Cyser: Bitter, Acrid. What?

[domingo]

Hey all,

I have a cyser that I made with 71B. Started 10/16 at about 1.090, so, not too high. Added DAP during fermentation. It got stuck around 1.020 for a while and then finally got down to < 1.000 range. However, as it got down it turned...bitter. Almost acrid. Honestly doesn't have much flavor besides this bad flavor. I can taste the fermented honey and it's quite dry beneath it, but the overwhelming taste of acrid is so strong...

I know the cider is nice as I've made a lot of hard cider with it. It could be the honey (really a mix of wildflower honeys, about half of it slow heated), but truthfully the honey all came from regular sources so....??

Thoughts? This gonna age out, or?

 

[domingo]

Also, it smells fine. Not too strongly of anything, certainly, but it doesn't smell acrid at all.

 

[Chris_The_Rogue]

Give it a few months to age. I made a cyser with 71B and my friends all hated it right off the bat, said it was like drinking jet fuel / turpentine. A few months later and it mellowed out nicely.

 

[buzzerj]

Agreed give it another few months. Let it work itself out. You can always stabilize it and sweeten prior to bottling. But with two months in, have patience. Otherwise check out the thread on Bray's One Month Mead and try that on your next batch.

 

[IJesusChrist]

cyser and ciders are notoriously bad young (and dry).

 

[skadalajara]

Yeah. My last semi-wild cyser was... interesting, to say the least. Fermented it a little warmer than I like, so there's that.
Aged it for about 5 no after a 6 wk primary and it got drinkable, but it never lost that hotness.
I was trying for more funky/sour, but I guess my local wild yeast are pretty tame.

 

[sheepcat]

What temperature did you ferment at? Some yeasts have a reputation of making jet fuel at above desired temperatures. Wait a few months, crack one open, repeat... it'll get there.

 

[bernardsmith]

Hey all,

I have a cyser that I made with 71B. Started 10/16 at about 1.090, so, not too high. Added DAP during fermentation. It got stuck around 1.020 for a while and then finally got down to < 1.000 range. However, as it got down it turned...bitter. Almost acrid. Honestly doesn't have much flavor besides this bad flavor. I can taste the fermented honey and it's quite dry beneath it, but the overwhelming taste of acrid is so strong...

I know the cider is nice as I've made a lot of hard cider with it. It could be the honey (really a mix of wildflower honeys, about half of it slow heated), but truthfully the honey all came from regular sources so....??

Thoughts? This gonna age out, or?

"Acrid"? Meaning what? Sour? Bitter? Burnt? Have you taken a pH reading? At what temperature was the room when you fermented? And why do you think the cyser stalled at 1.020. How much DAP did you add? When in the fermentation process? What apples were in the juice you used? I wonder if the answers to these questions might pin point a possible answer to your question...

 

[domingo]

What temperature did you ferment at? Some yeasts have a reputation of making jet fuel at above desired temperatures. Wait a few months, crack one open, repeat... it'll get there.

Nah, if anything, I was on the low end. My fermentation room doesn't get above 65.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Hey all,

I have a cyser that I made with 71B. Started 10/16 at about 1.090, so, not too high. Added DAP during fermentation. It got stuck around 1.020 for a while and then finally got down to < 1.000 range. However, as it got down it turned...bitter. Almost acrid. Honestly doesn't have much flavor besides this bad flavor. I can taste the fermented honey and it's quite dry beneath it, but the overwhelming taste of acrid is so strong...

I know the cider is nice as I've made a lot of hard cider with it. It could be the honey (really a mix of wildflower honeys, about half of it slow heated), but truthfully the honey all came from regular sources so....??

Thoughts? This gonna age out, or?

I'm guessing from the bitter flavour you describe & the fact that you used 71-B yeast, which metabolizes some (20-30%) of the malic acid, thus raising PH, that the problem may be mannite. Jack Keller describes it thusly:

"Mannite : A serious disease of wine, characterized by a very bitter taste, caused if a very high proportion of d-mannite (loosely termed mannitic bacteria or mannite) is produced by the action of the lactic acid bacteria on sugars. This can occur when there is too little acidity or when too much heat is generated during malolactic fermentation and the fermentation ceases. This condition only develops readily in wines after alcoholic fermentation has ended, The use of S02 and cooling have practically eliminated this spoilage, which, when severe, renders the wine undrinkable."

Not sure if a wine affected with mannite can be salvaged or not, nor am I positive that's the problem, but it fits. A liitle more research might help.
Hope this helps. Regards, GF

EDIT: Did you use fresh pressed, non-pasteurized juice?

 

[domingo]

I'm guessing from the bitter flavour you describe & the fact that you used 71-B yeast, which metabolizes some (20-30%) of the malic acid, thus raising PH, that the problem may be mannite. Jack Keller describes it thusly:

"Mannite : A serious disease of wine, characterized by a very bitter taste, caused if a very high proportion of d-mannite (loosely termed mannitic bacteria or mannite) is produced by the action of the lactic acid bacteria on sugars. This can occur when there is too little acidity or when too much heat is generated during malolactic fermentation and the fermentation ceases. This condition only develops readily in wines after alcoholic fermentation has ended, The use of S02 and cooling have practically eliminated this spoilage, which, when severe, renders the wine undrinkable."

Not sure if a wine affected with mannite can be salvaged or not, nor am I positive that's the problem, but it fits. A liitle more research might help.
Hope this helps. Regards, GF

EDIT: Did you use fresh pressed, non-pasteurized juice?

I did some research, some of which contradicted this information slightly. Either way, I used fresh, unpasteurized juice with fresh unpasteurized honey. And also sulfites. Additionally, my temp monitor never suggested it never got into really high range. So I'm thinking it isn't mannite.... I'm on the 'wait it out, see what happens' train for now. :rockin:

 

[MindenMan]

Have you attempted to add a little tartaric acid/acid blend to a glass, to see if lowering the pH will improve the flavor?

 

[noblesquirrel]

I'm guessing from the bitter flavour you describe & the fact that you used 71-B yeast, which metabolizes some (20-30%) of the malic acid, thus raising PH, that the problem may be mannite. Jack Keller describes it thusly:

"Mannite : A serious disease of wine, characterized by a very bitter taste, caused if a very high proportion of d-mannite (loosely termed mannitic bacteria or mannite) is produced by the action of the lactic acid bacteria on sugars. This can occur when there is too little acidity or when too much heat is generated during malolactic fermentation and the fermentation ceases. This condition only develops readily in wines after alcoholic fermentation has ended, The use of S02 and cooling have practically eliminated this spoilage, which, when severe, renders the wine undrinkable."

Not sure if a wine affected with mannite can be salvaged or not, nor am I positive that's the problem, but it fits. A liitle more research might help.
Hope this helps. Regards, GF

EDIT: Did you use fresh pressed, non-pasteurized juice?

Mannite won't come from yeast. It's a function ML bacteria.