Dry Hop aroma already fading in fermenter

[FelixGER]

Hi,

I'm a bit at a loss here. Just opened a nanobrewery in south-west Germany and I'm trying to brew a dry hopped session Pils. The German Forum was no help so I thought I'd try the American one.

I have made ales only until now with WLP002 and WY1318. Works like a charm, really decent beers! Lot's of tropical and citrus aromas.

My Session Pils attempt was fermented with WLP838. At 1.022 gravity remaining I raised the temperature to 63 f and added the hops (Cascade/Saphir). Waited 30 mins and bunged the pressure rated conical to spund (naturally carbonate). I do the same with my ales which works great. Spunding valve takes care of the right pressure.

After one day I took a sample and it tasted increcible. Very strong cascade and saphir aroma. Almost too much! Like juice.

Two day later, there was maybe 60% left of the aroma. Waited another two days until final gravity (1.010) was reached and cold crashed. After cold crash the aroma was gone. There was a hint of saphir left but the cascade aroma had 100% vanished.

My first thought was, I dry hopped and spunded to early -> Co2 scrub. The spunding valve released quite some excess pessure for the remaining 4 days of fermentation. But on the other hand it always works with ales.

Second thought was, that the yeast floced out and took the hop oils with it. Sure, could be, yeast is generally known to do that but literally 100% of the cascade aroma gone? That was 2 g / l cascade and the initial aroma, after one day, was very strong. Too much, even.

Negative biotransformation? Does WLP838 maybe transform linalool, citranelol etc. in something else that doesn't taste fruity? So could it be a lager thing?

Headspace? I only fill 50% of the fermenter, but same with ales and they come out great and fruity.

I can rule out oxidation. The beer tastes fresh, has no oxidation aroma and is bright yellow. Again, same procedure with ales, no problems.

There was one anomaly. The pH must have been a bit too high (pH probe ceased working on brewday) which resulted in zero hot break. So I had a massive initial protein haze and the samples before cold crashing looked like a NEIPA. After CC the beer was not totally clear but acceptable. Could protein haze that flocs out take all the hop aroma with it?

Do you guys have an idea?

Best
Felix

 

[thehaze]

At this point, you will have to experiment some more. I assume the early dry hopping might have been counter-productive and all aroma was scrubed out.

You could try to dry hop for only 2 days after fermentation is finished, cold crash ( max. 2 days ) and see if that helps. You could also try another yeast strain, with poorer flocculation. You'll get haze, but cold crashing it and lagering it for just a bit, might remove enough to pass as an unfiltered/slighly hazy Hoppy Pilsner. Personally, I have nothing against hazy beer, no matter the style.

I don't know what hopping rates you used. You mention Cascade at 2g / l. That's pretty low. I mean, if you are going to dry hop a beer, you want a bit of oomph and freshen up the hop aroma, otherwise why would you do it? Maybe try to add more hops once fermentation ended?

 

[FelixGER]

Hmm, yeah, maybe it was a combination of different process errors.
Indeed WLP838 flocculates pretty well. But so does WLP002, even more.

What astonishes me is just that ALL the aroma was gone. I mean, what about the kettle additions. There were also cascade additions at knockout and a hopstand. Of course the yeast and CO2 scrub reduce the aroma but literally to zero is what flabbergasts me. And 2 g/l is not hardcore IPA style, but there was plenty of aroma after one day and then, poof, gone. My biggest fear is that this yeast is "incompatible" with C hops, because I love the flavor profile and malty finish of this yeast.

I will get the pH right next time, get a good hot break and clear wort, will dry hop in two stages, Saphir first and then, when there's just enough fermentation left to carb I will add cascade, will use more cascade, and I will cold crash just before kegging. Thanks for your input!

 

[day_trippr]

[...]There was one anomaly. The pH must have been a bit too high (pH probe ceased working on brewday) which resulted in zero hot break. So I had a massive initial protein haze and the samples before cold crashing looked like a NEIPA. After CC the beer was not totally clear but acceptable. Could protein haze that flocs out take all the hop aroma with it?[...]

Right there is where I'd start looking - particularly as it was the "one anomaly".
I read an article last summer about the effect of "too much" protein when brewing neipas stripping much of the hop character right out of the beer...

Cheers!