Dealing with 5 gal batch in 15 gal kettle

[Davor800]

I've done a few AG batches, but I decided it was time to step up my cheap 7.5gal kettle (had a cheap thermometer and a bad ball valve). After reading tons on the forum and hearing over and over that I should just get a 15gal kettle now, I went for it.

I've found a few people posting the same issue with having too little water to even cover the grain in a 15 gal kettle. No one seems to have given a good answer (at least I can't find one).

It takes 2 gal of water just to get to the level of the false bottom. If I am doing a 1.3 quart/lb of grain ratio, I need about 4.0-4.5 gal of water. This will give me only a couple inches over the false bottom, which isn't enough.

I know I'm not the only one doing 5 gal batches in 15gal kettles, so please, let me know how you are dealing with this, or where my math/thinking is faulty.

Thanks.

 

[HollisBT]

How much water does that leave you to sparge with?

Are you pulling double duty as the mash run and boil kettle with this vessel?

 

[iaefebs]

Great question. Never thought about it since I don't use a false bottom. I know that Beersmith allows you to enter "dead space" in a calculation.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I do 5 gallon batches in my 15 gallon kettle. Just mash with the full volume. Boosts effeciency and makes the brew day shorter. I biab but you can probably do the same thing with a braid or a false bottom.

 

[Slainte-brew]

I BIAB 5 gal batches in a 15 gal kettle. I usually end up with around 8-9 gallons in there plus I have my basket. Seems to work well for me

 

[Davor800]

How much water does that leave you to sparge with?

Are you pulling double duty as the mash run and boil kettle with this vessel?

Yes, I am pulling double duty with my kettle. I fly sparge, drain into a bucket, clean the kettle and then pour the wort back in to do my boil. As for the sparge water, I used the calculator on brew365.com, which confirmed that I need about 4.5 gal of sparge water.

I could simply add more water to my mash then use less for sparging, but I'm worried about diluting the mash. It seems a bit silly to sacrifice the process because of the equipment. Maybe a a 10gal kettle would have been better...

Thoughts?

 

[HollisBT]

Yes, I am pulling double duty with my kettle. I fly sparge, drain into a bucket, clean the kettle and then pour the wort back in to do my boil. As for the sparge water, I used the calculator on brew365.com, which confirmed that I need about 4.5 gal of sparge water.

I could simply add more water to my mash then use less for sparging, but I'm worried about diluting the mash. It seems a bit silly to sacrifice the process because of the equipment. Maybe a a 10gal kettle would have been better...

Thoughts?

How much water do you typically need in order to cover the grains? You could simply increase your strike water amount and decrease your sparge water amount, but as you said, that may decrease your efficiency a bit.

Or you could try filling the bottom of your mash tun, below your false bottom, with something that won't absorb water, like clean marbles, to take up space. That might allow you to use less water and still cover your grist.

 

[Davor800]

I appreciate the reply. I think I will attempt to brew with a higher strike volume and see how it goes. If that doesn't work, the marbles are an interesting idea.

 

[winvarin]

Wait one. I have been pondering a similar issue. And this has actually been one of the things that has kept me from pulling the trigger on a morebeer (or any brand for that matter) system.

I'm looking at a 10 gal system for 2 reasons. 1 I would like to occasionally do 10 gal. And 2, I would like the additional mash/boil capacity so I can do 5-8 gallon "big beers"

But my worry has always been " what do I do if I only want to make 5 gal of standard strength beer?"

I like the idea of using all or most of the mash and sparge water. The system I am looking at uses HERMS. So it sounds straightforward. Determine pre-boil volume desired, account for grain absorption, then mash with the total volume. At that point, the water in the HLT is used solely to keep your mash water heated, not for sparging.

But my experience with recirculating mashes is 100% theoretical. I have never had my hands on a system. What kind of efficiency hit would I expect in a set up like that? I can't imagine it would be too bad since you would be recirculating throughout the mash. I batch sparge now. I can't imagine doing a full volume sparge with a recirculating setup would drag my efficiency much lower than it is when I batch sparge in a 10 gal cooler.

 

[HollisBT]

My experience with no sparge brewing, on a non-recirculated mash, yielded 60% efficiency.

And in all honesty, with the amount of grain that is used for a typical 5-10 gallon homebrew you are talking a matter of simply adding a few extra pounds of grain to your grist, just a few extra dollars cost. The only set back comes when you want to try to do a high gravity brew, your efficiency is going to take a nosedive and you might have an issue achieving your target gravity.

 

[Slainte-brew]

I agree you can always just add a few lbs if your efficiency is low. I don't know about recirculating mash, I BIAB. I mash 5 gal batches for 90 minutes and sparge with around 2 gallons. I usually have around 10-12 lb grain bills. I am getting 70 percent minimum efficiency. If I am brewing a 10 gallon batch I can still fit everything in my 15 gallon pot, I just sparge with around 5 gallons. I would rather have a bigger pot, than not have enough room. And I double mill everything because I don't worry about stuck mashes.

 

[Davor800]

Wait one. I have been pondering a similar issue. And this has actually been one of the things that has kept me from pulling the trigger on a morebeer (or any brand for that matter) system.

I'm looking at a 10 gal system for 2 reasons. 1 I would like to occasionally do 10 gal. And 2, I would like the additional mash/boil capacity so I can do 5-8 gallon "big beers"

But my worry has always been " what do I do if I only want to make 5 gal of standard strength beer?"

The Morebeer 15gal mash tun is actually what I bought. Since so many people encouraged getting a large pot for future flexibility, I assumed a 5 gal batch would be not problem.

When I get home my plan is to look at how I might lower the FB below the outlet and use a dip tube.

 

[winvarin]

The Morebeer 15gal mash tun is actually what I bought. Since so many people encouraged getting a large pot for future flexibility, I assumed a 5 gal batch would be not problem.

When I get home my plan is to look at how I might lower the FB below the outlet and use a dip tube.

I have not purchased a system yet, so I can't speak to adjusting the FB height. But when researching their system, I did notice that they sell kettle diverter kits designed to work with various vessels they sell. They are designed to allow you to customize the location of your pick up tube

 

[Davor800]

I am looking at modifying the FB. (Moved my thread to equipment forum)

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/modify-false-bottom-355317/

I would love feedback on this. Anyone see issues?

 

[jfowler1]

I am looking at modifying the FB. (Moved my thread to equipment forum)

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/modify-false-bottom-355317/

I would love feedback on this. Anyone see issues?

I wouldn't bother with screwing around with the false bottom.

I brew 5 gallon batches in a 10 gallon Polarware kettle which has a similar fitting/false bottom set up to the B3 kettle you have. I had the same issues you are dealing with...1) a ton of volume under the false bottom which made mashes too thick and 2) a ton of dead space under the outlet on the kettle that left quality wort behind.

The solution for both starts with a 1/2" stainless steel street elbow. Don't bother with the fancy dip tubes. The Polarware kettle allowed just enough room for me to screw it into the female thread side of the output port. As long as you have a tube coming off of the valve that will allow a siphon when draining, the street 90 will pull almost every last drop off the bottom of the kettle. The street 90 is full port, cheap, and has no moving parts. That special Male X Female fitting that Polarware and B3 use on their kettles is practically begging for a 1/2" street 90.

The second problem you are having is that you are overconcerned with a water:grain ratio, and all of the deadspace under the false bottom is not allowing enough water to properly mash the grains.

I'll give you my system, and you can consider if it will work for you.

Upon receiving my kettle, I filled the tun with water to the point that the water level met the peak of false bottom. Then I measured out 5 gallons of water above the level of the false bottom, and I use a marked measuring stick for repeatability. Every batch, regardless of gravity, gets mashed with 5 gallons of water...I know, weird. I got that tip from Mike McDole on a podcast - he uses 9 gallons of mash water for every batch (but he makes 10 gallon batches). I like 5 gallons because it is an easy measurement to remember, doesn't make low gravity mashes too thin, and doesn't make high gravity batches too thick.

Meanwhile, I heat 8 gallons in my hot liquor tank to be used for my HERMS coil and later for sparge water.

High gravity batches will absorb more water into the grain and will require more sparge water. Lower gravity batches will absorb less water and will require less sparge water. I always collect 8 gallons of wort for a 5 gallon batch. Doing the math, a low gravity beer may only use a couple gallons of sparge water, and a high gravity batch may use a few gallons. I always target 70% efficiency, and I do not want it to be any higher. Once I have 8 gallons of wort in the kettle, I close off the valves, and use of the remaining sparge water for cleaning.

I like this method because it makes water chemistry and the brew process consistent. I know it is a little mindblowing to abandon the water:grain ratio, but I suggest you give it a try.

 

[HollisBT]

I like this method because it makes water chemistry and the brew process consistent. I know it is a little mindblowing to abandon the water:grain ratio, but I suggest you give it a try.

Actually, that method would make the water chemistry and the brew process rather inconsistent...

Wince the water:grist ratio is never consistent, then neither is the fermentability of your wort... While I am sure that you make fine beers and are happy with this process, someone who might want more control over their brews would find it unsuitable.