Discuss: Warranty Periods, Good Faith Ethics, Statutes of Limitations.

[Bobby_M]

Looking for honest feedback here. As a business owner, I deal with my share of customer service inqueries and I don't mind testing my demeanor here among my peers and peoples.. To my delight, the vast majority of the experiences are positive. We are often praised for going above and beyond our very industry standard policies. We make mistakes like everyone else of course. I'm not patting myself on the back, just setting up the context. Anyway...

Customer emailed that they received a leaky valve from me. It's brand new, never used, never taken apart.

I'm in the middle of writing back saying "of course we'll replace it, we have a one year warranty" when I decided to just quickly find the order to see when it was purchased. I couldn't find it in our shipping system's dashboard, but that only goes back 6 months. I figured I'd go all the way into the ordering system because it's not time filtered. I see that the same customer placed a few orders in recent months/years but couldn't find the valve order. Eventually I found it. The customer bought it in November of 2016. That means the warranty against MFG defects ran out Nov 2017. If you do the math, it's 3+ years out of warranty. I refused the warranty replacement.

I get it, it doesn't hurt to ask right? On the other hand, the customer went full nuclear. This is one of those cases of principal. If it had been a few months out of warranty, I'd probably bend. I've done it plenty of times especially for repeat customers. I think in this case, I was even a little insulted that someone would berate me for refusing to full warranty replace a 4.4 year old item. I don't know, maybe I'm out of touch but I think it's on the customer to discover problems with purchases within the warranty period. Imagine buying a new car with a 3 year/36K warranty and trying to claim that the engine won't start 12 years later. Yeah but it has zero miles on it.

I'm ranting now... what say you?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'd say that customer is completely unreasonable. If it was never used I get asking, but I'd never expect someone to honor a 400% expired warranty, let alone "go nuclear" if they refuse.

Presuming that said valve has gaskets/seats that've dry rotted out, the most I'd do if I were you (assuming it's inexpensive) is send em those parts and let them deal with it. Even then that's being super charitable on your part.

 

[Tom R]

OK for them to ask (although as a small business owner, I wouldn't have), not OK for them to get angry when told "No".

 

[ATLBeer]

Curious, was this an email exchange or on the phone?

Email stinks for this type of conversation.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm not doxing anyone here.. I'm just being transparent. This is the email exchange starting from first report:


I have yet to use this 3 way ball valve. For all intent and purposes this is a brand new piece.
This valve has failed to shut off the flow to the heat heat ex. That is to say it’s not functioning properly.
Please see video attached. I hope we can come to a solution.

-XXXXX

(I didn't respond over the weekend and got this email)

I would hope you all would be professional enough to make this situation right and not just ignore my messages.
Since valve cost over 30$ I have no choice but to continue and try and contact you.
If you choose to ignore me, I’ll have to proceed with other avenues action.
-XXXXX


***********************************************************

XXXXX, I was unable to find the original transaction but then I found it in the archived database because this was ordered in November of 2016. Our standard warranty protects you from manufacturing defects for 1 year from date of sale so this claim is over 3 years too late.

I've since switched suppliers of these valves twice since 2016 so I have no recourse myself. We strive to be more than fair with our customers, often erring on the side of taking losses beyond our official policies but I don't know any vendor that would honor a warranty over 4 times older than the initial period.

-Bobby

************************************************
Alright.
Well, nice doing business with you while it lasted.
Say what you want to justify not backing your materials sold, but you vended a faulty product, 2016 or not, and you know it.
This was 100% untouched/used until a few days prior to the video sent.
That’s the brass tacks.
I’ll be sure to communicate this experience when friends, in and outside of the industry, ask me for part supplier recommendations for brewing.
Perhaps weigh the total amount I’ve spent with your company versus the 36$ that it would cost you not to permanently loose my patronage.
Bon voyage

-XXXXX

***************************************************
XXXXX,
Be sure to include the fact that the item was 4.5 years past the purchase date when you bash my service ethic.
-Bobby

****************************************************

Don’t worry. I have been. The truth still makes you look ******.

-XXXXX

 

[matt_m]

I say post the name and warn others.

Can I get a refund on the RIMS tube I bought used, used for a year, then sold?

 

[Tom R]

It sucks to have unhappy customers, but at this point, I'd realize that this one person cannot be reasoned with.
And I'd remember that there are many, many more folks who are happy to support your business.

 

[Qhrumphf]

That seems fishy to me. Like customer broke it and trying to get a free one.

 

[jhnmdahl]

If it’s a manufacturing defect and not wear and tear, I can see trying to help him out if he’a being polite and you still have a relationship with the part manufacturer.

In this particular case, I’d be tempted to just move on and amend my T&C to encourage users to immediately inspect any purchase for manufacturing defects or other problems so that they may be rectified during the stated warranty period.

Almost all of your potential/future customers will recognize that asking for something four years out of warranty to be replaced is a long shot at best, and you’re probably better of without the handful of potential customers who might side with this particular customer.

 

[Steveruch]

Sounds like he's trying to pull something. Personally I would, maybe, ask politely but would not expect a freebee that long after the warranty expired.

 

[Bobby_M]

I kinda knew the answer before I asked but I think it's good to check your ethics occassionally. I honestly care about doing the right thing and when I'm so jaded that I don't anymore, I'll get out of the business.

Even with the attitude I got, I'm still looking into getting some replacement seats from that vendor.

 

[Kharnynb]

I mean, it never hurts to ask and I can see someone having a part as "spare" that long.
But the vendor has the right to refuse replacing after warranty is over.
I've worked for a bunch of big tech companies as support when younger and some are more lenient than others, but all tend to let the support agent make the call to give leniency or not.

 

[Bobby_M]

I mean, it never hurts to ask and I can see someone having a part as "spare" that long.
But the vendor has the right to refuse replacing after warranty is over.
I've worked for a bunch of big tech companies as support when younger and some are more lenient than others, but all tend to let the support agent make the call to give leniency or not.

Completely agree. He didn't come in asking if there replacement seats or a way to repair. If I had replacements on hand, I would have offered them for free if the customer covered shipping.

 

[NGD]

I don’t get people like this. The few times I found something faulty after I tested it past the return period was on me. The vendor shouldn't have to suffer loss due to me being busy or lazy.

 

[Sailingeric]

Lack of use is probably worse on a part like this than using the hell out of it. We have two sinks in the guest bathroom that hardly is ever used and the faucet started leaking and given the part was 4 years old, I knew it was all on me, even though it may have been used a dozen times. The best I would have done if the customer was nice is to offer a discount, but being an ass, screw them.

 

[eric19312]

Seems like somebody was having a bad day and took it out on you. Hopefully not one of these vile trolls that is going to wander around posting negative reviews all over the place. I think you are in the right here Bobby but hope it doesn't bite you.

 

[Genuine]

I've been working in retail and customer service for 10+ years now and there's always a few people who try to take advantage of something. I think if he was a as decent of a "customer" he claims to be, then he wouldn't have acted in the way that he did, and then further threaten and treat you the way he did. That's just like a 2 year old stomping their feet when they don't get their way. The warranty is good only for the warranty period...end of story. Not for someone to demand it be replaced 4 years later. As soon as the piece was purchased the warranty clock starts ticking. I personally don't care about warranty's because I feel like they're such a pain in the ass to deal with and I'd rather attempt to fix or just buy another one instead of going through the entire process...but that's just me.

No reason for him to act the way he did. Sometimes there are some people not worth doing business with.

 

[pvpeacock]

Unfortunately, that may also be a reflection of our times where people want something for nothing and don't want to follow rules when they do not suit their interests. You did the right thing and I continue to believe the vast majority of Americans are honorable and reasonable. It just seems like the "vast majority" has been slipping to a "simple majority" over time.

 

[Electric Brewer]

Sounds like exactly the type of customer that you are better off without. People who think that the customer is king are forgetting that there's no kings anymore. France even had a nice way to end the tyranny.

Personally, what I look for in a relationship with a business depends on the size. For small local shops, I expect to have a human contact. Maybe some advices. And for that I will pay their asking price on things that I need. For a big business, it's competitive pricing, good inventory and fast shipping.

 

[Rodent]

 

[Rodent]

No, I'm not the person with the warranty issue ... just a former manufacturing business owner who found another way to earn income after having enough of these kinds of customer stunts

 

[Bobby_M]

No, I'm not the person with the warranty issue ... just a former manufacturing business owner who found another way to earn income after having enough of these kinds of customer stunts

Nice to meet you Bobby of the future!

 

[jseyfert3]

Honestly the second email tips off the sort of person they are. There's nothing wrong at all with refusing to warranty a 4 year old valve with a 1 year warranty.

 

[Knightshade]

It is kind of appalling that they even bothered to ask. There is a certain truth to the 'it never hurts to ask' type of mentality that some customers feel entitled..obligated...(pick) to follow through with. You even went so far as to entertain the notion, repeat customer, relatively inexpensive part..WTH, why not.

The response afterwards from this now (and I would say thankfully) ex-customer...wow. Such is life in small business, you will try to please everybody but inevitably you won't. And you've got to be okay with it, and in some cases like this one, you'll be better off that you didn't.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I had a problem with a MB item. It was over a year old so I didn't feel right asking MB for a replacement. I just chalked it up to "lesson learned" and "I should have more thoroughly tested the item within the warranty period." I posted my honest review of the item at MB. MB contacted me about the item. We then spoke on the phone. MB offered 100% store credit. I honestly felt guilty accepting as I didn't return/complain within the warranty period. MB will not give up with their offer. I accepted their offer in the hopes a better model will eventually appear for sale at MB.

 

[bkboiler]

Wow I'm totally on the opposite end of this...usually I'll just repair unless something is obviously a total loss...only contact the vendor when looking for advice on how to repair.

I'm talking like a kettle or something. I reckon brew parts are a lot like a roof...materials and workmanship warranty should be long (it's stainless), but it's gotta be obviously due to that.
Point leaks (like on a roof) are so usually due to installer error, the manufacturer only warrants them for a short time.
Sounds like this guy stored it too long without turning it, then was suprised when the compression set on the seals rendered them ineffective....that's kinda how they're designed...gotta move em every once in a while, just like a car that's not driven can wear out the seals (no oil flow).

 

[passedpawn]

I'm ranting now... what say you?

Meh. A thousand years ago, and a thousand years from now, that customer will exist. It's the human condition. To rant about it is to shout at at the clouds. I'm all for venting, let er rip Bobby. But don't expect anything to change, ever.

For every customer, even the type you had there, there is an IDEAL way to deal with them that effectively talks them down from their heap of anger, and ends with both of you satisfied. It is possible with every person. I own a company and deal with this same thing all the time. Look at every confrontation as an opportunity for you to sharpen your skills.

 

[khannon]

Thing is, everyone who deals with the customer in question knows what type of person they are within a few minutes of talking with them. I don't doubt they will complain, I do doubt that many will listen.

For what it is worth. Everything I have bought from Brewhardware.com has been top notch, and I would not hesitate to recommend to friends.

I suppose on topic, yes expecting to return a part 4+ years later seems ridiculous. I don't think I would ask much less expect it unless it specifically specified with a warranty that long.

 

[day_trippr]

Anyone with a customer-facing position has my sympathies...

 

[Bobby_M]

Meh. A thousand years ago, and a thousand years from now, that customer will exist. It's the human condition. To rant about it is to shout at at the clouds. I'm all for venting, let er rip Bobby. But don't expect anything to change, ever.

For every customer, even the type you had there, there is an IDEAL way to deal with them that effectively talks them down from their heap of anger, and ends with both of you satisfied. It is possible with every person. I own a company and deal with this same thing all the time. Look at every confrontation as an opportunity for you to sharpen your skills.

The best thing I can really do is to get myself out of the customer facing side of the post-sale business entirely. I have a very polite employee that is fielding more of these types of calls, ultimately with the "answer" coming from me behind the scenes but she more prone to the high road for longer than I can handle. I remember dealing with St. Pat's of Texas about 12 years ago and the owner was short, rude, aggressive and profane with me for asking for a shipping quote. Immediately I wondered who pissed in the guy's cherrios. I guess it was a handful of customers over a lot of years.