DME vs. LME

[rzeigler]

Im getting ready to start my 4th batch and started wondering which is better for flavor and color consistancy. Im going to try a miller light clone next (swmbo might drink that) and i want to keep it as light in color as possible. Was hoping you guys could give me some advice on which will give me the best results. Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[jsweet]

Pros vs. cons are listed here. Short summary: Doesn't matter a whole lot in terms of flavor and color consistency, which is what you asked about. It's mostly personal preference.

I just brewed my sixth batch, so I am still figuring out my own personal style... but what I seem to be converging on is this: LME if I plan ahead and can buy it in the right increments, but I always have pale DME on hand (because of its versatility and long shelf life) for occasions when I need it, e.g. like if I find I don't have enough LME, if I decide to change or scale the recipe at the last minute, etc.

The one thing that is not mentioned in the pros and cons that I would really emphasize is that if you are using LME, be absolutely certain to turn off the heat on your brewpot (and take it off the burner if it's electric) and stir constantly when pouring it in. On my 2nd batch I failed to do this, and my wife and I got quite a panic when we saw little black strips bubbling up into the wort. The beer turned out fine, but it was kinda freaky before we figured out what it was, and at least in theory it may have slightly darkened the color and added some unintented caramel-y notes (it was a pale ale, so neither of those things would have really been a problem anyway)

Edit: Oh, and one more thing... After having gotten LME from Austin Homebrew, as opposed to mah LHBS, I don't think I'll be buying LME from the latter anymore. I don't think it's particularly less-than-fresh, and I've brewed some fine beers with it, but there was just a little extra "something" in the aroma of the stuff from AHS. If you are buying your ingredients from your LHBS and you aren't 100% sure how fresh their stuff is, you might want to go with DME, especially for a Miller Light clone where any deviation in color or flavor is going to be super-noticeable.

 

[ArcaneXor]

If you are buying your ingredients from your LHBS and you aren't 100% sure how fresh their stuff is, you might want to go with DME, especially for a Miller Light clone where any deviation in color or flavor is going to be super-noticeable.

Or you could just ask how old the extract is. Anyone who does ordering, accepts shipments or has access to the wholesaler invoices should be able to tell you this. At the small shop I work, the extra light/Pilsner and light/golden extracts get ordered at least once a month.

 

[lostboysbrew]

i can't get past that you wanna make a miller light clone, lol.......

I have heard if you get an LME that is prehopped, boil it for 15 min and ferment it, it gets close to those commerical "beers".

Either way though, it is going to be darker than what you will want, extract is tough.

 

[jsweet]

Or you could just ask how old the extract is. Anyone who does ordering, accepts shipments or has access to the wholesaler invoices should be able to tell you this. At the small shop I work, the extra light/Pilsner and light/golden extracts get ordered at least once a month.

Problem with that is, I've come to the conclusion the folks at my LHBS are about 50% idiots, and I still haven't figured out who the idiots are and who aren't. I thought it was just me, until I talked with another HBT commenter who lives in the same town, and he was pretty down on this LHBS too and said he has switched to mostly mail order, or a different LHBS that is about 20 min away from me if he is in a hurry.

It's a shame, too, because the close one is literally less than 5 minutes from my house. It's still convenient for some stuff (e.g. I picked up some PBW and some extra bungs and airlocks the other day -- not like they can screw that up...) but a) I am very dubious about the knowledgability of the staff, b) I suspect their turnover on LME is very uneven, c) their whole hops are not terrible, but they aren't half as fresh as the ones I get from AHS, and d) they are constantly out of stock of really basic stuff at random times...

Once I went there to buy 9 lbs. of extra-light DME, and ended up buying the last two 3lb. bags they had and subbing light DME for the rest. How hard is it to stay well stocked on DME?! And as far as knowledgability of the staff, you should have seen the comedy ensue when I tried to buy a blowoff hose there... I said, "Hey, I need a blowoff hose and I'm not seeing the right size of plastic tubing." They didn't know what I was talking about. "Are you talking about this?" (point to an auto-siphon) "No. Just a wide hose, that is cut to length and can fit in the top of a carboy." "You mean a bung?" "Um, NO. Look, nevermind, I'll just go to Home Depot." Yeesh...

 

[unionrdr]

For a Miller lite clone,I was thinking pilsen light LME with plain extra light DME. That should be close.

 

[ArcaneXor]

That sucks. I would definitely let the owner know about your experiences. Based on his/her response, you usually get a pretty good idea of how serious s/he is about the business. The owners don't always work in the shops (unless it's a large store, they don't really make enough money for the homebrew shop to be their sole source of income) and may not know how bad the situation is unless customers tell them.

 

[ArcaneXor]

For a Miller lite clone,I was thinking pilsen light LME with plain extra light DME. That should be close.

Need to add lots of flaked corn as well, which requires a mini-mash or addition of amylase.

 

[unionrdr]

Haha,yeah. If you really wanna nail down...

 

[ArcaneXor]

Haha,yeah. If you really wanna nail down...

And, of course, the most challenging part is that it is TRIPLE HOPPED!

 

[jsweet]

(unless it's a large store, they don't really make enough money for the homebrew shop to be their sole source of income)

This. Their main business is selling craft and import beers. Like, a lot of them. It's pretty awesome for the most part (although there are some issues with how they manage that too, but not as serious). I'd still go there to get hard-to-find brews even if I never picked up another piece of homebrewing supplies from them. In fact, I shopped there for years, always passing by the homebrew section with curiosity, before I ever decided to take the plunge.

The other shop that is supposed to be better is much more homebrew-oriented... they are a hydroponics and homebrew shop, go figure, hahaha... but since it's a much bigger part of their business, it makes sense they would be better stocked, etc.

 

[unionrdr]

And, of course, the most challenging part is that it is TRIPLE HOPPED!

Yeah,they waved a handful of hops over the BK three times,very ceremoniously.

 

[rzeigler]

The miller light clone isnt for me. SWMBO has yet to drink any of my beer. The last batch, an amber ale, she told me tasted like vomit. Ive been trying to get her past just tasting my brews but so far no luck. Every weekend im happily drinking my brew and shes here drinking michelob light. I know thats more for me but im tired of seeing the stuff in my fridge. Saw a recipe for a miller light clone and thought that might be the one that brings her over to my side. Thats why i asked which was better, i want this to taste like the best miller light she ever had. Ill even brew it for her regularly if it gets that other junk out of my fridge.
Thanks for taking the time to answer me guys. Wish me luck.

 

[rzeigler]

Need to add lots of flaked corn as well, which requires a mini-mash or addition of amylase.

The recipe i have calls for 40% rice extract syrup and the rest extra light dme. Would you use the rice or replace it with flaked corn?

 

[Yooper]

The recipe i have calls for 40% rice extract syrup and the rest extra light dme. Would you use the rice or replace it with flaked corn?

The rice syrup is fine! No need to replace that. I'd use extra-light DME if you can find it but light DME will work as well.

I'd also consider adding the bulk of the DME at flame out, to keep the color light and not have a "syrupy" wort.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Rice syrup will give you Bud Light. Miller uses corn (I think).

 

[rzeigler]

The rice syrup is fine! No need to replace that. I'd use extra-light DME if you can find it but light DME will work as well.

I'd also consider adding the bulk of the DME at flame out, to keep the color light and not have a "syrupy" wort.

Thanks for the advice. Wasnt sure about doing a late extract addition with dme. Have been doingvit with lme guess it works the same. Thanks again and happy brewing.

 

[rzeigler]

Thought bud light used corn, maybe im wrong. The recipe is from papazians book. Like i said its for the wife but if im going to brew it i want it to be a good beer. Thanks for all the help guys. What exactly is amylase for anyway?

 

[jsweet]

Unless you are going to do a partial- or all-grain recipe, you can't really use flaked corn. Dunno if you've been getting into grain brewing yet, I'm guessing no since you say you are on your 4th batch, but some people start into it that soon. (I'm just brewed my 6th, and the main thing holding me back from AG brewing is the time commitment... with two sons under three years old, it's hard to even find the ~3 hours necessary for setup, brew, and cleanup on an all-extract recipe!) (Edit: Unless you do the amylase thing I guess... for some reason I had this vague impression that doing that was either a big pain in the butt, or else undesirable for some other reason, but now I'm wracking my brain and I can't for the life of me figure out why I thought that. I guess I must just have imagined it/mixed it up with something else in the course of the last couple months of information overload )

I would think rice extract syrup would get you the light body you are going for. TBH you're never going to brew anything quite like a BMC beer using extract -- it actually turns out the big breweries go to great lengths to make their crap beer! Getting something to ferment to ~5% ABV and still have absolutely no flavor to speak of is no mean feat.

I don't blame yah one bit for brewing a beer to please the wife. I'm lucky, in that all that means for me is brewing, say, a Belgian Wit or a saison style when I'd rather be brewing a super-hoppy IPA. Can't complain about that!

I've got a summer lemon wheat beer fermenting right now that I am hoping will be an accessible and very thirst quenching session beer. If it turns out any good, I'll share the recipe.

 

[ArcaneXor]

What exactly is amylase for anyway?

Amylase is an enzyme (actually, a group of enzymes) that convert starches to sugar. All-grain brewers use the enzymes in base malts to achieve this. But if you use something like corn without a base malt, you can add amylase in powdered form, which is available from any decent homebrew store. Amylase works best at about 150-155 deg F, and denatures above 168 deg F.

 

[rzeigler]

Unless you are going to do a partial- or all-grain recipe, you can't really use flaked corn. Dunno if you've been getting into grain brewing yet, I'm guessing no since you say you are on your 4th batch, but some people start into it that soon. (I'm just brewed my 6th, and the main thing holding me back from AG brewing is the time commitment... with two sons under three years old, it's hard to even find the ~3 hours necessary for setup, brew, and cleanup on an all-extract recipe!) (Edit: Unless you do the amylase thing I guess... for some reason I had this vague impression that doing that was either a big pain in the butt, or else undesirable for some other reason, but now I'm wracking my brain and I can't for the life of me figure out why I thought that. I guess I must just have imagined it/mixed it up with something else in the course of the last couple months of information overload )

I would think rice extract syrup would get you the light body you are going for. TBH you're never going to brew anything quite like a BMC beer using extract -- it actually turns out the big breweries go to great lengths to make their crap beer! Getting something to ferment to ~5% ABV and still have absolutely no flavor to speak of is no mean feat.

I don't blame yah one bit for brewing a beer to please the wife. I'm lucky, in that all that means for me is brewing, say, a Belgian Wit or a saison style when I'd rather be brewing a super-hoppy IPA. Can't complain about that!

I've got a summer lemon wheat beer fermenting right now that I am hoping will be an accessible and very thirst quenching session beer. If it turns out any good, I'll share the recipe.

The only grains ive used so far was caramel malt for the pale ale i have fermenting right now. Know what you mean about having time. I have a 4 yr old son and a 9 month old little girl. Having 3 hrs to brew is hard to find sometimes. I would like to try ag but dont feel like i know enough yet, plus id need more equipment and the wife isnt going for that right now. If the lemon wheat turns out good would appreciate the recipe. I thought about trying a banana-strawberry wheat for my first from scratch recipe. If i do ill be sure to share it. Thanks and happy brewing.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

And, of course, the most challenging part is that it is TRIPLE HOPPED!

Nice!:rockin:

 

[unionrdr]

I think I might've created a monster?! My wife is brewing now,& my older son starts asking questions about a strawberry wheat ale. Then I bounce back with "how bout one of those yeasts that produce banana flavors,& have a strawberry banana bier"? He's thinking about it after we get these two brews bottled. What in God's name have I done!!!?

 

[Joe_K]

Here's a light beer I've been making if you want to try it. It's real easy and has no flavor. All my friends love it...

-3 gallon boil, 45 minutes
-3 lbs Muntons extra light dry malt extract (early addition)
-45 min 1 oz Cascade Pellets
-15 min Whirlfloc tablet
-15 min 1 lb dry rice solids
-Safale US-05
-primary 7 days, rack to secondary and add Amylase Enzyme
-secondary around 3 weeks 60-65 degrees

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Here's a light beer I've been making if you want to try it. It's real easy and has no flavor. All my friends love it...

-3 gallon boil, 45 minutes
-3 lbs Muntons extra light dry malt extract (early addition)
-45 min 1 oz Cascade Pellets
-15 min Whirlfloc tablet
-15 min 1 lb dry rice solids
-Safale US-05
-primary 7 days, rack to secondary and add Amylase Enzyme
-secondary around 3 weeks 60-65 degrees

Sounds stellar!!!