Did anyone attend the B.U.Z.Z Boneyard Brew-Off?

[Brewkowski]

Has anyone received any notice of scorecards? I had a few entries and I was hoping to get some feedback before my next brew session.

 

[KYB]

I'm wondering the same. Emailed the organizer asking if/when the scoresheets were being mailed with no response.

 

[Brewkowski]

Still no scorecard or response from the organizer. Anyone else?

 

[mklawz]

Nope.

Im going to challenge the validity of this competition yet again. Not only is it taking too long for them to get the results posted and the scoresheets back, but Im questioning just how blind this competition is. The guy who ran the whole thing entered 8 beers and placed 7. Another guy from their club entered 14 and placed 9. Hmmmm.

 

[Brewkowski]

I was noticing that as well. I mean I understand entering lots of beers from your brew club, but like 26 BUZZ club beers placed. How many did they enter? This was my first competition so I didn't know if it was normal. I mean it's kind of like playing against a stacked deck. It doesn't really seem fair to have the organizer entering so many brews, are there normally rules regarding this? I figured since it was near by and had been going for 15 years, it was well established. I'm glad somebody else thought it was a little weird. But I can't complain too much my cider beat his out. Or is it that their beer is just that good?

 

[z987k]

Some of the guys in the club are amazing brewers and there were probably as many club entries as there were people not in the club... so. If more people entered from out of town, I would guess more of them would win. The guy that organized it has a hell of a setup and is one hell of a brewer. He basically brews for competitions, if you go search the winners of competitions in the area, I bet you'll find his name a few times.. But trust me, it was blind.

I have no idea about the scoresheets.

 

[mklawz]

His results in the other comps this year weren't any more amazing than other people's. In fact, less amazing than mine. Oh well, Im probably wrong but it is a little suspect.

It would be nice if he could respond to people's emails at the very least.

 

[Brewkowski]

So, it's been a month and still no scorecards or response from organizer?

 

[mklawz]

I ordered some hops from Oregon on Thursday. They got here in 5 days.

 

[KYB]

No scoresheet or response here.

 

[AnthonyB]

Greetings,

I will try to address the major issues/gripes being brought up.

Where are my scoresheets!? Why is it taking so long!? Why aren't my emails being answered!?
Last year when I organized, the scoresheets were sent out the first week of July. We are a few days beyond that, but I don't feel like we are really outside of the norm here. I've entered many, many competitions in the midwest where the scoresheets arrive 45+ days after the competition.

Believe it or not, I was not actually planning on organizing this year's competition because I knew I would have absolutely no time to devote to it. But when nobody else volunteered, as club president, it fell to me. Right now I am working 65+ hour work weeks trying to get a big project at work done (even worked through this last holiday weekend). And while I sympathize with you regarding paying for entries, scoresheets, etc. I am a volunteer for BUZZ, not a paid employee, and I just have not had the time to devote to this item involving the competition.

I'm not trying to slight anyone, but I'm not answering anyone's emails (including things not even related to the comp), I'm just too busy. You'll be happy to know, I've sent a response to everyone who recently emailed (I *think* I got you all, may have missed one or two) me.

This competition was biased, look how many ribbons the organizer took! This wasn't a fair, blind comp!
I've entered my fair share of competitions. Last year I lost the Midwest Homebrewer of the Year title by one ribbon. This year I also took a 2nd place medal in the MCAB for my ordinary bitter (which I had qualified for with a 1st place ribbon at Drunk Monk the year before). I've definitely had my share of wins (and losses!).

To infer that these results are somehow related to me organizing the competition is really a demonstration of ignorance on how our particular competition is organized. And it really is offensive. Besides the organizer, there are 3 other positions, head judge, head steward, and registrar. This year's head judge was a Nationally Ranked BJCP judge, who's job it was to arrange the flights, split tables, etc. based on what judges we had (and what they indicated they couldn't judge on their judge registration form). On the day of the competition, I essentially deferred all operational matters to the head judge and the head steward, I had very little involvement outside of my organizer's table.

Statistically, there is always some amount of home court advantage. However, for anyone who still doubts my brewing prowess, suggest a competition and a category, and I will be happy to send an entry to meet yours.

Geez, where is the good news in all of this?
Two items: One, I will not be organizing next year. Two, I should have the ribbons,scoresheets, etc. sent out soon.

I will try to reply again in this forum if it is warranted. But please take away from this that you have my apologies for not getting back to the emails sooner, and just in general about the delays regarding the scoresheets.

Cheers,
Anthony

 

[Spauldib]

Have all scoresheets and ribbons now been mailed?

I've yet to receive a packet, although two other brewers in my club have. Perhaps something got lost in the mail, or they are being shipped separately?
Thanks

 

[Brewkowski]

I received my ribbon and scorecards in the mail yesterday, so be on the look out, they're on their way.

 

[BierMuncher]

I got mine last week:

 

[Brewkowski]

CONGRATS!

I talked to a guy I know down state and he said the judges are brought in and are very meticulous and anal. I know my score card proved it. He also said that the guys in BUZZ do brew up some really good brews. So it sounds like that Champion plaque was well earned.

 

[z987k]

I got mine last week:

Ha, so I have tasted BM's beer and didn't even know it.

 

[BierMuncher]

Ha, so I have tasted BM's beer and didn't even know it.

And that was probably a good thing...:cross:

 

[Spauldib]

A quick bump on this old thread...

Anyone attend the 2010, 16th Buzz Boneyard Brew-Off and have any insight on results?

Hopefully this won't take as long as last year.

 

[mklawz]

Ha! I was wondering if this thread would re-appear!

I skipped it this year. Partially because of the poor response times last year, and partially because Im just spending too much money and effort on comps lately.

Good luck with the results, Spaulding!

 

[z987k]

I was there. Judged "Normal" Stouts on Friday, Then Imperial, IPA's and the high gravity thingy Saturday. I think we gave a RIS and an IPA a score in the 40's otherwise nothing that was extremely memorable. A lot of the IPA's were bitterly astringent - like clearly from too much hop bitterness and many were lacking hop flavor, which was interesting. Good bit of cardboard was showing up here and there in the styles I judged. Something I noticed lacking from a lot of the RIS was a dark fruit flavor. It's not supposed to be all up front, but completely missing, the beer then lacks some complexity. Something to think about if you are entering a RIS for a competition. I think a lot of people think a RIS is just a big fricken american or fex stout... which it really isn't. There's a lot more going on.

BOS went to a Black IPA, which also won the Longshot regional that day and BOS in another competition in Wisconsin all that same day.(from what I hear.) Runner up to that I think was a Lemongrass wheat and I can't remember the third... want to say some barrel aged porter or maybe even a mead.

From talking to one of the guys who did the mead judging, he said, for the most part they were all outstanding.

There was a Marzen and a strong scotch that got first in it's category that I got to taste the dregs of, and both were outstanding.

The high gravity winner was a Barleywine runner up was an old ale, both of those guys were present.

Had a pretty good set of judges. A Nationally ranked one or two, and a master - Jeff Sparrow, which was cool to get to talk to him a bit. I also judged with a Nationally ranked judge and our scores before we conversed were always within a point, which was cool.

I'm sure the results will be up in a few days.

 

[Spauldib]

Thanks for the detailed reply. This is the only information we have to go on so far. Again, no email communication from the organizers. Our club entered two large boxes of entries and we dont have any indication of them arriving safely or even being judged really. A few of them were barrel aged, so maybe that potential 3rd BOS is one of them.

Looking forward to the results. Thanks for the info.

 

[z987k]

Thanks for the detailed reply. This is the only information we have to go on so far. Again, no email communication from the organizers. Our club entered two large boxes of entries and we dont have any indication of them arriving safely or even being judged really. A few of them were barrel aged, so maybe that potential 3rd BOS is one of them.

Looking forward to the results. Thanks for the info.

You must not enter many competitions... and have clearly never organized. It's a **** ton of work and done without any real compensation.

Here's how every comp in the country works if you enter.

They receive your beer and put it in cold storage. The day of the comp it is judged and scores given. At the end of the judging there is usually a raffle and places are announced. A few days later positions might be put online, then weeks later you get your score sheet in the mail, possible with a medal. The organizer has to address and put the right score sheets in over 200 envelopes. That takes some time. It is very common for you to wait a month or more to get them back.

No one is ever going to e-mail you and say they received your beer. If you followed directions and shipped them safely, you can assume they were judged.

 

[Spauldib]

I have been involved in many competitions as an entrant, steward and judge. I understand how it works.

Competition organization takes a lot of time.
I understand that scoresheets take time.
Mailing out prizes takes time.

Posting results online takes pretty much as much time as it just took you to post that reply.

Many competitions I've entered have posted results within a day. Some post that night. One I entered this year posted individual categories within minutes of results throughout the day. I dont care if scoresheets/ribbons arrive weeks/months later. Putting a quick list of names online doesnt take much effort.

We are looking to plan ahead for the next competition. Online results show what beers might be worthwhile to mail out to the next competition before its too late.

 

[mklawz]

With all due respect z987k, Im with Spauldig in regards to posting results online. Ive also worked some comps, and I do know how much work goes into them. It's a massive effort. But I dont think it's asking too much for someone to log onto their computer that night or the next day and upload the results. Not trying to perpetuate an argument. I'm just saying that it would go a long way to improving things.

Maybe I'll enter this comp next year, and try to improve upon my 2nd BOS from last year.

 

[StunnedMonkey]

FWIW, I just got an email from Kyle that they've submitted the results to the webmaster and should be posted soon. Though I guess the definition of "soon" is rather open. Soon might be two days in webmaster time.

 

[Spauldib]

Results are up:
http://buzzbrewclub.org/wp/brew-off/16th-boneyard-brewoff/

Nice work Ken!

 

[remilard]

I can't believe you guys were whining about results getting up Tuesday after a competition.

 

[remilard]

I was there. Judged "Normal" Stouts on Friday, Then Imperial, IPA's and the high gravity thingy Saturday. I think we gave a RIS and an IPA a score in the 40's otherwise nothing that was extremely memorable. A lot of the IPA's were bitterly astringent - like clearly from too much hop bitterness and many were lacking hop flavor, which was interesting. Good bit of cardboard was showing up here and there in the styles I judged. Something I noticed lacking from a lot of the RIS was a dark fruit flavor. It's not supposed to be all up front, but completely missing, the beer then lacks some complexity. Something to think about if you are entering a RIS for a competition. I think a lot of people think a RIS is just a big fricken american or fex stout... which it really isn't. There's a lot more going on.

Good advice. I'm glad I'm not the only person on the internet who has noticed how common oxidation flaws are. I've noticed the same with IPAs, too much bitterness, not enough aroma. Which is weird because I suspect a lot of those beers (especially IIPAs) are clones of commercial beers (especially Pliny) that have tons of hop aroma.

 

[z987k]

I think with the IPAs people are hung up on how many IBUs they can put in something and neglect the flavor and aroma additions to some degree which ends up with a beer that is astringent from the bittering hops enough so that any flavor it would have had is masked.

Oxidation is likely from mishandling, low bottle fills. I was thinking maybe from counter pressure fills that then sit around a good long time with that bit of headspace. Bottle conditioned should not really have that problem. And people should be using oxygen barrier caps if something is going to sit. Maybe splashing of the beer a lot when racking. Some may just be too old.
I don't know, it was prevelent enough that I really started to speculate (in my head) as to what was going on. Could that many people be doing the same thing wrong. I thought not, so I was just trying to come up with any reason I could think for oxidation. Dare I say it... maybe HSA. But that is all speculation as I have no idea as to the brewers actual practices.