Decoction mash

[vincemike]

Hello all I’m Relatively new to all grain brewing,, I found a Pilsner recipe that I would like to brew.
the recipe includes mash guidelines
1.6 qt. 122f. 20. Minutes
1.5 qt. 145 f. 40 minutes
1.6 qt. 155 f. 20 minutes
My questions
What quantity of grain do I start with and water quantity ?
for all steps
Total grain 11.50 lb Pilsner
.25 lb acidulated malt

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Welcome to all grain brewing.

Based on your questions, I am guessing that you may be biting off more than you can chew. You may want to get a little more experience under your belt with single infusion mashes rather than doing a rather complicated decoction mash - especially a double or triple decoction. Many brewers add 2-4% melanoiden malt to replicate the flavor you would get from a decoction and create amazing Czech Pilsners.

What quantity of grain do I start with and water quantity ?

You start with all the grain. The amount of water in the initial infusion is dependent on your target mash thickness (qts/lb). For decoction mashes, the mash thickness is usually very thin (1.75 - 2) as you will be pulling decoctions of thick mash, boiling them, then adding them back to raise the mash temperature to the next level. Additional water is not added to 100% decoction mashes. So for 11.75lbs of grain, at a mash thickness of 2, you would add the grain to 23.5 quarts of water.

For single infusion mashes, again you start with all the grain, but the mash thickness target is usually a little thicker, typically between (1.25 - 1.75). So for 11.75 lbs of grain you would add it to about 17.6 quarts of water.

1.6 qt. 122f. 20. Minutes
1.5 qt. 145 f. 40 minutes
1.6 qt. 155 f. 20 minutes

Theses quantities confuse me without knowing other details about the recipe - batch size, preboil volume, etc. They could be decoction sizes, but they are very small given the quantity of grain and batch size the grains imply.

Below is a decoction schedule I built in my program based on the rest temperatures you provided, a 5 gallon batch size, and my system (system factors not shown). As you will see it is quite complicated. I suggest you do a single infusion mash at 152 and 17.6 quarts of water, prior to attempting one of the most complex mash schedules possible.

Finally, below is a snapshot of the single infusion brew day based on your recipe and some assumptions, It provides everything you need to know. Note, it is based on my system, so it the systems inputs would need to be adjusted to reflect your system and actual recipe parameters. You can find a generic version of the program here...https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vyt6v8pj4y5yrv/Buildabeer%20v6.4DB.xlsm?dl=0

 

[vincemike]

Welcome to all grain brewing.

Based on your questions, I am guessing that you may be biting off more than you can chew. You may want to get a little more experience under your belt with single infusion mashes rather than doing a rather complicated decoction mash - especially a double or triple decoction. Many brewers add 2-4% melanoiden malt to replicate the flavor you would get from a decoction and create amazing Czech Pilsners.


You start with all the grain. The amount of water in the initial infusion is dependent on your target mash thickness (qts/lb). For decoction mashes, the mash thickness is usually very thin (1.75 - 2) as you will be pulling decoctions of thick mash, boiling them, then adding them back to raise the mash temperature to the next level. Additional water is not added to 100% decoction mashes. So for 11.75lbs of grain, at a mash thickness of 2, you would add the grain to 23.5 quarts of water.

For single infusion mashes, again you start with all the grain, but the mash thickness target is usually a little thicker, typically between (1.25 - 1.75). So for 11.75 lbs of grain you would add it to about 17.6 quarts of water.


Theses quantities confuse me without knowing other details about the recipe - batch size, preboil volume, etc. They could be decoction sizes, but they are very small given the quantity of grain and batch size the grains imply.

Below is a decoction schedule I built in my program based on the rest temperatures you provided, a 5 gallon batch size, and my system (system factors not shown). As you will see it is quite complicated. I suggest you do a single infusion mash at 152 and 17.6 quarts of water, prior to attempting one of the most complex mash schedules possible.

Finally, below is a snapshot of the single infusion brew day based on your recipe and some assumptions, It provides everything you need to know. Note, it is based on my system, so it the systems inputs would need to be adjusted to reflect your system and actual recipe parameters. You can find a generic version of the program here...https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vyt6v8pj4y5yrv/Buildabeer%20v6.4DB.xlsm?dl=0

View attachment 706065
View attachment 706064
View attachment 706068
View attachment 706067

Welcome to all grain brewing.

Based on your questions, I am guessing that you may be biting off more than you can chew. You may want to get a little more experience under your belt with single infusion mashes rather than doing a rather complicated decoction mash - especially a double or triple decoction. Many brewers add 2-4% melanoiden malt to replicate the flavor you would get from a decoction and create amazing Czech Pilsners.


You start with all the grain. The amount of water in the initial infusion is dependent on your target mash thickness (qts/lb). For decoction mashes, the mash thickness is usually very thin (1.75 - 2) as you will be pulling decoctions of thick mash, boiling them, then adding them back to raise the mash temperature to the next level. Additional water is not added to 100% decoction mashes. So for 11.75lbs of grain, at a mash thickness of 2, you would add the grain to 23.5 quarts of water.

For single infusion mashes, again you start with all the grain, but the mash thickness target is usually a little thicker, typically between (1.25 - 1.75). So for 11.75 lbs of grain you would add it to about 17.6 quarts of water.


Theses quantities confuse me without knowing other details about the recipe - batch size, preboil volume, etc. They could be decoction sizes, but they are very small given the quantity of grain and batch size the grains imply.

Below is a decoction schedule I built in my program based on the rest temperatures you provided, a 5 gallon batch size, and my system (system factors not shown). As you will see it is quite complicated. I suggest you do a single infusion mash at 152 and 17.6 quarts of water, prior to attempting one of the most complex mash schedules possible.

Finally, below is a snapshot of the single infusion brew day based on your recipe and some assumptions, It provides everything you need to know. Note, it is based on my system, so it the systems inputs would need to be adjusted to reflect your system and actual recipe parameters. You can find a generic version of the program here...https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vyt6v8pj4y5yrv/Buildabeer%20v6.4DB.xlsm?dl=0

View attachment 706065
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[/QUOTE]

Thank you Holden

 

[vincemike]

Thank you Holden
[/QUOTE]


I have been trying to send you my brew sheet .I am not able to send it on the site
Last night I found articles on Decoction mashing and a video . I have a much better understanding of the process. You are correct I should try a single

Thank you Holden
[/QUOTE]

Welcome to all grain brewing.

Based on your questions, I am guessing that you may be biting off more than you can chew. You may want to get a little more experience under your belt with single infusion mashes rather than doing a rather complicated decoction mash - especially a double or triple decoction. Many brewers add 2-4% melanoiden malt to replicate the flavor you would get from a decoction and create amazing Czech Pilsners.


You start with all the grain. The amount of water in the initial infusion is dependent on your target mash thickness (qts/lb). For decoction mashes, the mash thickness is usually very thin (1.75 - 2) as you will be pulling decoctions of thick mash, boiling them, then adding them back to raise the mash temperature to the next level. Additional water is not added to 100% decoction mashes. So for 11.75lbs of grain, at a mash thickness of 2, you would add the grain to 23.5 quarts of water.

For single infusion mashes, again you start with all the grain, but the mash thickness target is usually a little thicker, typically between (1.25 - 1.75). So for 11.75 lbs of grain you would add it to about 17.6 quarts of water.


Thank you Holden

Theses quantities confuse me without knowing other details about the recipe - batch size, preboil volume, etc. They could be decoction sizes, but they are very small given the quantity of grain and batch size the grains imply.

Below is a decoction schedule I built in my program based on the rest temperatures you provided, a 5 gallon batch size, and my system (system factors not shown). As you will see it is quite complicated. I suggest you do a single infusion mash at 152 and 17.6 quarts of water, prior to attempting one of the most complex mash schedules possible.

Finally, below is a snapshot of the single infusion brew day based on your recipe and some assumptions, It provides everything you need to know. Note, it is based on my system, so it the systems inputs would need to be adjusted to reflect your system and actual recipe parameters. You can find a generic version of the program here...https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vyt6v8pj4y5yrv/Buildabeer%20v6.4DB.xlsm?dl=0

View attachment 706065
View attachment 706064
View attachment 706068
View attachment 706067
[/QUOTE]

Hello all I’m Relatively new to all grain brewing,, I found a Pilsner recipe that I would like to brew.
the recipe includes mash guidelines
1.6 qt. 122f. 20. Minutes
1.5 qt. 145 f. 40 minutes
1.6 qt. 155 f. 20 minutes
My questions
What quantity of grain do I start with and water quantity ?
for all steps
Total grain 11.50 lb Pilsner
.25 lb acidulated malt

Welcome to all grain brewing.

Based on your questions, I am guessing that you may be biting off more than you can chew. You may want to get a little more experience under your belt with single infusion mashes rather than doing a rather complicated decoction mash - especially a double or triple decoction. Many brewers add 2-4% melanoiden malt to replicate the flavor you would get from a decoction and create amazing Czech Pilsners.


You start with all the grain. The amount of water in the initial infusion is dependent on your target mash thickness (qts/lb). For decoction mashes, the mash thickness is usually very thin (1.75 - 2) as you will be pulling decoctions of thick mash, boiling them, then adding them back to raise the mash temperature to the next level. Additional water is not added to 100% decoction mashes. So for 11.75lbs of grain, at a mash thickness of 2, you would add the grain to 23.5 quarts of water.

For single infusion mashes, again you start with all the grain, but the mash thickness target is usually a little thicker, typically between (1.25 - 1.75). So for 11.75 lbs of grain you would add it to about 17.6 quarts of water.


Theses quantities confuse me without knowing other details about the recipe - batch size, preboil volume, etc. They could be decoction sizes, but they are very small given the quantity of grain and batch size the grains imply.

Below is a decoction schedule I built in my program based on the rest temperatures you provided, a 5 gallon batch size, and my system (system factors not shown). As you will see it is quite complicated. I suggest you do a single infusion mash at 152 and 17.6 quarts of water, prior to attempting one of the most complex mash schedules possible.

Finally, below is a snapshot of the single infusion brew day based on your recipe and some assumptions, It provides everything you need to know. Note, it is based on my system, so it the systems inputs would need to be adjusted to reflect your system and actual recipe parameters. You can find a generic version of the program here...https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vyt6v8pj4y5yrv/Buildabeer%20v6.4DB.xlsm?dl=0

View attachment 706065
View attachment 706064
View attachment 706068
View attachment 706067

Thank you Holden
[/QUOTE]

Last night I found articles on decoction mashing and a video .I have a much better understanding of this process, you are correct I should do a single infusion mash . I tried to send you my brew sheet for this recipe but am unable to send it on this sight . I would need an email.
I printed out what you sent me but the print is too small .
My email is [email protected]
I very much appreciate your help

 

[bracconiere]

Welcome to all grain brewing.

Based on your questions, I am guessing that you may be biting off more than you can chew. You may want to get a little more experience under your belt with single infusion mashes rather than doing a rather complicated decoction mash - especially a double or triple decoction. Many brewers add 2-4% melanoiden malt to replicate the flavor you would get from a decoction and create amazing Czech Pilsners.


You start with all the grain. The amount of water in the initial infusion is dependent on your target mash thickness (qts/lb). For decoction mashes, the mash thickness is usually very thin (1.75 - 2) as you will be pulling decoctions of thick mash, boiling them, then adding them back to raise the mash temperature to the next level. Additional water is not added to 100% decoction mashes. So for 11.75lbs of grain, at a mash thickness of 2, you would add the grain to 23.5 quarts of water.

For single infusion mashes, again you start with all the grain, but the mash thickness target is usually a little thicker, typically between (1.25 - 1.75). So for 11.75 lbs of grain you would add it to about 17.6 quarts of water.


Theses quantities confuse me without knowing other details about the recipe - batch size, preboil volume, etc. They could be decoction sizes, but they are very small given the quantity of grain and batch size the grains imply.

Below is a decoction schedule I built in my program based on the rest temperatures you provided, a 5 gallon batch size, and my system (system factors not shown). As you will see it is quite complicated. I suggest you do a single infusion mash at 152 and 17.6 quarts of water, prior to attempting one of the most complex mash schedules possible.

Finally, below is a snapshot of the single infusion brew day based on your recipe and some assumptions, It provides everything you need to know. Note, it is based on my system, so it the systems inputs would need to be adjusted to reflect your system and actual recipe parameters. You can find a generic version of the program here...https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vyt6v8pj4y5yrv/Buildabeer%20v6.4DB.xlsm?dl=0

View attachment 706065
View attachment 706064
View attachment 706068
View attachment 706067

i was going to say 155 seems low for a second step and shoot for 162. and to use thermometer and stir it in and check the temp. add more or less to hit your temp.

next reply, i got punched in the face! (not sure if my simple way helps)

 

[vincemike]

i was going to say 155 seems low for a second step and shoot for 162. and to use thermometer and stir it in and check the temp. add more or less to hit your temp.

next reply, i got punched in the face! (not sure if my simple way helps)

This is the only way I could send it
Thank you

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Recipe plan looks good. Czech Pils are may favorite beers. My only thoughts...

• Do a single infusion around 152 for 60 mins. Adding 2% Melanoidin malt may provide a little decoction flavor (it's like a very very dark Munich malt (28L)
• Still confused about the qts next to the rest temperatures - perhaps those are the mash thicknesses of the decoction which are slightly thicker than the mash. Just ignore them as you will be doing a single infusion
• 1.75 mash thickness is just fine. Somewhat thin, but it should give you better heat retention and more consistent temp throughout the mash.
• 2% acidulated malt with that water profile and grain bill will probably give you a PH in the 5.55 range, which is a little high. I would recommend 3.5%. You may want to verify with Brun Water or Mash Made Easy. Both very good PH calculators.
• You probably won't be able to find all those whole hops, also, whole hops require a little more management, so I suggest you use pellet
• Pellet hops alpha acids (bittering) and other flavor/aroma acids and oils are a little more concentrated then whole, so use 10% less, or toggle pellet if you are using a program
• Make sure you update the hops alpha acids % to see if there is an significant impact on IBU. Don't change the quantities of the 30,20,10 minute additions, just adjust the 60 min addition quantity as alpha acid % and the other compounds aren't necessarily correlated (at least that is what I have read, but have never seen data to support)
• 46 IBU is quite bitter. It is at the upper end of the style guidelines so you may want to tone down to 35ish, unless you like very bitter beer. Note, it is said that the soft water tends to smooth out bitterness which is why Pilsner Urquell does not taste so bitter despite being high IBU
• The boil rate is 1.5 gallons / hour, which is very high in my opinion. You may want to adjust the rate (which will impact your preboil volume) or be ready to put the spurs to the kettle to boil off the 2.25 gallons. I target around 1 gallon / hour. Here is a video on what different boils look like. 1 gallon / hour looks like level 2.5 to 3 for 5 gallon batch size boils.

Good luck.

 

[vincemike]

Recipe plan looks good. Czech Pils are may favorite beers. My only thoughts...

• Do a single infusion around 152 for 60 mins. Adding 2% Melanoidin malt may provide a little decoction flavor (it's like a very very dark Munich malt (28L)
• Still confused about the qts next to the rest temperatures - perhaps those are the mash thicknesses of the decoction which are slightly thicker than the mash. Just ignore them as you will be doing a single infusion
• 1.75 mash thickness is just fine. Somewhat thin, but it should give you better heat retention and more consistent temp throughout the mash.
• 2% acidulated malt with that water profile and grain bill will probably give you a PH in the 5.55 range, which is a little high. I would recommend 3.5%. You may want to verify with Brun Water or Mash Made Easy. Both very good PH calculators.
• You probably won't be able to find all those whole hops, also, whole hops require a little more management, so I suggest you use pellet
• Pellet hops alpha acids (bittering) and other flavor/aroma acids and oils are a little more concentrated then whole, so use 10% less, or toggle pellet if you are using a program
• Make sure you update the hops alpha acids % to see if there is an significant impact on IBU. Don't change the quantities of the 30,20,10 minute additions, just adjust the 60 min addition quantity as alpha acid % and the other compounds aren't necessarily correlated (at least that is what I have read, but have never seen data to support)
• 46 IBU is quite bitter. It is at the upper end of the style guidelines so you may want to tone down to 35ish, unless you like very bitter beer. Note, it is said that the soft water tends to smooth out bitterness which is why Pilsner Urquell does not taste so bitter despite being high IBU
• The boil rate is 1.5 gallons / hour, which is very high in my opinion. You may want to adjust the rate (which will impact your preboil volume) or be ready to put the spurs to the kettle to boil off the 2.25 gallons. I target around 1 gallon / hour. Here is a video on what different boils look like. 1 gallon / hour looks like level 2.5 to 3 for 5 gallon batch size boils.

Good luck.

Recipe plan looks good. Czech Pils are may favorite beers. My only thoughts...

• Do a single infusion around 152 for 60 mins. Adding 2% Melanoidin malt may provide a little decoction flavor (it's like a very very dark Munich malt (28L)
• Still confused about the qts next to the rest temperatures - perhaps those are the mash thicknesses of the decoction which are slightly thicker than the mash. Just ignore them as you will be doing a single infusion
• 1.75 mash thickness is just fine. Somewhat thin, but it should give you better heat retention and more consistent temp throughout the mash.
• 2% acidulated malt with that water profile and grain bill will probably give you a PH in the 5.55 range, which is a little high. I would recommend 3.5%. You may want to verify with Brun Water or Mash Made Easy. Both very good PH calculators.
• You probably won't be able to find all those whole hops, also, whole hops require a little more management, so I suggest you use pellet
• Pellet hops alpha acids (bittering) and other flavor/aroma acids and oils are a little more concentrated then whole, so use 10% less, or toggle pellet if you are using a program
• Make sure you update the hops alpha acids % to see if there is an significant impact on IBU. Don't change the quantities of the 30,20,10 minute additions, just adjust the 60 min addition quantity as alpha acid % and the other compounds aren't necessarily correlated (at least that is what I have read, but have never seen data to support)
• 46 IBU is quite bitter. It is at the upper end of the style guidelines so you may want to tone down to 35ish, unless you like very bitter beer. Note, it is said that the soft water tends to smooth out bitterness which is why Pilsner Urquell does not taste so bitter despite being high IBU
• The boil rate is 1.5 gallons / hour, which is very high in my opinion. You may want to adjust the rate (which will impact your preboil volume) or be ready to put the spurs to the kettle to boil off the 2.25 gallons. I target around 1 gallon / hour. Here is a video on what different boils look like. 1 gallon / hour looks like level 2.5 to 3 for 5 gallon batch size boils.

Good luck.

Thanks for your in-site
As the recipe above shows the IBU at
46.25
I used the IBU calculator and it was
29.40 with the alpha acids that are on the hop packaging

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Thanks for your in-site
As the recipe above shows the IBU at
46.25
I used the IBU calculator and it was
29.40 with the alpha acids that are on the hop packaging

You always have to add the AA% of the actual hops you're using, so you need to adjust the hop amount to match the desired IBUs

 

[VikeMan]

Thanks for your in-site
As the recipe above shows the IBU at
46.25
I used the IBU calculator and it was
29.40 with the alpha acids that are on the hop packaging

As mentioned, when your hops' AA% are different from what the recipe assumes, you need to adjust the hop amount(s) to hit your IBU target. What I normally do is hold the late hop quantities constant and adjust the early bittering hops to hit the target.