Did I Ruin My Beverage Cooler MLT?

[JimE]

Today, I was a dumb ass. I swapped out the zinc/steel washer with a stainless washer tonight. Then I put a quart of vineager and several gallons of hot water in it to take any lead off of the surface of the brass part.

Here is the dumb thing, I used boiling water. The liner of the cooler cracked all the way around. There were no leaks. I then drained the acid solution and filled the cooler with 10 gal. of cool water. No leaks.

Have I ruined this MLT? Should I go ahead and use it for my 1st all-grain batch on Wednesday, or should I swap out the cooler with a new one?

Help!

 

[Stuntman]

IMHO if there is a crack you could get wort behind tub, and then back into the tub, bringing whatever kind of insulation back with it. I would make dang sure that the insulation won't touch beer, it might do something like breathing fiberglass shards, only to your throat.

 

[DavidP]

Without seeing any photos I'd swap it out. Many liners will flex/warp when hit with their first hot grain bed, and your cracked liner might fail on your first batch.

 

[boneshb]

I agree, an actual crack could cause goobers to make it into your wort. And any wort left behind would be prone to mold/nastifiying itself.

 

[Stuntman]

Hey how about a slide on this thread...

I have noticed my MT warping one side really noticeable. For JimE and myself, what is a good replacement that will last?

JimE, the manifold will come out and Reattach to new cooler.

Any input would be appreciated (and I'll stop hyjacking thread).

 

[boneshb]

Warping is fine and normal on these coolers, I wouldnt worry about it too much until its causing issues with doughballs/excess leftover wort...

 

[effinpansy]

Why not try a high quality silicone caulk in the crack? Speaking as some one in the building trade, if fiberglass shards in your throat is a remote possiblity from this cooler, I'd not worry too much. (Ever demo an old house?) Caulk the crack and wipe of the excess with a paper towel (dipped in denatured alcohol). If you really smoosh it into the crack it will seal quite well, though it will leak behind the liner eventually.

 

[OLDBREW]

Today, I was a dumb ass. I swapped out the zinc/steel washer with a stainless washer tonight. Then I put a quart of vinegar and several gallons of hot water in it to take any lead off of the surface of the brass part.

Here is the dumb thing, I used boiling water. The liner of the cooler cracked all the way around. There were no leaks. I then drained the acid solution and filled the cooler with 10 gal. of cool water. No leaks.

Have I ruined this MLT? Should I go ahead and use it for my 1st all-grain batch on Wednesday, or should I swap out the cooler with a new one?

Help!

If the foam is exposed, you either need to buy a new cooler, or try to patch the cooler with food grade silicon. I don't know if the silicon will adhere to the plastic that well. The ingredients in molded foam insulation is probably not safe for human consumption.

 

[Hillbilly_Bill]

Is it really worth it to try to patch it up? Buy a new one and you will feel much better about the whole thing... even if it does lighten your wallet a little.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Why not try a high quality silicone caulk in the crack? Speaking as some one in the building trade, if fiberglass shards in your throat is a remote possiblity from this cooler, I'd not worry too much. (Ever demo an old house?) Caulk the crack and wipe of the excess with a paper towel (dipped in denatured alcohol). If you really smoosh it into the crack it will seal quite well, though it will leak behind the liner eventually.

Yeah, try aquarium silicone. Check it after each brew, and replace as needed.

 

[JimE]

I bought a new cooler today. Good to go.

 

[HSM]

Today, I was a dumb ass. I swapped out the zinc/steel washer with a stainless washer tonight. Then I put a quart of vineager and several gallons of hot water in it to take any lead off of the surface of the brass part.

I've always done my brass in a 2:1 vinegar/peroxide solution for a few minutes. (I'm guessing the ratio, I always look it up on Palmers site).

 

[joety]

Yeah, try aquarium silicone. Check it after each brew, and replace as needed.

I've repaired my warped/cracked HLT with electrical tape. If applied when dry, it's amazingly waterproof. I don't know if it's food safe, but it's tough to imagine any appreciable quantity of chemical leeching in to the beer if it's not failing.

 

[Hillbilly_Bill]

I've repaired my warped/cracked HLT with electrical tape. If applied when dry, it's amazingly waterproof. I don't know if it's food safe, but it's tough to imagine any appreciable quantity of chemical leeching in to the beer if it's not failing.

Electrical tape? Please tell me you are joking.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Electrical tape? Please tell me you are joking.

Surely he meant Duct Tape!

 

[JimE]

Well, my first cooler may not be ruined! It had what looks to be a fine crack all around the inside at the 2 gallon mark. After rigging the second cooler i noticed the same "crack" in that cooler. I don't know if it is a seam, a scribe line or what? Do any of you have a similar line in your cooler? This is a Rubbermaid 10 gallon beverage cooler witht he Home Depot label. I guess if the old one is still good, I have a HLT!

 

[Hillbilly_Bill]

I bought a new cooler today. Good to go.

Good move, JimE.

 

[JarrodH]

Well, my first cooler may not be ruined! It had what looks to be a fine crack all around the inside at the 2 gallon mark. After rigging the second cooler i noticed the same "crack" in that cooler. I don't know if it is a seam, a scribe line or what? Do any of you have a similar line in your cooler? This is a Rubbermaid 10 gallon beverage cooler witht he Home Depot label. I guess if the old one is still good, I have a HLT!

Just noticed mine has the same line all around it at the 2 gallon mark. Had not noticed it until you mentioned it.

 

[RLinNH]

I got tired of Melting/Warping Coolers and moved up to a Stainless Steel MLT. Insulate and maintain the girl properly and you're on your way to never buying another MLT as long as you live. :fro:

 

[joety]

Electrical tape? Please tell me you are joking.

No joke. If you have any knowledge of harmful chemical that could leach from the tape, let me know. I noticed it's water resistant qualities over time when using it to mark levels on the outside of carboys.

 

[RLinNH]

No joke. If you have any knowledge of harmful chemical that could leach from the tape, let me know. I noticed it's water resistant qualities over time when using it to mark levels on the outside of carboys.

On the Job Site, it used to be common occurence to wrap a minor cut in electrical tape. Anywho, I was told by an EMT on the job that saw my cut that Electrical tape had something bad in it and that it could leach into my wound and cause an ifection. I don't recall what the substance was, but I do know that if it can cause an infection in the human body, I don't want it anywhere near my Mash. Just incase you are wondering, I am a Union Carpenter in Boston, MA.

 

[Hillbilly_Bill]

No joke. If you have any knowledge of harmful chemical that could leach from the tape, let me know. I noticed it's water resistant qualities over time when using it to mark levels on the outside of carboys.

I have never... never seen anything made of black plastic or vinyl that was labeled as being food grade material. If you use equipment that is not food grade to brew your beer, please don't give it to anyone else to drink.
Also, put a little heat to electrical tape and watch it slide on its own adhesive. I don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that I don't want my beer touching this adhesive.
Looks like you didn't think this one out.

 

[joety]

I have never... never seen anything made of black plastic or vinyl that was labeled as being food grade material. If you use equipment that is not food grade to brew your beer, please don't give it to anyone else to drink.
Also, put a little heat to electrical tape and watch it slide on its own adhesive. I don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that I don't want my beer touching this adhesive.
Looks like you didn't think this one out.

According to the website, it maintains its waterproof qualities up to 220 degrees and it's never slipped. It probably has about 30-40 minutes of contact time max. That said, I can't find anything on food safety. Maybe they never contemplated someone would use it to patch a cooler. If I can find a new HLT this weekend I'll replace it and be done with it. I don't heat my sparge water up as hot as I used to since I discovered I should have been raising the temp of the grain bed first with a second strike water.

 

[joety]

I found the manufacturers safety data sheet, but it opens in pdf and I can't figure out how to post a link. Anyway, it says it does not leech harmful chemicals in sufficient amounts to be a hazard, but this is generally in regards to contaminants in landfills. It also says somewhere else it does not leech harmful chemicals when used under normal conditions. There are references to three chemicals (which my their descriptions are likely dyes to make it black) that are suspected carcinogens.

 

[eggbeater59]

here's my suggestion
if you still havn't thrown out your first cooler, use some food grade silicon and seal it up, then use it as a hlt for fly sparging. it should be much easier to tell if you have styrofoam or whatever insulation these things use floating around in clear water than your mash tun.
or just use it as its original intended purpose- an actual beverage cooler lol

 

[hezagenius]

Just a question here - is the insulation in coolers really that harmful? I would think that if something is meant to contain food and drink, the manufacturer wouldn't use materials that are harmful, at least not blatantly.

 

[Hillbilly_Bill]

Just a question here - is the insulation in coolers really that harmful? I would think that if something is meant to contain food and drink, the manufacturer wouldn't use materials that are harmful, at least not blatantly.

Is the insulation harmful? I don't know, but it is made up of some pretty nasty stuff and breathing the fumes is not advisable when it is in liquid form.
The more important point is that is if the brew can get to the insulation it can leech into the walls of the cooler and support the production of all kinds of microbes.
This isn't rocket science guys... why are we still talking about taking these chances with our brew? Some of you guys are scaring the hell out of me. I doubt I will ever be able to drink someone else's beer from here on out thinking they may have the same approach to their equipment as some of you guys do.
If you guys aren't going to take this sanitation and safety issue a little more seriously it is going to bite you in the long run. I hope not, but you certainly are playing with fire.

 

[beerocd]

Is the insulation harmful? I don't know, but it is made up of some pretty nasty stuff and breathing the fumes is not advisable when it is in liquid form.
The more important point is that is if the brew can get to the insulation it can leech into the walls of the cooler and support the production of all kinds of microbes.
This isn't rocket science guys... why are we still talking about taking these chances with our brew? Some of you guys are scaring the hell out of me. I doubt I will ever be able to drink someone else's beer from here on out thinking they may have the same approach to their equipment as some of you guys do.
If you guys aren't going to take this sanitation and safety issue a little more seriously it is going to bite you in the long run. I hope not, but you certainly are playing with fire.

Threads like this keep me from wanting to be a BJCP Judge. :cross:

 

[joety]

Is the insulation harmful? I don't know, but it is made up of some pretty nasty stuff and breathing the fumes is not advisable when it is in liquid form.
The more important point is that is if the brew can get to the insulation it can leech into the walls of the cooler and support the production of all kinds of microbes.
This isn't rocket science guys... why are we still talking about taking these chances with our brew? Some of you guys are scaring the hell out of me. I doubt I will ever be able to drink someone else's beer from here on out thinking they may have the same approach to their equipment as some of you guys do.
If you guys aren't going to take this sanitation and safety issue a little more seriously it is going to bite you in the long run. I hope not, but you certainly are playing with fire.

We're talking preboil. Sanitation has nothing to do with it, unless you plan on mashing for hours and hours and creating all sort of off flavors with the microbes. If you've ever read your cities water report and seen all the heavy metals and other chemicals, I'm wondering if you guys would be even drinking the water that comes out of your faucet, water that has likely journeyed many miles through the earth or collected in an open reservoir that picks up runoff from a massive watershed. I can't speak to the insulation in coolers, but the manufacturer would be insane to fill it with anything that contains harmful levels of something knowing what people use it for. The tape I used to fix my cooler has been used by aquarium enthusiasts to fix/repair/attach items in their fish tanks and has remained submerged for years (not minutes) without harming the fish. Being a former aquarium enthusiast myself, I can tell you that fish are very sensitive to differences in the water supply used to fill the tank. Does 3M list their product as "food safe"? No, but there is nothing in the safety information that gives me grave concerns. That said, I'll likely replace the cooler this weekend as I don't want to create a perception that I am not careful with my process.

 

[Hillbilly_Bill]

We're talking preboil. Sanitation has nothing to do with it, unless you plan on mashing for hours and hours and creating all sort of off flavors with the microbes. If you've ever read your cities water report and seen all the heavy metals and other chemicals, I'm wondering if you guys would be even drinking the water that comes out of your faucet, water that has likely journeyed many miles through the earth or collected in an open reservoir that picks up runoff from a massive watershed. I can't speak to the insulation in coolers, but the manufacturer would be insane to fill it with anything that contains harmful levels of something knowing what people use it for. The tape I used to fix my cooler has been used by aquarium enthusiasts to fix/repair/attach items in their fish tanks and has remained submerged for years (not minutes) without harming the fish. Being a former aquarium enthusiast myself, I can tell you that fish are very sensitive to differences in the water supply used to fill the tank. Does 3M list their product as "food safe"? No, but there is nothing in the safety information that gives me grave concerns. That said, I'll likely replace the cooler this weekend as I don't want to create a perception that I am not careful with my process.

1. "Sanitation has nothing to do with it." Wow. I guess you are sure that nothing can leach out of the foam into the water. I'm not so sure.
2. "If you guys read the water report, I doubt you would be drinking it."
I do not drink water out of a faucet. Any water I drink has either been processed through reverse osmosis or is distilled.
3. "The manufacturer would be insane to fill it with anything that had harmful levels of something in it."
Really? How many products have been recalled because of carcinogens, lead content, or other toxic substances in the past 10 years?
4. "Being a former aquarium enthusiast I can tell you that fish are sensitive."
I have never been that much of an aquarium enthusiast, but I did breed and raise tropical fish for local pet shops for a few years. Just for your info, I imagine quite a few folks on the forum are familiar with aquariums. I also know that many fish can thrive in water that has much heavy metal and many carcinogens in it. I live on such a river and will not eat any fish caught out of this river.
5. "I do not want to create the perception that I am not careful with my process."
Whatever makes you think that we would feel that way?
6. You are good to go now... you have absolutely worn me down on this subject... you win... I am giving up on you.

 

[joety]

1. Regardless of whether a microbe leaches out of the foam, it would be killed by the boil. Chemicals that leach out of the foam may or may not burn off during the boil, but again, you are confused as to what sanitation means, as it doesn't refer to chemicals.
2. Reverse osmosis removes organic contaminants and some inorganic contaminants, but certainly not all. I assume you don't drink milk, commercial beer, soda, or any other liquid that's likely made with tap water.
3. Yes, products have been recalled. Has this one?
4. I'm surprised someone who worked at a fish store doesn't know the difference between sensitive tropical fish and river carp.
5. "Whatever makes you think we would feel that way?" I really don't care how you feel, I was referring to my friends and family.
6. Oh darn, you just ruined my day.

Edit: BTW, you seem to have missed the product safety data I posted about the tape maintaining its waterproof qualities up to 220 degrees and the fact it does not leach harmful chemicals under normal conditions.

 

[hezagenius]

I guess my concern was that how can you be truly certain you have created a watertight seal between the inside of the cooler and the insulation in the walls? If you can't be certain, then it is possible that material from the insulation could make its way into the mash. So should we even be using coolers as mash tuns in the first place? Or do we just do the best we can and live with whatever might leech into the mash?

 

[kappclark]

Is there a max temp for the 10G rubbermaid ?

I would like to get one to use as an electric HLT.y max temp wld be 175...

will this kill the Rubbermaid beast?

 

[JimE]

Is there a max temp for the 10G rubbermaid ?

I would like to get one to use as an electric HLT.y max temp wld be 175...

will this kill the Rubbermaid beast?

I've had hotter in mine. It should be fine at that temp.

 

[joety]

I've had hotter in mine. It should be fine at that temp.

Well, my maiden brew with the brand new HLT ended with more warpage. I made sure the water was not hotter than 175. I think I should have preheated the tun first, it made some funny noises when I first added the sparge water.

 

[Gremlyn]

On the Job Site, it used to be common occurence to wrap a minor cut in electrical tape. Anywho, I was told by an EMT on the job that saw my cut that Electrical tape had something bad in it and that it could leach into my wound and cause an ifection. I don't recall what the substance was, but I do know that if it can cause an infection in the human body, I don't want it anywhere near my Mash. Just incase you are wondering, I am a Union Carpenter in Boston, MA.

In order for electrical tape to cause an infection, it would have to have bacteria or parasites on it, and those probably aren't there from the factory... Not saying it's safe to use, but electrical tape, itself, will not cause an infection.

You could probably seal the crack with a good lathering of JB Weld. That is supposed to be non-toxic and safe to use on food-related items. I have it on my heatstick and haven't grown an extra leg yet

 

[Wellshooter]

Good grief throw it out and buy another one.