Double milling grain?

[NoCornOrRice]

Hello. I'm seeing more and more Youtubers, and others talk about double milling their grain with seemingly expensive equipment on hand, so presumably a decent mill too. Is this technique becoming common practice?

I've brewed many, many batches and have not been doing this.
I had a BarleyCrusher for over a decade, and when it finally gave out, I got a 3 roller MaltMuncher: https://www.morebeer.com/products/m...un8HqzVjnPeXyuViDihOxzvxjrOxO-VR_8dhqtvN1KMNT

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

IMHO - Set it up right for the grain your crushing and once should do the job.

 

[Pennine]

I think it matters depending on what equipment you are using. I condition the malt and then double mill. That gets me the best flow in my Braumeister all in one.

 

[NoCornOrRice]

Good point. I've used quite an array of systems. Everything from turkey fryer on propane to basic 3V, then 3V eHERMS. Then others including all in one, which wasn't for me, and now a 2 vessel with a direct fired biab mash tun/bk (40g) and hlt/fermenter (27g). Flow hasn't been an issue for me. Current batch size is 20g.

 

[doug293cz]

Double milling is a hack to improve crush when you aren't able to adjust the mill (usually because it isn't yours) to give you the proper crush for your system. If you own your own mill, you are better off setting the gap to what provides a good crush for your system (as fine as you can go without causing recirc or lautering issues.) Your optimal crush is often different than what works for someone with different equipment than yours.

Brew on

 

[dmtaylor]

I mill all my grains just once. For a while my average brewhouse efficiency was 92%. I opened the gap on my mill slightly to provide extra assurance against a stuck runoff. Now it's in the mid 80s. Adjust your mill properly until one run-through is enough, and such that you only get a stuck runoff very rarely if ever. Note: Wheat has smaller kernels than barley. So if you ever make wheat beers, adjust your mill for wheat, and then leave it there. Done right, your wheat will be nicely crushed and your barley won't be overcrushed. That's like the sweet spot.

 

[NoCornOrRice]

So if you ever make wheat beers, adjust your mill for wheat, and then leave it there.

Yup. That's pretty much what I've done. I am a fan of hefe's

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Double milling is a hack to improve crush when you aren't able to adjust the mill

I double mill mostly because I brew with a lot continental (European) malt. If you brew with North American malt, the grain size is typically smaller and running it through once works fairly well. Continental malt has a larger kernel size and it requires a lot more force to mill it to the proper gap with one pass. In addition, the kernel size is large enough that the mill often won't start if it's not a gear driven mill.

One solution is to use a gear driven mill (which I highly recommend) and a big drill.

https://monsterbrewinghardware.com/...afL7r_AmloonEm0bwr86Vio8RaHGV2K7Ryw98kXM96MZk

Or set the gap larger for the first run and smaller for the next run. Using North American malt is easier still. Running it through twice on the same gap size doesn't make sense to me.

 

[dmtaylor]

I double mill mostly because I brew with a lot continental (European) malt. If you brew with North American malt, the grain size is typically smaller and running it through once works fairly well. Continental malt has a larger kernel size and it requires a lot more force to mill it to the proper gap with one pass. In addition, the kernel size is large enough that the mill often won't start if it's not a gear driven mill.

One solution is to use a gear driven mill (which I highly recommend) and a big drill.

https://monsterbrewinghardware.com/...afL7r_AmloonEm0bwr86Vio8RaHGV2K7Ryw98kXM96MZk

Or set the gap larger for the first run and smaller for the next run. Using North American malt is easier still. Running it through twice on the same gap size doesn't make sense to me.

This makes no sense. It seems like you're saying something along the lines of "continental malt is made out of larger diamonds that bend the steel rollers on their way through". I exaggerate, but you see what I'm saying? Malt kernels are like 100 times softer than steel. If kernels are bypassing the rollers then I question the quality of the mill, not the malt.

I have zero problems whatsoever milling my continental malts. Which I use more than half the time.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

This makes no sense. It seems like you're saying something along the lines of "continental malt is made out of larger diamonds that bend the steel rollers on their way through". I exaggerate, but you see what I'm saying? Malt kernels are like 100 times softer than steel. If kernels are bypassing the rollers then I question the quality of the mill, not the malt.

I have zero problems whatsoever milling my continental malts. Which I use more than half the time.

The ungeared mills have a tendency to fail to start if the gap is set to tight. The grains don't get between the rollers or the force needed to keep both rollers going exceeds the ability of grain to maintain it since it is friction driven. In other words the mill will sometimes start, then the second undriven (friction) roller will stop. The undriven roller often is "loaded up" with milled grain and needs to be cleared. The fix is to increase the gap, thus reducing the force needed to mill or drive the second roller and then running it through a second time with a smaller gap.

Two roll mills have less of a problem with this, but 3 roll mills are actually terrible for this unless the second roller is directly driven by the drive roller. The bottom roller (the third roller) is still friction driven.

I do I know this? Because I own a ungeared 3 roller Monster Mill that almost never starts in the desired gap whenever I mill Weyermann or Crisp Maris Otter. If I run Rahr 2 row or another North American malt, the kernel size is slightly smaller and less force is needed to mill the grain and it works most of the time.

This is why mills are available in a geared configuration, because it is a problem. My advice to anyone who wants a 3 roll mill is to get it geared. I think even a 2 roll mill will benefit from a geared configuration.

That's why I mill twice.

 

[Brockness Monster]

I have an old (2011) Monster Mill MM3, no gearing, and I mill at 0.025". Sometimes the start is a little rocky, but I think that has more to do with the way the hopper is designed rather than the gap. Mostly because that initial gap cannot be adjusted and once it is through the first set of rollers there is enough friction to "pull" it through the second set. If yours is having an issue with this you might want to check the gap on both sides of the roller to make sure it is even. The smallest deviation on one side will cause the roller to bind, ask me how I know.

I would definitely buy a geared one if they had one back then. If I drank more and therefore brewed more, I would probably sell mine and buy a geared MM3. Keep in mind though that the gearing is only on the first two rollers.

Edit: And I am using Belgian and German malts btw

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I have an old (2011) Monster Mill MM3, no gearing, and I mill at 0.025". Sometimes the start is a little rocky, but I think that has more to do with the way the hopper is designed rather than the gap. Mostly because that initial gap cannot be adjusted and once it is through the first set of rollers there is enough friction to "pull" it through the second set. If yours is having an issue with this you might want to check the gap on both sides of the roller to make sure it is even. The smallest deviation on one side will cause the roller to bind, ask me how I know.

I would definitely buy a geared one if they had one back then. If I drank more and therefore brewed more, I would probably sell mine and buy a geared MM3. Keep in mind though that the gearing is only on the first two rollers.

Edit: And I am using Belgian and German malts btw

Thank you for the information. I will look into. It mills very nicely, but running it twice solves another problem of torque. It's not bad with domestic malt, but continental malt is much more plump and I have to hang on tight to the drill when it catches.

I run about the same gap and with wetted malt, the grain is beautifully crushed and the mash flows very nicely. The biggest complaint is getting that thing to start.

I still want a geared mill.

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

Thank you for the information. I will look into. It mills very nicely, but running it twice solves another problem of torque. It's not bad with domestic malt, but continental malt is much more plump and I have to hang on tight to the drill when it catches.

I run about the same gap and with wetted malt, the grain is beautifully crushed and the mash flows very nicely. The biggest complaint is getting that thing to start.

I still want a geared mill.

I have a 3 roller geared monster mill - it's worth every penny IMHO.