Does this look right? - EHERMS / BCS-460

[jcharles00]

I know this is a little goofy.. I'm in a rental house with only 110V. Curcuits are 20A, and fortunately I have ready access to a few of them. BUT I have to split the elements of each kettle between to circuits. (each kettle has 2x 2000W elements) BCS outputs illustrated as a single line for simplicity sake.

Since this is all run via the BCS, I don't need any manual switches or indicator lights. (may add these in the future, but just want to get going with this for now)

I've skipped contactors. I understand the point of them, but I figure that if an SSR dies open on me, temp will go high, the alarm on the BCS-460 will sound and I can just pull the plug.

Does this look workable? am I missing anything vital?

 

[mredge73]

It should work but you will need to make sure that your BCS does not run more than one element per source at the same time.
Install software checks to makes sure HLT1 and BK1 never run at the same time; same for HLT2/BK2.

Alternatively you could eliminate 2 ssrs and 1 gfci and only plug in the 2 elements that you intend on using right now.
You won't have to add a bunch of complication to your software this way and can cut down on your control hardware.
There is no reason that you should ever need to run your BK and HLT at the same time.
It is convenient for cleaning but in this case you can plug in one element from each vessel.

 

[jcharles00]

Yeah, I had the same thought - re: swapping the element plugs, but figured I'd go ahead and switch them all so I can leave everything in place. Same deal with the pumps - It's easy enough just to unplug them rather than have the BCS switch them, but I feel like the whole point of the BCS is to allow myself some small amounts of laziness in this regard. haha.

 

[doug293cz]

You cannot use GFCI outlets where you show them. You cannot split the duplex GFCI outlets between two separate circuits like you can with non-GFCI duplex outlets, and you need to do this for your configuration.

You should replace the outlets that you are going to plug your panel into (source outlets) with GFCI receptacles (you can take them back out if you have to when you move.) Then use ordinary duplex outlets within your control panel. Note that you will have to break the isolation tabs on both the hot and neutral sides of each outlet. If you common the neutrals between your two supply circuits anywhere, you will be plagued with GFCI trips, since the hot and neutral currents from each supply circuit won't balance out perfectly.

If you don't understand the above, ask for clarification. Don't proceed with this build until you thoroughly understand why you have to wire it as I described.

Brew on

 

[jcharles00]

You cannot use GFCI outlets where you show them. You cannot split the duplex GFCI outlets between two separate circuits like you can with non-GFCI duplex outlets, and you need to do this for your configuration.

Not planning to. Those photos are just representative of generic outlets. GFCIs are at the wall.

 

[mredge73]

Yeah, I had the same thought - re: swapping the element plugs, but figured I'd go ahead and switch them all so I can leave everything in place. Same deal with the pumps - It's easy enough just to unplug them rather than have the BCS switch them, but I feel like the whole point of the BCS is to allow myself some small amounts of laziness in this regard. haha.

Using the BCS on brew day can get tricky since it works more like a PLC than a computer. It will allow you to run multiple process at the same time which is a great feature. But it is easy to turn your HLT and BK processes on at the same time unintentionally, especially if you are not familiar with your own program (I wrote mine 3 years ago and haven't looked at it since). I would put these far apart, process 1 and process 8 maybe so you don't fat finger them when running it from a smart phone or tablet. For me I typically unplug my elements when I am not using them that way I don't accidentally hit the wrong button and fire an element in dry kettle.

 

[BrunDog]

Never never never assume the software is going to behave. Even if you use BCS's ladder logic to prevent both HLT and BK elements from being on simultaneously, it may become possible they do. Use double throw relays to switch between these two. You can use another BCS output to handle it (but will need another SSR or transistor circuit to switch it). Never rely on your breaker to prevent an over current situation!

I think the GFI is ok as you are using two discreet elements bet vessel, but maybe Doug sees something I don't.

Also, you really should use contactors. Tie these two an E-stop at a minimum. You just never know that an output won't be on when powering up or when not expected. Plus you can run you automation in a debug mode without actual heating or pumping. I know this is more $ and complexity but I think doing it right for some extra $ is always worth it.

 

[doug293cz]

Never never never assume the software is going to behave. Even if you use BCS's ladder logic to prevent both HLT and BK elements from being on simultaneously, it may become possible they do. Use double throw relays to switch between these two. You can use another BCS output to handle it (but will need another SSR or transistor circuit to switch it). Never rely on your breaker to prevent an over current situation!

I think the GFI is ok as you are using two discreet elements bet vessel, but maybe Doug sees something I don't.

Also, you really should use contactors. Tie these two an E-stop at a minimum. You just never know that an output won't be on when powering up or when not expected. Plus you can run you automation in a debug mode without actual heating or pumping. I know this is more $ and complexity but I think doing it right for some extra $ is always worth it.

I was commenting on the pictured use of GFCI duplex outlets in a place where the two outlets in the pair need to have both the hot and neutral isolated from each other. You cannot isolate the outlets in a GFCI duplex pair. OP responded that they would actually be using non-GFCI duplex outlets, and only used the GFCI outlet pics for convenience. I'd like to see the drawing redone, just to prevent someone else from mistakenly copying the design as presented.

Brew on

 

[BrunDog]

Ohhhhh! I never zoomed in close enough to see those! Na, couldn't do that.

 

[SplitHops]

I know this is a little goofy.. I'm in a rental house with only 110V. Curcuits are 20A, and fortunately I have ready access to a few of them. BUT I have to split the elements of each kettle between to circuits. (each kettle has 2x 2000W elements) BCS outputs illustrated as a single line for simplicity sake.

Since this is all run via the BCS, I don't need any manual switches or indicator lights. (may add these in the future, but just want to get going with this for now)

I've skipped contactors. I understand the point of them, but I figure that if an SSR dies open on me, temp will go high, the alarm on the BCS-460 will sound and I can just pull the plug.

Does this look workable? am I missing anything vital?

I agree with Mredge73 make sure you are using a three way switch to select the element you want to run. I would also make sure to have a relay on there so when you turn the system on, if anything is left in the on position it will not overload the circuits, this is usually after a major shut down or emergency shut off.