Discussion about lager fermentation temps and time

[Sematary]

So, I had read online (probably even somewhere on these forums) that I should pitch the yeast at 70 degrees then start cooling it down 1 degree per hour after active fermentation began. Currently it is at 66 degrees (sitting in a Mr. beer - though it wasn't a Mr. Beer recipe - I just needed that size container. So, I'm trying to bring the temp down slowly to around 55. Here's where the questions (for me) begin.
Most stuff I read said that after primary fermentation (3 - 4 weeks) then it should be in a temperature of around 35 degrees for another month of more.

My local brew supply store owner is telling me that as an ex brewer, he says it would be fine to leave it at 55 degrees until bottling day since dropping it to 35 will also drop out most of the yeast and when I go to condition I might not get the same bang for my buck as if I had left it at the higher temperature.

Sooooo - what are thoughts on this. Does that seem reasonable and if I'm going to leave it in the Mr. beer container for it's full fermenting time, how long should I leave it before bottling? And should I put it in my fridge after 3 or 4 weeks to drop the temp down into the 30's for upwards of 6 weeks as I've read? If I do, how do I get the proper carbonation that I'm looking for? I know, lots of questions. Thanks for any input in advance.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Your going to get different opinions on temp adjustment for lagers. There are two different ways people make lagers. Traditional and "fast".Whichever way they do it they'll swear by it.

Just a heads up. Lagers are much less forgiving than ales. Most will agree Lagers are a harder beer to get right. If your just starting out I would recommend getting a few Ales you might like under your belt before jumping to lagers so you don't get discouraged.

 

[Sematary]

Your going to get different opinions on temp adjustment for lagers. There are two different ways people make lagers. Traditional and "fast".Whichever way they do it they'll swear by it.

Just a heads up. Lagers are much less forgiving than ales. Most will agree Lagers are a harder beer to get right. If your just starting out I would recommend getting a few Ales you might like under your belt before jumping to lagers so you don't get discouraged.

I don't get discouraged. I get mad. lol
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to learn is to fail or succeed but going the easy route is never my strong suit and it's too late anyway - it's already going. lol

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Well in that case let it ferment till about 80%,usually around 5 days. Raise to 70 for a diacetyl rest. Let it sit there for 3 days. Drop to as cold as you can without freezing (33 deg) and let it sit for a month.

How are you controlling and maintaining temps?

 

[Sematary]

Well in that case let it ferment till about 80%,usually around 5 days. Raise to 70 for a diacetyl rest. Let it sit there for 3 days. Drop to as cold as you can without freezing (33 deg) and let it sit for a month.

How are you controlling and maintaining temps?

i'm using a water bath with ice as necessary or not to regulate temps

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

i'm using a water bath with ice as necessary or not to regulate temps

Get ready to get mad...and to " learn" you need temp control...especially with a lager

 

[Sematary]

afterwards it will go into the fridge

 

[Sematary]

i've actually managed to get a decent handle on doing it this way. its not ideal but until i find a small fridge, its what i've got

 

[helibrewer]

Personally, I would not start lagers at 70F, I start them 2-4 degrees above my target fermentation temperature. I take gravity readings every day and plot them. 2 Plato above my target FG I start raising the temp to 66F for a 2-3 day diacetyl rest. Then I crash, adjust my carbonation and keg. The lagering time occurs in the keg (6-8 weeks).

 

[Sematary]

Personally, I would not start lagers at 70F, I start them 2-4 degrees above my target fermentation temperature. I take gravity readings every day and plot them. 2 Plato above my target FG I start raising the temp to 66F for a 2-3 day diacetyl rest. Then I crash, adjust my carbonation and keg. The lagering time occurs in the keg (6-8 weeks).

I don't keg, so these will be getting bottled

 

[helibrewer]

I don't keg, so these will be getting bottled

No problem, you have an advantage in that your Mr. Beer will fit in the fridge. Ideally you would want to get it off the yeast cake, but if you can't you will still be OK.

 

[Sematary]

No problem, you have an advantage in that your Mr. Beer will fit in the fridge. Ideally you would want to get it off the yeast cake, but if you can't you will still be OK.

That was one of the reasons I went with the Mr. Beer keg, actually probably the main reason. I know that I have a shelf that I can put it on. "Technically" after it's initial fermentation, could drain it into a sterilized container, wash it out and resterilize it and put the beer back into it then refrigerate. Why is it "ideal" to get it off the yeast cake? And what are the downsides to leaving it in the Mr. Beer keg that way as opposed to doing what I just suggested?

 

[Sadu]

There is no reason to start at 70 and drop slowly to 50. If you can chill all the way to 50 and ferment there this is preferred. Often after a long brewday I don't feel like chilling all the way and will pitch/aerate at 70 then put the brew in a temp controlled fridge to bring it to 50 within a few hours. This is fine but you don't want it fermenting warm any longer than necessary.
After about 5 days, just as krauesen starts to drop I like to bring the beer to 65ish for a diacetyl rest. 2 days is the recommended amount, I'll normally give it a week then crash cool/lager. If you aren't kegging then you can either lager the beer in primary or secondary then bottle condition it. Or you can bottle condition then lager in the bottle. With the former you don't need to add fresh yeast unless you are lagering for 6 months or so but be aware that bottle carbonation can take longer, sometimes 5 weeks instead of the normal 3.

 

[Sadu]

"Technically" after it's initial fermentation, could drain it into a sterilized container, wash it out and resterilize it and put the beer back into it then refrigerate. Why is it "ideal" to get it off the yeast cake? And what are the downsides to leaving it in the Mr. Beer keg that way as opposed to doing what I just suggested?

There is no reason to do this.
Your main concern here is oxidation so if you are lagering in the ferment or for any length of time you want to transfer to a glass secondary with minimal headspace. If you don't have one of those then just crash cool it in the Mr beer for a week then bottle it, let it carbonate then lager in the bottles. Bottles are far better protected against oxygen than a plastic fermentor with large headspace.

 

[Sematary]

There is no reason to do this.
Your main concern here is oxidation so if you are lagering in the ferment or for any length of time you want to transfer to a glass secondary with minimal headspace. If you don't have one of those then just crash cool it in the Mr beer for a week then bottle it, let it carbonate then lager in the bottles. Bottles are far better protected against oxygen than a plastic fermentor with large headspace.

That makes sense. I appreciate all the tips and advice. We'll see how this one comes out!!!

:rockin: