Difference between partial mash and steeping

[fauxtoe]

What is the real difference? If I use strike water and sparge water boiling seperate and follow partial mash instructions like I clarified here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/partial-mash-recipe-313658/

Compared to just having a mesh bag filled with grains sitting in a pot at 160* for 30 minutes(steeping)?



Also, how do I know when conversion has happened?

Thanks, these little nuances make my head spin

 

[zeg]

That's most of the difference. Independent of the procedure, a mash involves enzymatic conversion of starch into sugars, whereas a steep is just extracting sugars and other compounds from the already-converted grains.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Starch conversion is not usually something you need to test for, because the right malts at the right temperature will inevitably convert. Just make sure to use a calibrated thermometer and a reasonable water-to-grain ratio (usually between 1.25 and 2 quarts of water per pound of grain).

It's fairly evident if something is amiss - the "wort" will look like coffee with a lot of milk added to it instead of a semi-clear deep brown, and taste starchy rather than sweet. Converted wort also has a tendency to form some bubbles on the surface that have a rainbow-like sheen to them.

Iodine is the easiest way to test for actual conversion.

 

[fauxtoe]

zeg -So it's the same thing if the steep is done correctly at the right temperature for the right amount of time?

ArcaneXor - How is the iodine used to test for conversion?

Thanks y'all!

 

[FATC1TY]

I always thought that steeping was similar to just putting the bag of grain in some water at say 155*F and timing it out to whatever the recipe called, and partial mash was putting the grain in 155* and waiting for a longer period then sparging the grain at 170* before boiling it and adding some extract.

I could be wrong thought, as I've only brewed a few times, but have had great results with that.

 

[KettleCorn]

Great question... listening for more.

I was told that we are not Partial Mashing if we are using any extract (LME or DME) but instead we are "Extract Brewing with specialty grains". So I am interested where the line is drawn for those who (like me) are claiming to be "Partial Mashing" too....

 

[ResumeMan]

Except for the fact that both involve crushed grains sitting in hot water, they are really completely different techniques.

Steeping: Uses only grains that do not have starches that must be converted, such as crystal malt, roast barley, etc. Just involves soaking the grains in fairly hot water, and it doesn't matter much how hot or how much water. It's just to extract the sugars and other flavor elements that are in the grain. You then add malt extract to provide the fermentables.

Partial mash: Involves grains that have unconverted starches plus enzymes. Placed in water within a very specific temperature range (around 149-158) and in a more limited range of dilutions (usually around 1.2 to 2 qt water/lb grain). And the whole point of this exercise is to allow the active enzymes in the grain to convert starch to sugar. You may also put crystal, roast etc. in there, because the same extraction will occur along with the starch conversion. "Partial mash" is simply a small-ish mash that doesn't provide enough fermentables for the batch, so you have to add some malt extract to make up the difference.

As far as equipment, "steeping" is usually just done in a mesh bag in the boil pot; "Partial mash" is usually done in a separate vessel (mash tun), and the sugars are rinsed (sparged) into the kettle, either as a continuous rinse or in one or two batches.

 

[ResumeMan]

Great question... listening for more.

I was told that we are not Partial Mashing if we are using any extract (LME or DME) but instead we are "Extract Brewing with specialty grains". So I am interested where the line is drawn for those who (like me) are claiming to be "Partial Mashing" too....

No, that's not quite right. You are not all grain brewing if you use any extract. You are partial mashing if you use any grains that need starch conversion, such as 2-row, munich malt, or pilsener malt.

 

[Draken]

No, that's not quite right. You are not all grain brewing if you use any extract. You are partial mashing if you use any grains that need starch conversion, such as 2-row, munich malt, or pilsener malt.

I disagree. I think if you are using extract to boost a inefficient mash or just change your mind and want to bump the ABV it's still an all grain brew. Even with all grain we add additional fermentables depending on the style. So if you exclude those additions (candi sugar, dextrose, honey) then say 80% of the remaining fermentables came from grain is that enough? Maybe 90%? I could agree with that. There just needs to be a little lee way to allow for those oops moments we all make on occasion.

 

[EndlessPurple]

So which grains are which?

I got the crystals for steep and 2 row for partial mash, but what about ones like Canadian Honey, Aromatics, Biscuit, Melanoidin, etc...?

 

[Draken]

So which grains are which?

I got the crystals for steep and 2 row for partial mash, but what about ones like Canadian Honey, Aromatics, Biscuit, Melanoidin, etc...?

All those are specialty grains, most can be used for steeping or in a mash. The base malts are the ones that have to be mashed:
2 row
6 row
Wheat malt
Maris otter
Munich
Vienna

 

[zeg]

Except for the fact that both involve crushed grains sitting in hot water, they are really completely different techniques.
[...]
As far as equipment, "steeping" is usually just done in a mesh bag in the boil pot; "Partial mash" is usually done in a separate vessel (mash tun), and the sugars are rinsed (sparged) into the kettle, either as a continuous rinse or in one or two batches.

I don't agree that they're "completely different techniques." You're correct that the detailed parameters are far more important to a mash than to a steep, but at the end of the day you're soaking grain in hot water in both cases. Certainly you could use a mash schedule for steeping, and opinions and practices vary for steeping---some people are careful to hold at a target temperature much like a "mash," while others just throw them in while heating and remove the grains at 170° or at boiling.

Also, as far as equipment, you are correct about the traditional difference, but plenty of people use identical equipment for both. I've done extract + steep and BIAB partial mashes using the same gear.

Since techniques and equipment vary, I think the most important distinction is whether you're converting starches or not. That defines what techniques you'll need to use.

 

[Draken]

Since techniques and equipment vary, I think the most important distinction is whether you're converting starches or not. That defines what techniques you'll need to use.

I completely agree. So to restate another way, it depends on if you are using base malt or just specialty grains. If you refer to the list of base malts above, those all require conversion to be used to create wort. Specialty grains can donate some sugar flavor and color without requiring conversion.

Think making tea or coffee vs ice cream. Tea or coffee you pull the flavor from your ingredients without any cooking. Temp is just required to extract the flavor. For ice cream you actually cook everything and convert the ingredients into something else.

 

[ResumeMan]

Since techniques and equipment vary, I think the most important distinction is whether you're converting starches or not. That defines what techniques you'll need to use.

That's really the point I was trying to make.

 

[divrguy]

And if you really want to all grain the easy way, look up BIAB brewing.