DFH Score!

[gunner65]

On this subject.....I sleep like a baby at night.

 

[Maxkling]

No, if you pay someone to purchase a keg that isn't stolen that's fine.



That's the sketchy part. The deposits aren't nearly enough to cover the cost of the keg--they're just there to help ensure you bring the keg back. But if you intentionally fail to do that, that's stealing (legally). This has been discussed here ad nauseum in the past.

Ok the whole term "stealing legally" doesn't exist. Its their fault for not pricing the deposit to cover the keg... Makes no sense to me.

Also receiving stolen property in the eyes of the law is almost just as bad as stealing to begin with.

The way I look at it, you pay the deposit legally its yours until returned for refund, you didn't steal it for money by scrapping or resale, and your supporting the hobby that MAINLY funds craft brew. More power to you, some people are just too liberal.

 

[emjay]

Ok the whole term "stealing legally" doesn't exist. Its their fault for not pricing the deposit to cover the keg... Makes no sense to me.

Also receiving stolen property in the eyes of the law is almost just as bad as stealing to begin with.

The way I look at it, you pay the deposit legally its yours until returned for refund, you didn't steal it for money by scrapping or resale, and your supporting the hobby that MAINLY funds craft brew. More power to you, some people are just too liberal.

He means "stealing (according to the law)", NOT "stealing (but legal)", Mr. Hawking

 

[Hannable1975]

in before this gets closed

 

[Whut]

SCORE...half of a keg of DF90 worth $175 and finally a GIANT kettle for $50 bucks!

Dude, be quiet. ATF is watching - they're everywhere!

 

[BrewFrisco]

Dude, be quiet. ATF is watching - they're everywhere!

No ****! I mean...black ops is hanging outside my house waiting for me to open my garage - need to confirm that I cut an AHB keg before they roll the extraction team in!!!

Chill....I have to empty the beer out of it first before breaking the law!!! So for all you law abiding citizens out there....I haven't broken any laws....yet

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

I recently bought a keg of Denver Pale Ale and the Store told me that if I did not return it in 30 days they keep my deposit and the keg is mine

Which store is this, Argonaut? I am sure GD would love to know who is selling their kegs for the $30 deposit (assuming it's $30, which many in CO are).

 

[SumnerH]

He means "stealing (according to the law)", NOT "stealing (but legal)", Mr. Hawking

Thanks.

It's pretty obvious to everyone involved what's going on--simply yelling "Yo dude, score!" is a pretty good indicator that you know you "pulled something off". If you think stealing isn't a moral issue, that's up to you; personally, I couldn't live with it.

Or, more to the point, just go explain to the cops what you did. If you really believe it's legal, then going and telling the authorities shouldn't bug you. If you think that it'd get you into hot water, that should be a pretty good indicator that whatever your HBT bluster is, you know you're committing a crime.

 

[gunner65]

Thanks.

It's pretty obvious to everyone involved what's going on--simply yelling "Yo dude, score!" is a pretty good indicator that you know you "pulled something off". If you think stealing isn't a moral issue, that's up to you; personally, I couldn't live with it.

Or, more to the point, just go explain to the cops what you did. If you really believe it's legal, then going and telling the authorities shouldn't bug you. If you think that it'd get you into hot water, that should be a pretty good indicator that whatever your HBT bluster is, you know you're committing a crime.

What is up with all the moral authority? Get over it. I think that the first documentary I ever saw about DFH I saw Sam brewing on a 3 keg system. I wonder, did he acquire his first kegs legit?

 

[SumnerH]

What is up with all the moral authority?

What moral authority? I explicitly left the moral decisionmaking up to you--that's why I said "If you think stealing isn't a moral issue, that's up to you; personally, I couldn't live with it." if you're cool with stealing, have at it! I'm not gonna set your morals.

The legal authority is pretty clear (and legally, it is stealing), but decide the morals on your own.

 

[gunner65]

What moral authority? I explicitly left the moral decisionmaking up to you--that's why I said "If you think stealing isn't a moral issue, that's up to you; personally, I couldn't live with it." if you're cool with stealing, have at it! I'm not gonna set your morals.

The legal authority is pretty clear (and legally, it is stealing), but decide the morals on your own.

No by making such a big deal of it makes it a moral issue for you. You are getting preachy.

 

[Whut]

I was "crackin' wise" with my earlier response. As for the OP, I leave him/her to their own conscience. As for the rest of you, can you walk on water? (I can't)

Debate on!

 

[SumnerH]

No by making such a big deal of it makes it a moral issue for you.

The fact that you're turning to someone else and saying "hey man, you're preaching!" instead of being comfortable talking to the person/company that got ripped off is a pretty good sign that you know it's theft.

But the ultimate morality of the theft is up to you and your particular circumstances. Personally I don't usually believe in theft, but there are always shades of grey. If I had to steal a loaf of bread for my starving family from a billionaire to keep them alive, I'd be okay with that morally (even though it is theft). Stealing a keg from a middling brewery that hasn't done anything wrong strikes me personally as a bad thing, but ultimately that's up to the person who does it and what their circumstances are.

What I don't like is the attempt to say it's not stealing because you left a deposit with someone; that's just self-delusion. It is theft, and any cop or court will gladly point that out. Accept that, stop pointing fingers at people who point it out to you, and decide what you can live with.

 

[passedpawn]

Sometimes I'm a saint, performing good-samaritan deeds and other saintly acts anonymously.

And, sometimes (perhaps 3 times) I'm a thief.

Wish I was perfect, saintly. But I fail occasionally. I'm in that gray area, I guess. Ho hum.

 

[gunner65]

I was "crackin' wise" with my earlier response. As for the OP, I leave him/her to their own conscience. As for the rest of you, can you walk on water? (I can't)

Debate on!

Bingo!

 

[gunner65]

Shades of gray thats funny.

 

[emjay]

I originally brought up the legality issue and even went so far to say that I don't really care what you ultimately do... as stated, I was pointing out the fact it was illegal in case the OP wasn't aware so that he could make an informed decision.

However, after reading the subsequent posts, it's pretty hilarious that the people all for it are getting far more indignant over the issue than even the most morally authoritative of posters. The whole "informed decision" was obviously a crapshoot anyways as rather than just accepting they're stealing and being okay with it, it seems people make themselves feel better about stealing through sheer wilful ignorance.

 

[Airborneguy]

I can guarantee everyone, that at least in my state, it is not theft to keep the keg. Theft would be going to a beer distributor at night and physically stealing kegs without paying for them. If the keg is acquired legally, with a deposit paid, and that keg is then kept, it is not a reportable theft.

 

[BrewFrisco]

I can guarantee everyone, that at least in my state, it is not theft to keep the keg. Theft would be going to a beer distributor at night and physically stealing kegs without paying for them. If the keg is acquired legally, with a deposit paid, and that keg is then kept, it is not a reportable theft.

amen...

 

[Airborneguy]

...and my qualifications are that I am the guy who reviews all the crime reports in a particular precinct to make sure they were all written properly and have the proper legal classification.

 

[kpr121]

...and my qualifications are that I am the guy who reviews all the crime reports in a particular precinct to make sure they were all written properly and have the proper legal classification.

Interesting. Is the keg still the property of the brewery/distributor?

So its not theft, but if you cut the top off, is it destruction of property?

 

[mixedbrewer]

Now I want to steal and destroy stuff.

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

Next time I rent a apt, I think I'll just keep it....hell, I paid a deposit!

 

[BrewFrisco]

Interesting. Is the keg still the property of the brewery/distributor?

So its not theft, but if you cut the top off, is it destruction of property?

I am sitting here thinking real hard about how this would even go down!

Here is how the bust would go down...

Ring..ring..ring
-911 "Hello, 911 how can I assist you?"
-Liquor Store "Yes, I am Mr. G, I own Mr. G's beverage center in Texas... I sold a gentleman a keg of some fine DFH90 about 6 months ago...and I am calling because my customer still has not returned my keg shell."
-911 "Well Mr. G - that is just CRAZY!!! (Background sounds: come-in 12 - do you copy....12 go ahead.....yes 12 can you go to Mr. G's in Texas...we have a report of a possible theft of a keg shell of Dog-fish90 - customer did not return his keg after 6 months)
-Officer "Dog-Fish 90 huh? ....that is some damn good beer...OK...im on my way - over"
-911 "Sir, our officer will be right over.
Hour 1 passes
Hour 2 passes
Hour 3 passes
etc...
48 Hours passes
1 Week Passes
Ring...ring..ring...
-911 "Hello, 911 how can I assist you?"
-Liquor Store "Yes, I am Mr. G, I own Mr. G's beverage center in Texas...I called last week and an officer was supposed to come out and launch an investigation of a possible missing keg shell"
-911 Silence..
-Liquor Store "Hello...Hello...??"
-911 dial tone......

 

[BrewFrisco]

Next time I rent a apt, I think I'll just keep it....hell, I paid a deposit!

Different type of deposit! Nice try but not even the same analogy.

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

Your right it is apples v oranges, but isn't the bottom line of a deposit "I'll give you x dollars so you know that I will return this item in the same shape I received it"

 

[Airborneguy]

Your right it is apples v oranges, but isn't the bottom line of a deposit "I'll give you x dollars so you know that I will return this item in the same shape I received it"

Your bottom line is correct, but the difference is this type of deposit exists to hopefully compel the borrower to return property which is being put into their control in a much different manner than one takes control of an apartment. Real Estate laws are much more involved because real estate is treated as a different type of legal property than everything else we own, including vehicles. For example, you cannot burglarize a vehicle in most cases, but you can burglarize an apartment or home.

A keg is nothing more than packaging for a product. The deposit exists to compel the consumer to return the packaging because said packaging is expensive, but legally, a keg has no legal status beyond that of a bottle or can: it is a package.

You can steal a keg of course, but that would only apply under the normal understanding of theft: I remove it from the rear of a distribution center/brewery as they are off-loading them, I stick a gun in the face of the clerk and demand one, etc.

But again, keeping a keg legally acquired to transport beer to your home is not stealing, at least in NY.

 

[mixedbrewer]

An apartment is a container for a person, owned by someone else... the deposit is to encourage you to return it in the same shape as when you received it.

A keg is a container for beer, owned by someone else... the deposit is to encourage you to return it in the same shape as when you received it.

Its the same concept.

 

[saluki_brewer]

An apartment deposit is to discourage you from damaging someone else's property.

A deposit on a keg is to encourage you to return someone else's property.

So, if I have damaged my apartment and don't fix it knowing that this will forfeit my deposit, am I a criminal?

 

[mixedbrewer]

If you cut the roof off , you are...