition and clear faster. Anyone who has to wait 4 weeks before kegging a typical session beer (1035 - 1045) is running a very inefficient brewery. Can you imagine micro (or even macro) breweries tying up there fermenters for a month? Now..if a homebrewer is brewing one or two batches every 6-8 weeks...sure. There's not nearly enough brewing going on to necessitate a more efficient system. Me? I brew too much...serve too much...drink too much :cross: and enjoy too wide a variety of beers year round to let any fermenter sit there longer than it needs.

Dry hop in your primary if you like...but kiss your yeast goodbye for future batches.

Long live the bright tank (secondary) whatever you want to call it.

For what it's worth...I do 2 weeks in the primary...harvest the yeast and rack to a clearing tank for 5 days...rack to a keg and chill for 10.

 

[Netflyer]

In this case I'm not re-using this yeast but point well taken!

Do you think it matters more or less if you bottle? I know there are enough yeast to carbonate the bottle even if you secondary/tertiary, but does it take longer to bottle condition a secondaried as opposed to just a long primaried batch? Or does it all work out even? If ya go 14 days in the primary and secondary for 1 week or go 21 days in the primary, are both 2-4 weeks bottle conditioned or does the secondaried version take longer to condition (possibly due to fewer yeast to start with?)?

 

[jmo88]

Dry hop in your primary if you like...but kiss your yeast goodbye for future batches.

Not if you top crop. No yeast washing, and higher viability. Put the yeast under a bit of boiled and cooled water in a jar and store it in the fridge until next time.

 

[Netflyer]

Not if you top crop. No yeast washing, and higher viability. Put the yeast under a bit of boiled and cooled water in a jar and store it in the fridge until next time.

Can you elaborate on 'Top Cropping' .. thanks!

 

[BierMuncher]

...does the secondaried version take longer to condition (possibly due to fewer yeast to start with?)?

In either case 21 days at 70 degrees should be the "sweetspot" for carbonation. That will vary a bit depending upon the gravity of the beer.

 

[remilard]

For what it's worth...I do 2 weeks in the primary...harvest the yeast and rack to a clearing tank for 5 days...rack to a keg and chill for 10.

I do the same except my clearing tank is a keg and I use gelatin there. Seems to work. My beers would be dangerously good if they got ten times better so I'll stick with antiquated methods.

 

[remilard]

Can you elaborate on 'Top Cropping' .. thanks!

It is removing yeast from the top of the fermenter during high krausen.

You can do this manually, eg spoon it out of a bucket.

Here is a closed method that works well.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/fo...&t=12393&sid=f238d92a24bf2145bd525619c243e7af

 

[BierMuncher]

Can you elaborate on 'Top Cropping' .. thanks!

From Wyeast:

When Yeast Should be Harvested

The timing of cropping will have effects on the quality and density of the slurry. Consistent timing of harvest will help maintain the desired characteristics of the culture.

• Cylindroconical and Dish Bottom Vessels (Bottom Cropping): Yeast should be harvested once the temperature has dropped below 40°F (4°C) and trub has been discharged. This will insure a large yield of clean, homogenous slurry.
• Open Vessels (Top Cropping): Yeast can be harvested once the gravity has dropped below 50% of original gravity. First head will rise approximately 24-36 hours into fermentation. Discard 1st skim (“dirt skim”). A clean, 2nd head will rise which can be harvested with a 2nd skim.

Top cropping at the homebrew level is certainly doable but presents a few challenges/risks.

1. You have to be vigilant in observing your fermentation so you can skim the “dirt” for a cleaner surface. Problem is…you’ll be repeatedly opening your fermenter to peek inside. (Not a good practice)
   
2. Once your skim the dirty krausen you have to wait for a second…clean krausen to harvest. Same issue as above.
   
3. At the homebrew level (five-gallon fermentation), skimming multiple times will cost you more wort than the same practice would at a micro-brewery where they ferment in much larger batches.

 

[remilard]

The upside to the blowoff method in my link above (which is like half of a burton union system) is that you can just place the racking cane below the surface of the krausen and miss the brown stuff (which all ends up on the top). Its pretty easy and very sanitary.