Decoction?

[Brewhemoth]

Hey guys. Doing a maerzen today and was wondering two things:
1: is the decoction REALLY necessary. I have read mixed reviews woth some saying it makes very little difference. Could u get the the same character by slightly altering malt bills?

2: using weyermanns bohemian pils, is there any real benefit in doing a protein rest or could I just do infusion straight to 64-68C?

 

[Bensiff]

For all intents and purposes with the highly modified malts we use you do not need a protein rest or decoction. There is evidence that a protein rest will help with chill haze; however, I get plenty of very clear beers without using a protein rest so I would only use a protein rest if I seem to be fighting chill haze on a particular recipe. Over on the Northern Brewer forum Denny has a pdf that shows an experiment with decoction where multiple brewers did side by side batches that were exactly the same other than one was decocted and the other not. The end result was that tasting panels had a very slight preference for the decocted beer, the decocted beer was slightly maltier, and the single infusion had slightly more body. So that goes with what folks commonly say about decoction, it makes for a slightly more malty beer. I personally wouldn't waste time doing something like adding melanoidin to attempt to mimic a decoction, there isn't much evidence it will get what you want.

Here is what I would do, brew the beer doing a single infusion. If it came out with chill haze the next time I would do a protein rest. If I wanted it to be maltier I would try a decoction the next time.

 

[Brewhemoth]

Sweet! Thanks... That is more or less what my understanding was. I will do a protein rest (in case) and then an infusion to 66C (or do you think maybe higher/lower?). Going to do mash out either by doing I 1/3 decoction or simply direct heat. Not decided yet.

Thanks again!

 

[Denny]

Don't do a protein rest...it's unnecessary and can be detrimental.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Are you using the floor-malted, or just the regular BoPils malt? Some folks say the floor malted is under-modified, but the Weyermann spec sheets show little evidence of that. I've found infusion mashes of this work fine, with no down sides. I just experimented with doing a triple infusion with that, so we'll see what happens.

 

[Brewhemoth]

i'll give a proper update after work if my review of notes suggest that it is merited. I did the protein rest and then infusion to 64C (little lower than i wanted but fine).

why could/would the protein rest be detrimental?

 

[pjj2ba]

Don't do a protein rest...it's unnecessary and can be detrimental.

Aw c'mon, let the man do a protein rest I'm a protein rest guy, and with my set up, it gives me great results. That being said, I realize this is not for everyone.

A couple of points about why it works for me.

A. I primarly use pilsner malt as the base for all my beers
B. I brew a lot of lagers or similar (Alt and Kolsch)
C. With my rig, it is easy to do (I'm comfortable with the process - ie, no errors)

I DO NOT do a protein rest for clarity issues. I'm after creating a few more extra small protein that give me a little boost in body and head formation/stability. My beers having rockin' heads. Again, I'm talking about for golden lagers around 5% ABV where a little extra body is noticeable and makes a big difference (to me). I think this helps to give my beers that extra little something. I could tweak my grain bills a bit to do this, but I'm a process kinda guy and I like a simple recipe and it gives me the flavors *I* want, which is what it is all about.

Now to be a bit hypocritical, when it comes to my CZ pils, I don't use a decoction, I tweak the grain bill (recipe under my avatar). To mimic a decotion, I add some home toasted malt and aromatic malt for flavor, and then a pinch of oatmeal for a little extra body/thickness.

Again, I don't think the differences are large, just that tiny little something that make you like it a little bit more than another version.

It is not for everyone and for many it is not worth it.

 

[pjj2ba]

i'll give a proper update after work if my review of notes suggest that it is merited. I did the protein rest and then infusion to 64C (little lower than i wanted but fine).

why could/would the protein rest be detrimental?

If you rest for too long you can break down too many of the proteins that are important for the body of a beer, and also head formation/retention resulting in a thin beer.

To me this just highlights the importance of protein in a beer. Most folks don't mess with it, and focus on saccharification temperature to alter the body of a beer. By anology it is like only using the coarse adjustment (mash temp.) on a microscope. Yes you can sometimes get a nice sharp image this way, but if you also use the fine focus (protein rest) you can really dial in the image.

It is a little bit of a tight rope walk though, and again, not for everyone

 

[Denny]

why could/would the protein rest be detrimental?

If done incorrectly or with the wrong malt, it can kill the head and body of your beer.

 

[Brewhemoth]

Well damn. I did about 20% pils and the rest split between Vienna and Munich so I guess it was not warranted. Hope the yea doesn't suffer too much cos with the modest amount of low alpha hop in there I don't think I can rely on those to support the head either. Bummer