Does any of it really matter?

[Quan]

I like it. Seems brewing is more of an art form pursued with passion. Therefore there really are no rules other than the basic ones like cleanliness. I like brewing even more and i haven't tasted anything yet. But because i am so new to it, just the basics have me stressed out. But i hope to relax like you guys and gals some day once i get better and more knowledgeable, and not see brewing as a financial investment i need a good return on, but a fun hobby where one can express one's creativity.

Hey, it doesn't seem like it is bothering you, but if it is, don't let any of these guys get you down. Your question was earnest and you just inferred a bit of assumption that pressed some people's buttons. You now have some light shed on the subject and soon after you drink your first brew, you will start to understand all the little different techniques that matter.

OR... you will drink it, get a nice buzz, and continue to make it the same way. People say "if you're in it to make cheap beer, you're in the wrong hobby," well, who is to say that your reasons for doing something with your own time is right or wrong?

My bet is for the former, and you will soon be sucked into this HABIT (not hobby ) and your wallet will start getting lighter very soon. Just a heads up.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

People say "if you're in it to make cheap beer, you're in the wrong hobby," well, who is to say that your reasons for doing something with your own time is right or wrong?

You're absolutely right. You should brew for whatever reason you want, but to me just doing it to make cheap beer doesn't seem right. Brewing is an art form and should be something you experiment and get creative with.

Of course, I'm sure there are those people out there that find one recipe they like and repeatedly brew that beer over and over until the end of time. If that is what makes them happy, then more power to them. It would bore me to tears though.

 

[Special Hops]

Brewing is a lot like backing a cake.

You can buy them pre-made at the store. And some very good ones at the right stores or bakery.

You can make your own from a cake mix.

Or you can make your own from scratch.

but there are some many different recipes and techniques. A lot of people do it different ways.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

THWAP!

That was the sound of my hand hitting my face.

I should delete this post as it adds nothing to the forum. I won't though, because the OP adds nothing to it either.

THWAP!

If I were making soap, I would make it the way I want it. THWAP! I would take the best advice I could glean from experienced soap makers who make soap the way THEY want it, and adjust their methods to suit my own methods and preferences.

THWAP! This thread is hurting my face.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

For heaven's sake, quit calling me a HE!

OK, who pissed him off?

 

[jgln]

I do it for the fun and to be creative, that is about it.

 

[Yooper]

OK, who pissed him off?

If you didn't make me laugh so hard, I'd kick you right in the butt with my roll of duct tape.

 

[Quan]

OK, who pissed him off?

HAHA

I damn near spit my coffee all over my computer screen upon reading that. Hrm... maybe I should get back to work.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

OP - some people equate "never had a problem" with "making the best beer I possibly can". And as mentioned above regarding WHY one makes beer, that's fine for them.

There is a law of diminishing returns at some point. Where you go through a TON of extra effort just to improve the beer 1%. Some people like doing that and again, that's cool. Some people like to spend as much time building brew equipment as they do brewing. Works for them, who is to criticise? This is all for personal enjoyment and whatever gets you there is good imo.

Also, there is less to screw up when using all-extract. Some people like that.

Oh, and Prego is teh suck (waayyyyy too sweet). Ragu is much better (savory, like sghetti sauce is s'pose to be. Ya know, 'cause that's how my mom made it).

 

[glockentalk]

I can tell you that I have avoided associating with local homebrewers partly because I don't want to be told what to do. If I have a failure, I want it to be mine. I like the online community because nobody's in my face telling me what to do. The upshot is that I'm working toward beer that is mine and that satisfies me. I'm grateful for the tips I've received, but that doesn't mean that I'm a disciple of any other brewer. I guess it comes down to a quest for originality, an activity where I can take what is offered and process it to produce something that is uniquely my own.

 

[Homercidal]

Sometimes it seems there are contradictions between brewers, but actually it is rare. I do find that there are a variety of different techniques that people use, and sometimes people defend their method because they find it works for them. Go with what works!

However, there are many things that are "proven" to be beneficial to good beer. Things like:

Sanitation
Fermentation temps
Avoiding O2 to a large amount
using fresh ingredients
Using starsan (ok, you can argue that one, but you will be wrong!)

Beyond that, it's just how expensive, complicated, or involved you want to get. Some people spend more money to use other equipment or processes because they find it a) improves their beer, or b) makes brewing more enjoyable for them.

It's very easy to make good beer. It's still pretty easy to make great beer. Knowledge and practice will help you make award-winning beer. And the difference between the three is very small.

 

[Babylon]

For heaven's sake, quit calling me a HE!

well, you do have a picture of an old man as your avatar. And a gender neutral handle (unless a Yooper is a feminine term I am unfamliar with)

 

[Babylon]

I know part of why I got into home brewing was because I wanted cheap beer. Not cheap as in Natural light, cheap as in cheaper than Samuel Adams, cheaper than my local microbrews. And once I have made a few batches to make up for the cost of equipment even extract brewing is a lot cheaper than buying a local microbrew.

Now is it going to be as good? Well, not if I don't take care to do things well, but just because getting a beer I enjoy for a lot less money than I'd be spending at the store is more important to me than perfectly fine tuning the perfect IPA, that doesn't make me any less a dedicated homebrewer than any of you. Just a different kind.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I seriously AM the female Red Green. But my beard has far less gray!

Now, onto your previously scheduled thread...............................

Useless without pictures to prove it.

 

[elkdog]

I must have missed the part where OP was being unreasonable. He sincerely asked a question and respected the answers he got- techniques and ingredients matter. He even indicated that he can see himself really getting into the hobby. The lectures about the sins of hooch-making seem misplaced.

Part of the reason I brew is because it's fairly affordable. If brewing my own beer cost twice as much as buying it, I wouldn't do it, because I don't have a whole ton of disposable income. I read the OP as being cost-conscious and simply wanting to know if some of the stuff people sell is snake oil. There's no reason to assume he's brewing hooch. If the guy is here reading and asking what he needs to do to make good beer, and simply asked if some of the stuff people do is complication for complication's sake, I can't knock that.

 

[wildwest450]

From what I gather from all my reading and discussing is that all the debate on yeast types, fermenting temperatures, grain types, equipment gadgets, techniques and methodologies don't really amount to much improvement over just-add-water-and-yeast extract kits. Other than for the fun of it, why do people go thru all the work, trouble and expense for their beer, if its all pretty much the same anyway? Is it pretty much the same? and be fair

Before you read the next paragraph, know that this is not a bashing, just an observation based on reading thousands of post's on this forum.


Honestly, there are two types of brewers. Those who are content to experiment without knowledge (not a bad thing), ferment at any temp with a less than optimal amount of yeast, and who's favorite saying is rdwhahb, regardless of what the situation is.


Then there the process driven maniacs, of which I am one. I suppose it matches my unstoppable urge to do everything to perfection at all costs.
All water measurements are to the ounce, mash temps are a failure if they aren't within one degree, abundant yeast is always used, and fermentation temps are monitored 24/7. Maybe there's a happy medium in there somewhere, but it's a hobby, so do what makes you happy.

 

[Quan]

I must have missed the part where OP was being unreasonable...The lectures about the sins of hooch-making seem misplaced....There's no reason to assume he's brewing hooch.

I believe I was the only one to reference hooch making. And that was intended to be, at least in my mind, a fun story. Thus the "confused" smiley. In fact, the OP thanked me for my insight from my first post and if you read my other posts within this thread, they are defending him and supporting his right to enjoy the hobby as he pleases.

Just thought I'd squash that hooch making spark before it spread to flame.

 

[elkdog]

Lest I get too cranky, let me add on to what wildwest450 said. You can make beer for very little money and with very little effort. A bit more money for better ingredients, and a bit more effort on fermentation temp and pitching rate, and you'll see the gap between your homebrew and a microbrew close quickly.

Extract + Steeping grains will make a lot of beers as well as all-grain will; people win awards with extract beers. The extra equipment and effort of AG brewing lets you use a wider variety of grains (like Vienna Malt, which I love, and Maris Otter, which is tough to find as an extract), and to exercise control over the mouthfeel of the beer.

Boiling in a 2-3G pot on your stove is fine, but doing a full boil reduces carmelization (your light beers will be lighter) and increases hop utilization.

I think I operate in wildwest450's happy medium; I'm an AG brewer, am constantly tweaking my setup (cooler MLT and a turkey fryer) and procedures to dial in predictability and quality, but I like to keep it simple, to build equipment when possible, and to brew beers solely for my own enjoyment. I could enter competitions and get more feedback, but I brew to escape the stress of my academic career, which involves enough competition, and I'm not great at competing without getting a little too into it anyway. So, that's how I negotiate brewing as a hobby; I insist on being good at it, but do what I personally need to do to keep it fun. Other people get into the gear and fabrication more than I do, and love competitions. Like wildwest 450 said, it's a hobby. I make damn good beer, and it's getting better because I hang out here and learn from a pretty amazing pool of knowledge and practice.

 

[elkdog]

I believe I was the only one to reference hooch making. And that was intended to be, at least in my mind, a fun story. Thus the "confused" smiley. In fact, the OP thanked me for my insight from my first post and if you read my other posts within this thread, they are defending him and supporting his right to enjoy the hobby as he pleases.

Just thought I'd squash that hooch making spark before it spread to flame.

I hadn't meant to call you out, much less to single you out, and was actually thinking of other hooch threads when I wrote that. Your posts here were the sort that made me like this place, so let me apologize for the lazy writing, and give a +1 to the stuff you wrote. My bad.

 

[osagedr]

I must have missed the part where OP was being unreasonable. He sincerely asked a question ...

Horsefeathers. It was a stir-the-pot post, borderline troll IMO, which is why a bunch of otherwise perfectly reasonable posters reacted with hostility.

Everyone seems to know the best technique, everyone's beer is better than everyone else's beer, there are volumes of tips and tricks to get better tasting beer and lots of them contradict each other...Other than for the fun of it, why do people go thru all the work, trouble and expense for their beer, if its all pretty much the same anyway?

Yeah. Real innocent way to introduce oneself to the forum.

 

[Quan]

I hadn't meant to call you out, much less to single you out, and was actually thinking of other hooch threads when I wrote that. Your posts here were the sort that made me like this place, so let me apologize for the lazy writing, and give a +1 to the stuff you wrote. My bad.

Elkdog, I did not really feel like you were singling me out or anything, I just wanted to squash a potential firestarter that I could've started with my hooch story. I appreciate the kind words, though. Cheers, bud!

 

[Dr_Gordon_Freeman]

Really? IMHO you need to find an experienced brewer in your neighborhood so you can test yours vs. hers (that's for you Yoop) when yours has come to fruition. Then you can come back to us to maybe revise that statement.

That's not a fair comparison. It would be fair if the expert brewer used an expert recipe in both complicated and simple brewing methods. I'll bet the result is very similar.

No doubt plenty of extract recipes have won medals over all-grain brews made on super complex brewing equipment.

 

[BrewBrain]

Geez, we get one cookie monster and now nobody can catch a break? First post does not a poster make. I agree OP's first post COULD be taken the wrong way if no latitude is given for expressionless words written on a screen, but s/he recovered nicely in subsequent posts.

The Trash Heap has spoken.

 

[Edcculus]

I came a little late, but thought I'd add my 2 cents in response to the OP. Brewing is more like cooking. Canned extract kits = Chef Boyardee. Good in their own right, and if thats all you want to do, then hey, more power to you. As you start to learn more in the realm of food, you find out that there are a lot more options out there. Instead of opening a can and eating what The Chef put in there, you can choose your own noodles, ingredients in a sauce and much more. As we grow as brewers, and tasters, we find there is a whole world of yeast (which can make a huge difference in a beer), malts, and even water.

 

[Gator1]

Like all hobbies, you learn as you go. There is a ton of info on this forum and other places. I’m relatively new to the hobby and have learned a lot by just reading the post on this forum. I’m a skeptic by nature so I research both sides of a story before I make decisions. One thing that you can take to the bank is getting good quality yeast (started) and consistent fermenting temperatures. I’m only doing Ales at this point and my basement stays at 65 to 67 degree’s year round. Seems to work pretty good but can’t wait to experiment with lower temps. I have had real good results by simply moving away from the dry yeast and getting my yeast started before pitching. I can assure you, it wasn’t just the same after I did that. It was a 10 fold increase for the better. Just recently converted a freezer to a soda keg system and can’t wait to convert another unit to a fermenter so I can try lower temperature fermentation. I’m breaking the bank because of this hobby and having a great time. In fact, I have about 200 pounds of aluminum to take to the scrap yard this weekend and I’m using the cash to buy another keg, manifold, and a couple through the door fittings for the upright I converted. I’m really starting to hate opening the door to pour a beer with the picnic tap and really want to have two flavors of beer at any given time. Might even go to three kegs, I have room for expansion.

 

[bctdi]

To the OP if you like good beer and creativity ... You need to do this.... You will be hooked!