Debating on kegging.

[Redpappy]

im about 6 months before I have the funds, but I’m doing research now and wanting other people’s thoughts.
I’m not sure what the best approach would be, to piece everything together or to buy a kit from a store. I’m looking at 2 kegs to start with, with a dual gauge. So I can have 1 or 2 kegs attached at a time. I will be looking at doing regular carbing ( no force carbonation) and trying to keep it simple. I will be keeping the kegs in a fridge, but for the time I don’t want to drill any holes for taps, co2 would also be in the fridge ( unless it is bad to do)The amount of time doesn’t bother me ( right now I do 12 oz bottles, 5 gal batches)
And now to some questions.....

I’m not sure what size co2 container I should/need to get?
Best way to clean the kegs and lines
Is it worth kegging? I mean right now I actually can limit how much I drink. Sometimes. Is there actually less waste with kegging than botteling?
Can you actually bottle kegged beer without a gun? ( thinking of beer when I go camping)
As stated above, is it better to buy a kit or piece together.
At a guess, what would you say the cost difference is between kegging versus botteling?
( with bottles you have caps and dextron ( sugar), kegs you have co2)..

Think I covered everything, if not, feel free to add anything that I missed. And thanks in adavance

 

[madscientist451]

I got all my kegging equipment used on craigslist, and on the classified here on HBT, except for some new 2.5 gallon kegs and the lines and connectors. I've found used corny kegs for as low as $20. I don't have any holes in the fridge, I just use a cheap picnic tap and about 5' of line. My setup works fine for me, but if you were really pouring a lot of pints, it might not be the best.
Clean the kegs with PBW and then star san.
Sometimes I cheat and just fill the keg up again after a quick rinse and a dose of star san. Kegging is way less work than bottling, but sometimes I do bottle smaller batches so I have some variety.
There are lots of You Tube videos that explain the details of kegging beer.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Hands down start kegging.
Less than 2 minutes to transfer 5 gallons to keg
Drinking "stable" beer within 3 days...no idea why you wouldnt force carb if you have the system
No bottles to clean

I'm a huge fan of using Commercial Sixtels for kegs but that goes against the grain around here
10# tank will last 6 months to a year with 2 kegs and saves money over using a smaller tank..like buying in bulk. It cost me around $20 to fill a 10# tank.

I just do an Oxiclean soak to clean...simple as could be

Use a picnic tap if you dont want to drill holes

Without drilling for faucets and/or tower all you need is a dual reg a tank hose and coupler/poppets...couldnt tell whats cheaper..Price it out

 

[day_trippr]

If you're calculating the cost per pour between bottling and kegging you should probably stick with bottling.
By the time you've paid for kegs, a fridge, faucets and related plumbing end to end it'd take a lot of drinking to amortize the investment.
My kegging decision was based on minimizing effort per pour - a whole 'nuther metric

- Best way to clean lines is pumped recirculation using a caustic like BLC/LLC or similar, followed by lots of fresh water flushing and if desired a no-rinse sanitizer (eg: a standard Star San solution).

- Growler filling is easier than 12 ounce bottles, but both can be accomplished - if not directly from a faucet (or even picnic tap) from a keg.

- I have no experience with pre-kitted kegging solutions, but they seem pricier than what could be cobbled together by the user.

Cheers!

 

[Redpappy]

If you're calculating the cost per pour between bottling and kegging you should probably stick with bottling.
By the time you've paid for kegs, a fridge, faucets and related plumbing end to end it'd take a lot of drinking to amortize the investment.
My kegging decision was based on minimizing effort per pour - a whole 'nuther metric

- Best way to clean lines is pumped recirculation using a caustic like BLC/LLC or similar, followed by lots of fresh water flushing and if desired a no-rinse sanitizer (eg: a standard Star San solution).

- Growler filling is easier than 12 ounce bottles, but both can be accomplished - if not directly from a faucet (or even picnic tap) from a keg.

- I have no experience with pre-kitted kegging solutions, but they seem pricier than what could be cobbled together by the user.

Cheers!

I already got a fridge ( free) so it would be just the keg system. At this time I would prefer no holes drilled, but plan on having typical taps later , if this is the route I go... but as stated before, I’m looking for opinions/ thoughts

 

[Redpappy]

Hands down start kegging.
Less than 2 minutes to transfer 5 gallons to keg
Drinking "stable" beer within 3 days...no idea why you wouldnt force carb if you have the system
No bottles to clean

I'm a huge fan of using Commercial Sixtels for kegs but that goes against the grain around here
10# tank will last 6 months to a year with 2 kegs and saves money over using a smaller tank..like buying in bulk. It cost me around $20 to fill a 10# tank.

I just do an Oxiclean soak to clean...simple as could be

Use a picnic tap if you dont want to drill holes

Without drilling for faucets and/or tower all you need is a dual reg a tank hose and coupler/poppets...couldnt tell whats cheaper..Price it out

Commercial sixteks??? You got me stump there lol.

To answer your question about force carbonation, why would I need to? I mean if I’m reducing from 2 weeks carbonation to a a week, that sounds like a win already.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Commercial sixteks??? You got me stump there lol.

To answer your question about force carbonation, why would I need to? I mean if I’m reducing from 2 weeks carbonation to a a week, that sounds like a win already.

A sixtel is just a small commercial keg that holds 5 gallons. The same thing as every other half barrel youve ever seen only smaller.

Define your meaning of "force carbing"
Using priming sugar in a keg or using the co2 tank?

 

[Redpappy]

A sixtel is just a small commercial keg that holds 5 gallons. The same thing as every other half barrel youve ever seen only smaller.

Define your meaning of "force carbing"
Using priming sugar in a keg or using the co2 tank?

Force carb as in raising up the pressure on the co2, versus setting it at 2.5 ( I think is the norm pressure) for x amount of days.

From what I have read carbing with c02 can take a week versuses 2 weeks with botteling b( ie with just sugar and existing yeAst)

I havnt dealt with kegs very much, so a lot of the lingo is foreign to me. I’ve mainly drank from bottles or cans ( 12 ounces)

 

[bracconiere]

I’m not sure what size co2 container I should/need to get?

Can you actually bottle kegged beer without a gun? ( thinking of beer when I go camping)

Is it worth kegging? I mean right now I actually can limit how much I drink. Sometimes. Is there actually less waste with kegging than botteling?

At a guess, what would you say the cost difference is between kegging versus botteling?
( with bottles you have caps and dextron ( sugar), kegs you have co2)..

Think I covered everything, if not, feel free to add anything that I missed. And thanks in adavance

Statment one: "Your a better man than me! controlling how much you drink"


Answer: this is how i bottle beer for 'travelin"

just keep the stopper tight'ish on the bottle and let it vent slowly....


Answer, i've never really bottled but it costs me 27 bucks to fill a 20lb tank at the welding shop and it lasts me a year. and i drink a lot....

 

[bracconiere]

Force carb as in raising up the pressure on the co2, versus setting it at 2.5 ( I think is the norm pressure) for x amount of days.

From what I have read carbing with c02 can take a week versuses 2 weeks with botteling b( ie with just sugar and existing yeAst)

I havnt dealt with kegs very much, so a lot of the lingo is foreign to me. I’ve mainly drank from bottles or cans ( 12 ounces)

two weeks! you must not have seen 'squatch! the automatic keg shaker! just $89.99!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/this-for-real.657134/#post-8419846

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Ya thats what a lot of people think. Thats how I always looked at it to, and still kinda do...BUT...technically force carbing is anything that uses force to carb a keg. A tank and a regulator. Regardless of the pressure you set your "forcing" the carbonation into the beer.

Priming sugar is a natural process and is NOT force carbing. So unless your using priming sugar in the keg your "force" carbing.

2.5 is the co2 volume not the pressure. The pressure will be set around 12 psi.
First figure out if your kegging then you get to understanding pressure and volume...its real easy. Google "beer co2 volume chart" and youll see the chart everyone uses

 

[mongoose33]

I already got a fridge ( free) so it would be just the keg system. At this time I would prefer no holes drilled, but plan on having typical taps later , if this is the route I go... but as stated before, I’m looking for opinions/ thoughts

When I started this is what my kegging "system" looked like:



Personally, and especially since you already have a fridge, I think it's a great way to start and learn about kegging. Once you have connections and CO2 figured out, it's not terribly hard to move to another level.

I no longer have that "system" in place. That refrigerator now serves as a ferm chamber. And the new "system" looks like this:

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

You say in the OP you have the funds. If you have the room you could just buy a kegerator and be done with it.

 

[Redpappy]

I’ll have roughly $400 to play with, some funds but on a budget. As far as room is concern, I have plenty of space. The wife has agreed to give me the basement. I have looked at the kegerators, but have no interest. Price and limitations, only way to grow is to purchase another one.

Of course that may change, having a single tap on the back deck might be nice to have....in the far future.

 

[mongoose33]

im about 6 months before I have the funds, but I’m doing research now and wanting other people’s thoughts.
I’m not sure what the best approach would be, to piece everything together or to buy a kit from a store. I’m looking at 2 kegs to start with, with a dual gauge. So I can have 1 or 2 kegs attached at a time. I will be looking at doing regular carbing ( no force carbonation) and trying to keep it simple. I will be keeping the kegs in a fridge, but for the time I don’t want to drill any holes for taps, co2 would also be in the fridge ( unless it is bad to do)The amount of time doesn’t bother me ( right now I do 12 oz bottles, 5 gal batches)
And now to some questions.....

I’m not sure what size co2 container I should/need to get?
Best way to clean the kegs and lines
Is it worth kegging? I mean right now I actually can limit how much I drink. Sometimes. Is there actually less waste with kegging than botteling?
Can you actually bottle kegged beer without a gun? ( thinking of beer when I go camping)
As stated above, is it better to buy a kit or piece together.
At a guess, what would you say the cost difference is between kegging versus botteling?
( with bottles you have caps and dextron ( sugar), kegs you have co2)..

Think I covered everything, if not, feel free to add anything that I missed. And thanks in adavance

A few suggestions and observations.

1. I originally bought 1, then a second 5# CO2 tanks. Lucked into a 10# tank later. The larger the tank (you can go 20#), the less the cost per pound of CO2.

But....if you have a leak, there you are, an empty tank, and just when you needed it to serve for guests. My logic for the 5# tanks was to always have a spare full of CO2, and that's worked for me.

You can scour Craigslist for used tanks; since you have time and aren't in a hurry, that could pay off. Only consideration is that tanks have a 5-year expiration after which they must be recertified via pressure test, and buying a used tank out of certification means that cost is going to be added to that. But if you find one cheap enough, it will still be a deal even if it needs to be certified.

Here's an example locally for me: https://madison.craigslist.org/hsh/d/keg-co2-tank-regulator/6730263482.html no pic of the regulator, and no indication of the expiration of the tank, but $135 for a keg, regulator, and a CO2 tank (5# tank it looks like) is a deal, assuming the usual caveats.

Here's another: https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/d/hombrew-equipment/6728179884.html Two kegs, regulator, tank, and a whole bunch of other stuff, $150. If I were closer, I'd be on this in a heartbeat, keep what I want, sell off the rest. For a guy starting out like you, even if the tank needed recertification, it's a steal.

2. Is it worth it? To me, yes. It only took three times of dealing with the dregs in a bottle to know I wanted to keg. I can fill growlers and even bottles from the faucets on my keezer, so I still bottle--but it's much more convenient. And it's nice having beer on tap. Maybe nice isn't the right word. Maybe fabulous is the word...

3. Cost difference? Almost no cost for bottling, and you can pay a LOT for a kegging setup. But if you get a used 7 cu-foot freezer, and you already have a tank and regulator, faucets and shanks will run you $45-75 per faucet. That's for stainless; do not go for the cheapo chrome stuff, you'll wish you hadn't. The cost for a collar for a keezer is dependent on finish; I built my newest one for about $75 IIRC, but I used some high grade materials. Can be done for less.

4. How to bottle? I use a growler filler into chilled bottles and cap on foam. Works very well. You can also get mini-growlers (32 ounce) which I've found work very well too, esp. for taking beer to a party or some such.

5. How to clean? You can do this with a hand pump, and there are posts online about how to do this. But I'd skip right to using a 12-v pump, because you'll wish you had later. You can actually daisy-chain together all the faucets and lines and do them all at once (I do it with five faucets), or do them one at a time. Couple of pics showing how I do this:



I clean my lines every few months, seems to be a decent interval. I use BLC (beer line cleaner), takes about an hour total to do it, but much of that time is spent waiting for the system to recirculate, during which time I do something else.

 

[VTX1300]

My kegerator is sized for a commercial half barrel. It will hold 3 five gallon corny kegs. I have a 2 faucet tower and if I have 3 kegs going I use a picnic tap on the third. That gives me plenty of room for multiple beers on tap. I found mine on Craigslist for $75.

 

[Redpappy]

Certified tanks..... ohh boy... more stuff to look into....do you actually get them certified, or do you just typically test it out yourself to make sure there’s no leaks?

 

[Dland]

If you do not live near a facility that will fill your CO2 tank, then usually a local welding or HVAC supply place will have a keg exchange program, just buy full tank from them, swap the empty for a full, paying only for the gas refill. Probably a little more than owning and filling one tank, but no worries about the 5 year hydro test requirement, and it is the only choice I have without travel anyway.

The certification involves a hydro test tank, I believe they put tank in water, fill to high test pressure, and measure if water volume has changed, indicating tank wall moved at high pressure.

Force carbing kegs is easy, so is spunding. When I did bottle, I used some bottled wort I had set a side to prime, this or sugar is just as easy with kegs as with bottles. But sanitizing bottles and bottling at the volume I brew was adding hours to each brew session, and I doubt I will ever go back to it.

Used C kegs are the least expensive way to get into it. Unless seller has done it recently, I recommend disassembly, thorough sanitation, O ring, seal and poppet replacement. Rebuild kits available at most homebrew supply places.

 

[mongoose33]

Certified tanks..... ohh boy... more stuff to look into....do you actually get them certified, or do you just typically test it out yourself to make sure there’s no leaks?

No, they have to be recertified at a place that fills them. Unless there's a current recertification date stamped on the tank, they will not fill them. There's nothing you can do to sidestep this.

It's one reason for buying new, they should have a recent recertification and give you 4-5 years of use before needed to be recertified. Cost varies all over the country, so impossible to say what it will cost you. I had a 10# tank recertified and refilled in Dubuque about 18 months ago, they charged me something like $38 total. Other places? Who knows?

Some people will simply swap tanks at a place like a LHBS. My LHBS will swap 5# tanks for filled ones for $20. That way you've never particularly worried about recert.

 

[madscientist451]

The place where I get my CO2 doesn't care about the certification date, they just swap out the tank.
I don't remember exact prices but if you can get 20 lb tanks you save enough on the price per pound to eventually pay for the tank.

 

[Redpappy]

As I start my research and watching you tubes, some questions popped up.

First is what should I do with my, I havnt counted, many bottles that I do have ( guessing around 500 bottles) I know I want some but not all...

After mongoose33 suggestions, i started searching craigslist, and nothing.. big bummer... but have searched around and I might be able to build my own system cheaper than being lazy and buying a already built system( which is also what day tripper stated)

As far as my co2 tank, I may start out with 10# tank. I do have a welding shop not to far from me. So the next time I refill my propane tanks I’m going to inquire about the co2.

Since I am just starting out, what specialty tools, packings, lubes, tubing, would I need/should have on hand.

Since I may piece it together myself, any suggestions on what piece I should start with? This is what I want for now, 2 ball lock kegs, dual gauge ( so I can have one on tap and one carbing up.), 10# co2 tank.

Btw, thanks again for all the good info.

Out of curiousity, how many kegs do you have?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

As regards to the 500 bottles. Get a gross of bottle rockets+56 and have an epic firework show....then throw them in the garbage

 

[TechFanMD]

As I start my research and watching you tubes, some questions popped up.

First is what should I do with my, I havnt counted, many bottles that I do have ( guessing around 500 bottles) I know I want some but not all...

After mongoose33 suggestions, i started searching craigslist, and nothing.. big bummer... but have searched around and I might be able to build my own system cheaper than being lazy and buying a already built system( which is also what day tripper stated)

As far as my co2 tank, I may start out with 10# tank. I do have a welding shop not to far from me. So the next time I refill my propane tanks I’m going to inquire about the co2.

Since I am just starting out, what specialty tools, packings, lubes, tubing, would I need/should have on hand.

Since I may piece it together myself, any suggestions on what piece I should start with? This is what I want for now, 2 ball lock kegs, dual gauge ( so I can have one on tap and one carbing up.), 10# co2 tank.

Btw, thanks again for all the good info.

Out of curiousity, how many kegs do you have?

I have been kegging for about 6 months. I'm up to 4 kegs and am always looking for more. In addition to Craigslist, check out Facebook marketplace. I got two of my kegs and two 5# CO2 cylinders via Facebook. The real key with kegs is that you won't find it when you really really want one.....you have to play the long game here to get the best deals, or just pony up the $60 or so to buy used ones at the LHBS or other places.

500 bottles is a lot.....but I'd be sure to keep a bunch around. Kegging is awesome, but not so good for sharing (unless you bottle some out of the keg of course). Also, I love a nice IPA, a cider, or a dry irish stout on keg.....but not so much the Bourbon Barrel Porter. For big, specialty beers that I will drink less frequently, I'll still bottle those. So far since I have been kegging, I've avoided brewing anything that I would want to bottle because kegging is just so damn easy.

I do recommend getting a bunch of orings - you can get kits on Amazon or just buy orings at McMaster or even Home Depot. Get some food grade lube (though I'm not sure how necessary lube is in the end, it is nice to have on hand). Make sure you have the right sockets or wrenches to take the posts off, which can differ slightly between kegs. I recommend buying some extra ball lock quick disconnects (QDs) to have on hand to make jumpers for various cleaning or transferring tasks, for testing kegs, etc. I also like having an extra 5# tank to use to test and clean kegs and tubing in my brew area which is away from my fridge, but this is just a 'nice to have'. I also have a way to connect my compressor just for pressure testing keg seals and moving Star-San around.

 

[schematix]

No, they have to be recertified at a place that fills them. Unless there's a current recertification date stamped on the tank, they will not fill them. There's nothing you can do to sidestep this.

There's always a way. I will say nothing further though.

 

[mongoose33]

As I start my research and watching you tubes, some questions popped up.

First is what should I do with my, I havnt counted, many bottles that I do have ( guessing around 500 bottles) I know I want some but not all...

You could put them on Craigslist for cheap or free...

After mongoose33 suggestions, i started searching craigslist, and nothing.. big bummer... but have searched around and I might be able to build my own system cheaper than being lazy and buying a already built system( which is also what day tripper stated)

What search terms did you use? I've used CO2, Beer, Keg, Kegging, Brewing....

Craigslist is a little like fishing--you need a bite now and then to keep you interested.

Since I am just starting out, what specialty tools, packings, lubes, tubing, would I need/should have on hand.

Depends on what you're going to do. If you're going to start with a keg and a regulator and a picnic tap in a refrigerator, you'll need some keg lube, maybe a few worm clamps, some liquid line and some gas line, a quick-disconnect for the gas, and if you buy the picnic tap ready to go, it's ready to go (includes the QD).

If you're going to be headed to a keezer or similar, you'll want a faucet wrench similar to this, a crescent wrench, a 9/16" wrench for swivel nuts on your lines.

Geez, I have a ton of spare parts, from keg post spare parts to a spare keg lid and all the o-rings and gaskets. Same with the rubber washer for the tailpiece nut and nylon washer for the regulator connection. You'd be probably better off to say "here's what I want to do, what do I need."

Since I may piece it together myself, any suggestions on what piece I should start with? This is what I want for now, 2 ball lock kegs, dual gauge ( so I can have one on tap and one carbing up.), 10# co2 tank.

I think that's a great place to start. Add a picnic tap, and you can keep it in the fridge. You'll learn about the tank, the regulator, the keg....and while doing that you'll have draught beer.

You'll want to think carefully about where you think you might end up. When I made my first keezer, I had 3 faucets/taps. But I allowed for adding two more, made two tiny dimples at where I'd drill for them. And later, when funds allowed, I added them.

Out of curiousity, how many kegs do you have?

Oh, 8 or 9. I have a 5-tap keezer, having extras means I can keep several clean and ready for the next batch. I also keep one full of Star-San, and I push that out using CO2 into the next clean one, and by doing that I purge the keg of air leaving only CO2. I've had as many as 12, but sold off a few to cover other beer-related stuff I wanted to buy.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

First is what should I do with my, I havnt counted, many bottles that I do have ( guessing around 500 bottles) I know I want some but not all. - RECYCLE THEM


As far as my co2 tank, I may start out with 10# tank. I do have a welding shop not to far from me. So the next time I refill my propane tanks I’m going to inquire about the co2. - If trying to be cheap get a large paintball CO2 tank and an adapter they are cheap and don't rule out 5lb CO2 tanks nothing wrong with them either

You can always run through Craigslist for used stuff it is hit or miss this site also has a spot that people sell used gear on the market changes daily

Advice - Don't get a cheap made in CHINA regulator I lost 1 that started to leak and 1 the barb snapped off on me also my Northern Brewer "The Governor" only lasted 2 years then that started to leak too, of all the ones that failed none were brass I have brass now and it's serving me well even survived a hard smash when attached to a full tank

The best thing about kegging is the time savings and it's awesome pouring your own beer from a keg

 

[beernutz]

Lots of good advice so far but I'll add my $.02 fwiw.

I own 9 kegs and have kegged for over 25 years currently using a 4 tap keezer on which I generally have at least 2 taps always running. I am a big fan of bigger tanks as my 20 pound tank has lasted close to 3 years since last refill and I exclusively force carbonate not to mention that it cost me $18 to fill the 20# tank and $10 to fill my 5# tank.

I have a 4 line gas manifold and after a bad line connection cost me a full 20# tank several years ago I now almost always keep the gas off unless force carbonating and only re-gas kegs periodically while I'm watching.

Kegging is great and an easy way to fill a growler or even bottles if you want portability.

 

[Redpappy]

Lots of good advice so far but I'll add my $.02 fwiw.

I own 9 kegs and have kegged for over 25 years currently using a 4 tap keezer on which I generally have at least 2 taps always running. I am a big fan of bigger tanks as my 20 pound tank has lasted close to 3 years since last refill and I exclusively force carbonate not to mention that it cost me $18 to fill the 20# tank and $10 to fill my 5# tank.

I have a 4 line gas manifold and after a bad line connection cost me a full 20# tank several years ago I now almost always keep the gas off unless force carbonating and only re-gas kegs periodically while I'm watching.

Kegging is great and an easy way to fill a growler or even bottles if you want portability.

Do you turn your gas off, when you want to pour a pint, turn gas on, once you pou4 turn back off?


Any and all suggestions are welcome

 

[mongoose33]

Do you turn your gas off, when you want to pour a pint, turn gas on, once you pou4 turn back off?


Any and all suggestions are welcome

No. If the system has no leaks, no need to turn the gas off.

And if the system does have a leak, fix the leak.

 

[beernutz]

Do you turn your gas off, when you want to pour a pint, turn gas on, once you pou4 turn back off?


Any and all suggestions are welcome

No the keg stays pressurized and you can pour many pints before having to turn the gas back on temporarily for a particular keg with the manifold. I see mongoose disagrees but he is perhaps one unexpected leak away from changing his mind.