Dirty, cheap (and small) solution for co2 purging?

[Zadkiel]

I'm not at the level of doing sealed transfers (yet, maybe one day!), I'm using a plastic fermentation bucket and a plastic bottling bucket so I can add priming sugar, and manually syphoning from one to the other.

I was thinking I'd like to purge the bottling bucket and maybe even my bottles (although I think oxygen absorbing caps are doing OK for that) but I don't have any equipment, don't want to spend a lot, and don't have the space right now to store a full-size CO2 canister even if I wanted to get one.

I was wondering, is there any cheap & dirty purging option? Maybe like an adapter I can screw on a sodastream (or similar) bottle that will let me purge a bucket/bottles with it? Would that even be effective in preventing oxygenation?

 

[fluketamer]

there are options. but i think soda stream is an expensive one

cheaper is the shank tank


i dont know if purging the bucket will make a difference

dr hans uses the sodastream canister in the dock with a piece of silicon tubing attached to the nozzle. as a cheap ultra portable purger . its a good idea.


if you dont have space for full size3d kegging check out cankeg tap kits for the fridge they ae genius.

 

[Zadkiel]

Thanks for the reply!

First one is way too large. Gotta keep the wife happy and I only just a few weeks ago took 2 shelves out of our storeroom so I could build a fermentation fridge, don't want to push my luck just yet. second one looks perfect, but cheap it aint

 

[Bassman2003]

Fermentation gas is going to be your best bet for free CO2. But using buckets you will be limited to zero pressure, so you can not store much of it outside of when fermentation is active.

 

[mac_1103]

You can purge any vessel that seals airtight with fermentation gas. And then you can do a gravity closed transfer from your fermenter to that sealed vessel. People (including me) have done this with buckets and carboys, but the problem is getting them to really seal.

 

[redrocker652002]

What I try and do is when I am ready to transfer from the bucket to the keg I quickly pop off the airlock and push in my co2 line from my tank. I open the valve very slowly until I see the top of the bucket start to bulge a bit. I then will hook up everything to my keg and start the transfer. I am not sure if it is any better or not, but that is what I do. I am wondering if you can give that a try on your bucket to bottle as well. To be honest, I watch a lot of the "pro" guys and see them pretty routinely just run a hose into the open keg and fill it up without even worrying about being closed. If your beer is turning out ok, I say stay with it. No need to complicate the process unless you feel you want to for the sake of learning (just for info, that is what I do. I like the DIY stuff and learning new stuff during the process.)

I should also add that I run a keg of starsan thru my tap and lines before I do this, so the keg has been purged and is full of CO2. I have to open the relief valve on the keg or it will blow beer thru the little hole on the petcock of the bucket, but I think I am keeping most of the air out doing it this way.

 

[fluketamer]

Thanks for the reply!

First one is way too large. Gotta keep the wife happy and I only just a few weeks ago took 2 shelves out of our storeroom so I could build a fermentation fridge, don't want to push my luck just yet. second one looks perfect, but cheap it aint

the parts for the second one can be aquired seperately cheaper through a big name homebrew dealer or ali express

all you need is regulator sodastrema adaptor some duotight fitting and tubing and a ball lock

then work with (bottle in) these :

this is worth the investment . your beer will thank you for it,.

 

[MaxStout]

Just blasting CO2 from a tank or other source will displace some of the air, but there will be a fair amount of air remaining (gas diffusion law), as it will simply mix. It will dilute the air some, but you'll still have a lot of air in there.

Purging continuously as @mac_1103 mentioned is probably the best method, as it exchanges CO2 for air in the vessel several times over during an active fermentation. This will reduce the amount of remaining air to a very small amount.

Another way is to fill the vessel with a sanitizer solution and use the incoming CO2 from the fermenter to force out the liquid. That leaves an atmosphere of almost pure CO2 in the vessel.

 

[Whisky River]

Not perfect, but probably better than nothing for a light CO2 blanket.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Bassman2003]

I'm not at the level of doing sealed transfers (yet, maybe one day!), I'm using a plastic fermentation bucket and a plastic bottling bucket so I can add priming sugar, and manually syphoning from one to the other.

I was thinking I'd like to purge the bottling bucket and maybe even my bottles (although I think oxygen absorbing caps are doing OK for that) but I don't have any equipment, don't want to spend a lot, and don't have the space right now to store a full-size CO2 canister even if I wanted to get one.

I was wondering, is there any cheap & dirty purging option? Maybe like an adapter I can screw on a sodastream (or similar) bottle that will let me purge a bucket/bottles with it? Would that even be effective in preventing oxygenation?

The key to anything oxygen free is the vessel being sealed and never opened. If you are going to open either one of the buckets then any kind of purging is going to be compromised. If your buckets had spigots you could use fermentation gas purging and gravity for transfers to greatly improve your current situation. Just never take the lids off and run everything in and out through the spigots.

 

[redrocker652002]

The key to anything oxygen free is the vessel being sealed and never opened. If you are going to open either one of the buckets then any kind of purging is going to be compromised. If your buckets had spigots you could use fermentation gas purging and gravity for transfers to greatly improve your current situation. Just never take the lids off and run everything in and out through the spigots.

That sounds very much like what I do. The only time the beer is exposed is when I take the airlock out and push the CO2 line into the hole. Usually just two or three seconds and hopefully not enough gets in to make a difference.

 

[mac_1103]

FWIW, you can replace the airlock/grommet on a bucket with a keg post.

 

[Bassman2003]

That sounds very much like what I do. The only time the beer is exposed is when I take the airlock out and push the CO2 line into the hole. Usually just two or three seconds and hopefully not enough gets in to make a difference.

So you have spigots on both buckets? What is the role of CO2 in the airlock hole? For displacement when you are gravity transferring?

 

[Closet Fermenter]

You could ferment in a soda keg, and bottle directly from the keg via a floating dip tube. You would still need a way to introduce CO₂ into the keg, but others have already covered that.

This made me think; has anyone tried or heard of anyone adding a spigot to a soda keg? Then you could gravity bottle from the keg using only a minimum amount of CO₂ to relieve the vacuum created as it drains.

 

[redrocker652002]

So you have spigots on both buckets? What is the role of CO2 in the airlock hole? For displacement when you are gravity transferring?

I have a spigot on my fermenting bucket and go into the liquid line of the keg with the floating dip tube hooked up. My thought, and maybe it is wrong, is to have the CO2 offset any O2 that might have snuck in, give it a bit of pressure to move it along and maybe avoid any O2 being sucked in during the transfer. But, now that I think about it, I guess I can just do gravity transfer and don't take the airlock out at all. The only thing I have to worry about then is a small amount of O2 or water sucking thru the airlock and into the beer at the top. Might be a bit easier that way and I was doing it that way at the start of my kegging. Hmmm, now that makes me think I was doing an extra step I didn't need to.

 

[redrocker652002]

You could ferment in a soda keg, and bottle directly from the keg via a floating dip tube. You would still need a way to introduce CO₂ into the keg, but others have already covered that.

This made me think; has anyone tried or heard of anyone adding a spigot to a soda keg? Then you could gravity bottle from the keg using only a minimum amount of CO₂ to relieve the vacuum created as it drains.

Eventually I think that is what I am going to do. But for now, I have the bucket and it fits in the fermenting fridge I have.

 

[mac_1103]

now that I think about it, I guess I can just do gravity transfer and don't take the airlock out at all

Take the airlock out before you ferment. Hook up a line from the bucket lid to the keg to purge it with fermentation gas. Then return the CO2 that's in the keg to the fermenter as you fill the keg. Closed loop gravity transfer.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have a spigot on my fermenting bucket and go into the liquid line of the keg with the floating dip tube hooked up. My thought, and maybe it is wrong, is to have the CO2 offset any O2 that might have snuck in, give it a bit of pressure to move it along and maybe avoid any O2 being sucked in during the transfer. But, now that I think about it, I guess I can just do gravity transfer and don't take the airlock out at all. The only thing I have to worry about then is a small amount of O2 or water sucking thru the airlock and into the beer at the top. Might be a bit easier that way and I was doing it that way at the start of my kegging. Hmmm, now that makes me think I was doing an extra step I didn't need to.

Sorry, I thought you were going into a bottling bucket. If you have a keg in the mix, then if you can, try this setup:

1) Run a "dry" airlock on your fermenter attached to a hose and hook it up to the keg "liquid out".
2) Run a hose from the keg's "Gas In" to a bottle with water/starsan. (this is your new airlock)
3) Leave this hooked up for all of the fermentation as this will purge the keg of all oxygen.
4) After fermentation is complete, take the dry airlock line and connect it to your spigot.
5) Connect the gas line from the keg on to the "dry airlock" to replace the area in the fermenter with CO2 from the keg.
6) Transfer from the fermenter to the keg and you will be set.

Step 4a) Run a little into a 2nd container to push any new oxygen out from disconnecting hoses

It helps if your fermenter is already elevated for the ferment so the gravity transfer is already set up.

 

[MaxStout]

FWIW, you can replace the airlock/grommet on a bucket with a keg post.

And with a disconnect, disposable syringe and bit of tubing you can make liquid additions, oxygen-free.

 

[Zadkiel]

the parts for the second one can be aquired seperately cheaper through a big name homebrew dealer or ali express

all you need is regulator sodastrema adaptor some duotight fitting and tubing and a ball lock

then work with (bottle in) these :

View attachment 879934

this is worth the investment . your beer will thank you for it,.

This is exactly what I was after. Now I just need to work out how to make it.

 

[fluketamer]

let me see if i can find my invoice from morebeer from when i ordered my parts.

iirc you need :

soda stream adaptor
https://www.amazon.com/Goick-Adapte...rds=sodastream+adapter&qid=1752712131&sr=8-56

minireg:

Ball Lock Disconnect MFL (gas)
2' EVA 5mm ID Hose
1/4" MFL > 1/4" Barb Adapter
1/4" FFL > 8mm Duotight Fitting
Duotight Check Valve
Clamp 6-8mm


this will get you portable gas that will fit in fridge.

 

[Zadkiel]

Sorry for my delay in replying.

Thank you, that's amazing. Unfortunately I'm in the UK so I'll need to find local equivalents but now I have the list of parts I can do that.

One worry I have is, the amazon listing for the sodastream adapter shows one single review, from a person in the UK who said it doesn't fit, and I notice it seems to indicate an imperial size on it "3/8-24UNF" I'm guessing is 3/8 inches, so that makes me wonder if non-US sodastream bottles are different.

 

[mac_1103]

"3/8-24UNF" is the thread size for the threaded CO2 cartridges that the mini regulator takes out of the box. The adapter has male 3/8-24UNF threads on one side to attach to the regulator and female TR21-4 threads on the other to attach to the sodastream cylinder. Although there are two types of sodastream cylinders so make sure you have the right ones. The newer ones have quick connects. Of course, there are adapters for that too.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Edit: Wrong Thread