Cyser Recipe Critique

[rowan57]

Hi All,

Curious about making a Cyser at some point in the not too distant future with the idea of it being drinkable / Giftable next Christmas.

Having done a LOT of searching / reading, I came up with the below for a 5 Gal batch.

4 Gal Cider (Variety TBC, Pink Lady is easiest but may be able to get something more interesting)
10lb Honey (Thinking Italian Chestnut for depth of flavour)
Lalvin K1V-1116 (Not a fan of EC-118) D47 or 71B (Open to opinion, prefer to finish dry).

No heat method.

Your input would be welcome!

Rowan

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Run K1V really low, like 15C-10C. It produces delightful apple-y aromas at those temps, which are actually acetaldehydes that are reminiscent of granny smith apples, they won't hang around forever but might add another layer, also you'll get the cleanest end product by doing so. If they're available, chopped dates without preservatives/sulfites, and raisins also without preservatives/sulfites make a delicious addition. Cyser is a beloved style for me and the people that enjoy my stuff. Spices you can take or leave, I don't find them necessary and if I want them I just mull the cyser with a blend or something. Also consider using pectinase or a similar pectin-breaking enzyme before fermentation in order to achieve a clear product if you so desire, cider has a way of staying cloudy even post-ferment. I've gone so far as to clear mine by fortification with bourbon, but that's not everyone's cup of tea. Cheers and good luck!

 

[WVMJ]

Your in the UK, would it be hard to get your hands on some real cider made with some bitter apples for a much better taste? The proteins in the honey can take a while to drop out in a cyser, fining agents like sparkaloid will take them out if it wont clear up down the road. WVMJ

 

[rowan57]

Run K1V really low, like 15C-10C. It produces delightful apple-y aromas at those temps, which are actually acetaldehydes that are reminiscent of granny smith apples, they won't hang around forever but might add another layer, also you'll get the cleanest end product by doing so. If they're available, chopped dates without preservatives/sulfites, and raisins also without preservatives/sulfites make a delicious addition. Cyser is a beloved style for me and the people that enjoy my stuff. Spices you can take or leave, I don't find them necessary and if I want them I just mull the cyser with a blend or something. Also consider using pectinase or a similar pectin-breaking enzyme before fermentation in order to achieve a clear product if you so desire, cider has a way of staying cloudy even post-ferment. I've gone so far as to clear mine by fortification with bourbon, but that's not everyone's cup of tea. Cheers and good luck!

Excellent advice, thank you! I am looking at temperature controlled fermentation for Beer anyway so this is another good reason! I think if I don't get it started, if I fermented in my unheated utility room over winer that would be cooler than I would typically ferment and might be a good start.

What I haven't managed to get from my mead reading is a sense of the volume of adjuncts to add. When you say Dates & Raisins, how much would you add of each for a 5 gal batch? Like 2lbs?

Yes was going to add Pectinase to clear it up, 1 tsp per gallon? I don't like Bourbon so probably won't add it And not bothered about spicing.

Thanks
Rowan

 

[rowan57]

Your in the UK, would it be hard to get your hands on some real cider made with some bitter apples for a much better taste? The proteins in the honey can take a while to drop out in a cyser, fining agents like sparkaloid will take them out if it wont clear up down the road. WVMJ

Certainly not impossible and I would like to. It would primarily come down to cost, I get access to Pink Lady juice through work for relatively low cost (£5/Gallon) , it is exceptionally high quality, completely natural and the cider I have made from it so far has been good but I would like to do something different. Getting hold of 4 gallons of bitter cider may well be very costly though! There is an Apple festival in a couple of weeks, so this may be a good opportunity.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

You might try to get some crab apples, they will add acid & tannin and are usually easier to get than real cider apples/juice. If you add dates, be sure they're not coated with oat flour; most of the pre-chopped dates here in the US are dusted with oat flour to keep them from sticking together. I've added dates to cyser before & honestly couldn't taste them at all. I'm pretty sure there is very little flavour contribution from dates, but they certainly do add fermentable sugar.

Adding chopped raisins (a pound or 2 / 1 kilo) will also add additional sugar, but they'll also add body. Not sure if dates would add body, but I suspect not. Both will add some color though, a nice, dark, golden/amber color. The chestnut honey sounds like it would be very tasty, I'm not sure what would compliment it without overpowering it. Perhaps in this case less is more.

Two things you really should do is sulfite the must and add yeast nutrient/energizer & DAP. You might use SNA (staggered nutrient additions). I think the K1V yeast is a good choice. I don't use fining agents, simply because I've never needed them, All my meads/ciders/wines/etc... clear just fine on their own, time is really the key.
Regards, GF.

 

[rowan57]

You might try to get some crab apples, they will add acid & tannin and are usually easier to get than real cider apples/juice. If you add dates, be sure they're not coated with oat flour; most of the pre-chopped dates here in the US are dusted with oat flour to keep them from sticking together. I've added dates to cyser before & honestly couldn't taste them at all. I'm pretty sure there is very little flavour contribution from dates, but they certainly do add fermentable sugar.

Adding chopped raisins (a pound or 2 / 1 kilo) will also add additional sugar, but they'll also add body. Not sure if dates would add body, but I suspect not. Both will add some color though, a nice, dark, golden/amber color. The chestnut honey sounds like it would be very tasty, I'm not sure what would compliment it without overpowering it. Perhaps in this case less is more.

Two things you really should do is sulfite the must and add yeast nutrient/energizer & DAP. You might use SNA (staggered nutrient additions). I think the K1V yeast is a good choice. I don't use fining agents, simply because I've never needed them, All my meads/ciders/wines/etc... clear just fine on their own, time is really the key.
Regards, GF.

Thanks GF, very clear! I don't think we can buy pre chopped dates here (I've never seen them ) but I will watch out for the flour addition if I do decide to go down that route.

A little body would be nice, maybe just the raisins would be sufficient, only one way to find out I suppose. I read that the Chestnut Honey has quite a strong flavour, it would be nice to soften that but have it come through in the Mead.

I have been reading about SNA and understand the principal. I can't seem to find DAP but then I have looked too hard just yet.

Crabapples aren't too common here, I am going to an Apple Festival next weekend though so who knows what treats are to come!

 

[FermentedFruit]

I too am going to be starting a 5gallon batch of cyser (cider,honey,dates). Two packs of yeast? I used to have a helper who did the fussy parts and I was just in charge of ingredient procurement and prep but on my own now and I don't remember some of the details.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I can't seem to find DAP but then I have looked too hard just yet.

DAP aka: Diammonium Phosphate. Sometimes sold as "yeast nutrient," is a free nitrogen source for yeast. The "yeast nutrient" I use also has yeast hulls & a few other trace elements. There is also something called "yeast enrgizer," which in my experience can be the yeast nutrient like I use, with added DAP, or sometimes it's just DAP. I really wish there was an established industry standard when it comes to homebrew/winemaking supply terms. Good luck.
Regards, GF.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I too am going to be starting a 5gallon batch of cyser (cider,honey,dates). Two packs of yeast? I used to have a helper who did the fussy parts and I was just in charge of ingredient procurement and prep but on my own now and I don't remember some of the details.

1 5g sachet of dry wine yeast is good for batches up to 5 US gallons. I routinely use them for 6 US gallon batches with no problem. There is no real need for 2 sachets of yeast, but it won't hurt anything either. Just means you're spending more money & will have more sediment in your primary fermentation. I'd just use 1 sachet of yeast.
Regards, GF.

 

[FermentedFruit]

Coolio, thanks

 

[Robusto]

The last Cyser that I made was Fuji apple juice and Tupelo honey. Once it was done it hit it with some bentonite. After it cleared it spent about 6 weeks on some medium toast French oak… Absolutely amazing

 

[rowan57]

DAP aka: Diammonium Phosphate. Sometimes sold as "yeast nutrient," is a free nitrogen source for yeast. The "yeast nutrient" I use also has yeast hulls & a few other trace elements. There is also something called "yeast enrgizer," which in my experience can be the yeast nutrient like I use, with added DAP, or sometimes it's just DAP. I really wish there was an established industry standard when it comes to homebrew/winemaking supply terms. Good luck.

Regards, GF.

Yep I've found it, thank you! I see that my normal nutrient is DAP with ammonium sulphate. I can also get hold of Fermaid K it looks like .


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[rowan57]

Looking at my carboys, they are actually 23L rather than 5 US Gal. So I'm thinking to bump the honey up to 12-13lbs and the juice/cider accordingly, I would like this to ferment out dry to around 14%, does this sound about right?

Thank you for all the help so far, I am reading a lot but the world of mead is a very confusing one!


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[rowan57]

So I heard back from a local ish cider producer. They will let me come down with my containers on a Monday and fill them up for me at £1/L (unpasteurised raw cider from the press) which is essentially 25% cheaper than the juice I can get through work.

They have some really interesting old varieties of apple, I have had a lot of their juices and some are very sharp/dry while some more sweet, but very flavoursome. I won't know what I am getting until I actually arrive, it will depend on what they are pressing. I plan initially to fill one carboy for making actual cider and another for Cyser.

 

[WVMJ]

Very cool, make sure you ask what kinds of apples and tell them you are going to bring them back a bottle when its done so they remember you for next year! WVMJ

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Thank you for all the help so far, I am reading a lot but the world of mead is a very confusing one!


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

You might want to get a copy of this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0937381802/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I've a copy on my bookshelf & still refer to it after all these years. It really is the best book for beginning meadmakers (mazers) & will answer many questions you might not even have thought to ask yet. BTW, the author is a member of this forum.
Regards, GF.

 

[bernardsmith]

Gratus, I guess I don't really understand why you suggest that the OP add K-meta to the must. I don't know if the practice in the UK is different but here in the USA apple juice bought from a commercial source would have been UV pasteurized and honey is for all intents and purposes , bacteria and yeast free. So that step - of eliminating wild yeast - would seem unnecessary. Certainly, your advice makes perfectly good sense if the OP was going to take fressh apples and press them for the cider but if the juice is made for commercial sale .... ? I think it unnecessary. Sanitization of equipment, is of course another story, entirely.

 

[WVMJ]

raw unpasteurized cider straight from the press

Gratus, I guess I don't really understand why you suggest that the OP add K-meta to the must. I don't know if the practice in the UK is different but here in the USA apple juice bought from a commercial source would have been UV pasteurized and honey is for all intents and purposes , bacteria and yeast free. So that step - of eliminating wild yeast - would seem unnecessary. Certainly, your advice makes perfectly good sense if the OP was going to take fressh apples and press them for the cider but if the juice is made for commercial sale .... ? I think it unnecessary. Sanitization of equipment, is of course another story, entirely.

 

[WVMJ]

Another newer more modern book has just come out and its pretty good, a mead maker with a beer brewers perspective and lots of good pictures and more modern takes on SNA etc., also on Amazon. WVMJ


The Complete Guide to Making Mead: The Ingredients, Equipment, Processes, and Recipes for Crafting Honey Wine Paperback – July 30, 2014 by Steve Piatz (Author)

 

[rowan57]

You might want to get a copy of this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0937381802/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I've a copy on my bookshelf & still refer to it after all these years. It really is the best book for beginning meadmakers (mazers) & will answer many questions you might not even have thought to ask yet. BTW, the author is a member of this forum.
Regards, GF.

Thanks GF. I have purchased that book albeit for Kindle, I will buy a hard copy at some point.

 

[rowan57]

Another newer more modern book has just come out and its pretty good, a mead maker with a beer brewers perspective and lots of good pictures and more modern takes on SNA etc., also on Amazon. WVMJ


The Complete Guide to Making Mead: The Ingredients, Equipment, Processes, and Recipes for Crafting Honey Wine Paperback – July 30, 2014 by Steve Piatz (Author)

Thanks Jack, looks worth a read!