Culturing lactobacillus from yogurt and probiotic supplements experiment

[sickest_stick]

Hey all,

So I started in on culturing lacto from yogurt and probiotic supplements. The journey began with this excellent article: http://www.notsoprofessionalbeer.com/2013/09/brewing-with-yogurt.html

Set up
3 jars, 400ml, 1030 wort, no nutrient and topped up with a little soda water and covered.
"Pitched," liquid of yogurt plus a little of the actual yogurt (maybe 25ml) to starter. Yogurts used: Fage, Greek, Chobani. (all plain style)

Placed all jars into a warm water bath at 90 degrees for 1 week.

All three created lacto and attenuated (no actual fermentation observed, just gravity) with the Greek attenuating the most. Science-wise, yes, this is sweet, but they all smelled like sauerkraut..pure, sauerkraut. My guess, this is the resultant aroma of Lactic acid, malt and acetic acid. What do you think?

Moving on...

I currently have 2 new jars going. One with one L.Acidophilus pill (containing L.Acidophilus L. Bulgaris and S. Thermophilus) and the other with one Ultimate Flora pill (many Lacto strains). After 48 hours I got lactic in both with the L.Acidophilus (homofermentive...no CO2 or alcohol), and the other has attenuated. Again, sauerkraut.

PS. L. Bulgaris is the well known L.delbrueckii (or L. Delbrucki Bulgaris)


Conclusions:
1) Yes, we can culture lacto in this fashion.
2) Yes, they have at least some attenuative properties (heterofermentive), except for the L.Acidophilus/Bulgaris and Thermophilus all of which are homofermentive.
3) Yes, they all produce Lactic Acid under these conditions.
4) Yes, they all smell like sauerkraut. And herein lies the question...

Question:
Let's talk about this sauerkraut smell.

Will it be scrubbed, eaten or otherwise absorbed into a final product once clean yeast and or brett, etc are introduced to complete fermentation as per normal process??? Sauerkraut beer is not on my brew calendar.

OldSock and Dr. Lambic, thoughts???

 

[burninator]

When you say "sauerkraut smell" are you talking about a vinegar-like smell, or do you mean a smell like lacto-fermented vegetables? If the latter, I'd suggest that because your malt didn't ferment fully, you are smelling the combination of lactic acid and the somewhat vegetal smell of sweet, unhopped wort.

 

[dantheman13]

What is the source for that table?

 

[sickest_stick]

What is the source for that table?

http://www.fao.org/docrep/x0560e/x0560e10.htm

Found more info n the bacteria talking about food than beer.

 

[sickest_stick]

I emailed my question to the author of sourbeerblog.com and he responded with the following:

I too have experienced the sauerkraut aroma you are describing in many of my primary fermentation with Lactobacillus beers. In my experience, this aroma seems to be present in some degree in all warm Lactobacillus cultures before fermentation with Sacc or Brett. I believe that it is a sensory combo between lactic acid, malt sweetness, and diacetyl. In my beers, I've always had this aroma disappear completely or almost entirely after fermentation with Saccharomyces. It has never persisted in any detectable amount after Brett fermentation. I would not fear using yogurt derived cultures that smell like this.

Thanks again for the email and for listening to The Sour Hour."

 

[berebrando]

The contributors at Milk The Funk have been experimenting with alternative sources of bacteria a lot lately. http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alternative_Bacteria_Sources