Decoction mashing with cooler or pot?

[blackstrat5]

I am planning on doing my first decoction mash tomorrow for a hefe. I'm starting at 112 at 0.75 qt/lb. Then pulling a 40% decoction to raise the mash to 147. Then raising to 158. Then again mashing out.

Now is 0.75 qt/lb a little thick to be pulling from for a decoction? Or does that make a difference (I know I'm supposed to be pulling the thick part of the mash).

Also, I was going to use my cooler and infusion steps to raise the mash temp rests (other than the decoction step). But, would I be better off sticking with mashing in a kettle and applying heat from a burner every so often to keep the rest temperatures and step without infusions? Or would you recommended keeping with the cooler idea.

The recipe is from Stan Hieronymus' book "brewing with wheat".

 

[hamiltont]

I do a decoction for each step so my mash in is 1.5:1. For the mash out I pull a thin decoction. You're saying you're just pulling one decoction and stepping it after that? If you choose to use a decoction for each step be sure to rest it for at least 20 minutes at each step before boiling it. For example for the first decoction: After your mash has set for at least 20 min @ 112 pull the decoction and raise the temp to 147 & hold for at least 20 min. Then raise it to 158 and hold for at least 20 min. Then boil for at least 20 min. Have boiling water handy in case you undershoot your next step in the cooler. If you hit your next step and still have boiling decoction left just stop and stir the decoction until the temp reaches your target step & then add it. I hope this all makes sense. Cheers!!!

 

[blackstrat5]

Sorry. No I'm pulling one decoction, boiling it (after a 15 minute sacc rest). And adding it back to the main mash to raise it from 112 to 147. Then step mashing the main mash from 147 to 158. Then step mashing that for mash-out. If I stuck with the cooler the step mash they would have to be infusions.

My question is whether to stick with the cooler, or attempt to mash in a kettle while playing with a burner to keep the mash temp and raise to the steps.

 

[hamiltont]

Cooler IMO. I wouldn't recommend boiling it right away though. You still need to step the decoction.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Keep your main mash in the cooler. You should hit your temperatures as long as you pull the proper volume for the decoctions.

Most importantly, do not panic when you add the decoction back in and it's not immediately the right temperature. Especially for the rise to 147. You need to stir, stir, stir before you try to check the temperature. At least five minutes of continuous stirring. Then check the temperature. Otherwise you have a mash that's too warm in some parts and too cool in others and depending on where the thermometer goes you'll either try to cool or heat the mash when it doesn't need it.

 

[Rev2010]

Since you are decocting there is no reason to start out so thick, you want the enzymes in the liquid in the mash tun and to boil a portion of the wet grains. I'd start with a little under the usual water to grain ratio to leave room for hot water infusions in case you need to compensate, which is common when new to decoctions. Maybe say 1 quart per pound of grain.


Rev.

 

[VladOfTrub]

Becareful when you start to heat the decoction. It's easy to scorch the mash at the bottom of the kettle. Stir to keep the grain from scorching.

 

[blackstrat5]

Thanks for all of the advice. Ill see how it goes tomorrow on my first attempt. Hopefully it'll be an awesome hefe in a couple of weeks or so.

 

[blackstrat5]

Did the mash today and it was just a mess. Single infusions have become easy fir me, consistently hitting temps. This was another critter.

So I pulled the 40% decoction. Brought that to 158. Held it there for 15 minutes while stirring. Then brought it to boiling for 20. Now I took the thickest part of the mash for the decoction. When it was done boiling it was really thick, like no liquid thick. I turned off the burner and added it back to the main mash one ladle at a time stirring between every scoop.

Now my goal was to bring it from 112 to 147 with the decoction addition. It brought it from 112 (I measured before adding the decoction) to 125! So I ended up having to add to boiling water infusions to get it up to 145. That took 20 minutes. The I let it set for 20 at 145. Before adding my last addition to rest at 160 for another 20. Needless to say the mash ph spiked to 6.0 after adding infusions to get it 145.

What happened with the decoction not bringing the temp up? And how much of a risk am I running of tannin extraction? Thanks.

 

[weirdboy]

Well adding one scoop at a time and stirring in between probably was the culprit. You're essentially letting both sides cool off while you're doing that process, which I imagine takes quite a while. Do like you would for tempering eggs...add 1/3 of the decoction, stir a bit, then add the rest and stir it in.


Tannins shouldn't be an issue unless your mash pH was wildly wrong, like over 7 or 8.

 

[blackstrat5]

By the description I had for the thickness of the decoction, do you think its possible it was too thick, preventing it from having enough thermal mass to raise the temp of the main mash. On top of letting them both cool while wedding it slowly?

 

[hamiltont]

If the decoction gets too thick just add a bit more wort to it. It should be "oatmeal" like consistency.

I usually pull more than needed for the decoction to make sure I hit the next step. What's left can be cooled to match that step. As mentioned, adding a ladle at a time & stirring caused your temp loss. I pour at least 75% or the decoction back into the mash immediately, Stir the mash well, check the temp and then adjust accordingly. Cheers!!!

 

[blackstrat5]

Thanks, ill try adding like you prescribed. I guess next time ill pull a bit more than an needed to ensure I have enough to bring it to the next step.

 

[SouthBay]

You can calculate the amount of decoction needed to reach each temp at any thickness, using the calculations in How To Brew.

However, I suggest beersmith to save you some time.

In my decoctions, I always pull 20% more than required, and frequently add water to the boiling decoction to aid in maintaining consistency. Also,i agree with dumping the decoction back in mostly all at once.

 

[blackstrat5]

I used beersmith for the calcs. But I will def try to pull over what is calculated to be needed. And ill add some wort from the main mash to keep the decoction consistency if it gets too thick. Or would adding water to the decoction for that purpose be a better decision?

 

[hamiltont]

I use wort but I don't believe it really matters that much since it's a small amount. If you haven't read this it's a good read for decoction mashing. BrauKaiser Decoction Mashing Cheers!!!

 

[Rev2010]

Well adding one scoop at a time and stirring in between probably was the culprit. You're essentially letting both sides cool off while you're doing that process

^^^ This right here, did you really add only one "ladle" at a time?? When I did my double decoction I dumped in like 66% of the pot, when the temp still didn't hit I added the rest. It got me close but I had to use a bit of boiling water infusion to get within my planned temp range. I don't care what anyone says, the recommended calculations and calculators out there can never be relied upon to hit temps 100% exactly each time, so it's always good to have adjustment water on hand - though I do always seem to hit my strike temps exactly each time with my calcs.

Here's hoping your beer still comes out kick-ass! .... which it probably will


Rev.

 

[blackstrat5]

^^^ This right here, did you really add only one "ladle" at a time?? When I did my double decoction I dumped in like 66% of the pot, when the temp still didn't hit I added the rest. It got me close but I had to use a bit of boiling water infusion to get within my planned temp range. I don't care what anyone says, the recommended calculations and calculators out there can never be relied upon to hit temps 100% exactly each time, so it's always good to have adjustment water on hand - though I do always seem to hit my strike temps exactly each time with my calcs.

Here's hoping your beer still comes out kick-ass! .... which it probably will

Rev.

Hah, yes one ladle at a time. I think I misunderstood when I watched brewtv's decoction episode. He added the decoction, I thought, one ladle at a time as to not overshoot his step temp. So I did that but I guess I lost a lot.of heat pretty quick.

Hopefully the beer does come out alright..it smelled good. Ill give it that. I'm going ti try and brew this again. I'd really like to get more comfortable with the decoction technique. Besides I feel like I learned quite a bit from today's "horror".