Crushable NEIPA

[theowlman16]

Okay, I admit, I have fallen in love with their juicy goodness! I like to drink six to ten in an evening, but I'm a father of three who needs to be <finger quotes> responsible. Wanna point me to an all grain recipe that is awesome, but on the session-able side of the spectrum? Thanks!

 

[Marc]

That's a good idea, if you cut the ABV by 25%, that means you can drink 25% more!

 

[beersk]

I almost always make mine sessionable. Around 5%. Maris otter, 10-12% oats, bunch of late hops, dry hops, wyeast 1318 or 1450, keg fresh, drink fresh. Done. Haze in these beers SHOULD NEVER come from yeast. There are so many on the market now that are chunky and f*cking bad. So many brewers, they... they just don't get it.

 

[theowlman16]

I almost always make mine sessionable. Around 5%. Maris otter, 10-12% oats, bunch of late hops, dry hops, wyeast 1318 or 1450, keg fresh, drink fresh. Done. Haze in these beers SHOULD NEVER come from yeast. There are so many on the market now that are chunky and f*cking bad. So many brewers, they... they just don't get it.

Yup. I had one last week that tasted burnt. I like "juicy" from the hops, not from other crap they flavored it with.

 

[ProblemChild]

Simple formula for me on this category

9 lb Maris Otter
2 lb Malted Red Wheat
.5 lb flaked oats
.25 (session) .5 (IPA) .75 (DIPA) lb crystal - carared or lighter (to include carapils)
(to bump up to DIPA, 2 lb Vienna, 1 lb corn sugar)

Mash low

Yeast WY1318 or Imperial A38

Bitter with Simcoe to 50% of target

20 min and 2 min additions with your choice of combination or single - Amarillo, Galaxy, Mosaic, Citra, Idaho 7, Strata, the list goes on....

Hop stand/whirlpool below 170°F with (for DIPA) 4-5 oz, (for IPA) 3-5 oz, (for pale or session) 2-4 oz

Same hops in dryhop, but bump total hop value by 1 oz over hop stand.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Crushable is a silly word.

Gets the point across, though.

 

[theowlman16]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy drinking and analyzing what I brew...I'm kinda looking for something to have in my fridge for the Saturdays that I grab one at noon, and lose count by dinner.

 

[Brewsit]

A saison or gose!

Aaaaaaaand the thread is successfully derailed by the beer police.

 

[Brewsit]

Explain.

You argued that crushable shouldn’t be used to describe Homebrew, for whatever reason... and that a NEIPA is not an appropriate session beer.

 

[ong]

I just do golden promise and 2 lbs flaked oats, and raise or lower the GP to hit my desired OG.

 

[bassmang4]

Call it a NEPA. Problem solved.

 

[GPP33]

I almost always make mine sessionable. Around 5%. Maris otter, 10-12% oats, bunch of late hops, dry hops, wyeast 1318 or 1450, keg fresh, drink fresh. Done. Haze in these beers SHOULD NEVER come from yeast. There are so many on the market now that are chunky and f*cking bad. So many brewers, they... they just don't get it.

Really? I’m not NEIPA conisour but the ones I’ve had (some of which are called “classic”) have all had a ton of yeast sediment. I’ve heard heady topper has lots of yeast too but have never had it. The grain bills I’ve seen add to hazy but not to the level i’ve seen in most NEIPAs. The grain bill you quoted is similar to what I use for an APA that drops dead clear pretty quick.you have twice as much oats which amounts to .5lbs in 12lbs. Will that really make that much of a difference? I guess the massive dry hop addition plays a role too.

 

[TimmyWit]

Really? I’m not NEIPA conisour but the ones I’ve had (some of which are called “classic”) have all had a ton of yeast sediment. I’ve heard heady topper has lots of yeast too but have never had it. The grain bills I’ve seen add to hazy but not to the level i’ve seen in most NEIPAs. The grain bill you quoted is similar to what I use for an APA that drops dead clear pretty quick.you have twice as much oats which amounts to .5lbs in 12lbs. Will that really make that much of a difference? I guess the massive dry hop addition plays a role too.

The best argument I have seen for what creates the haze is the timing of the dry hop. dry hopping during fermentation creates polyphenols that bind to proteins, remain in suspension and create the haze. Yeast in suspension can be partially responsible and I have even heard a theory that hop oils may coat the yeast cells disturbing their ability to flocculate. But, as @beersk mentioned, the idea behind a NEIPA isn't to put a large yeast starter in a glass. The primary source of haze should be due to the process.

I have done a NEIPA without flaked anything and it ended up very hazy. After experimenting with them quite a bit, I'm convinced that the timing of the dry hop is the biggest factor.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I made a session apa in the style of a neipa last month. It’s got crushed at the super bowl party.

64% 2 row/ pale malt
21% flaked oats
12% white wheat
3% acid malt.

10 ibu’s at first wort hop shot
80 ibu’s all at whirlpool. A combo of mosaic and citra. I knocked the temp down to 175 and started the additions. Whirlpooled for an hour.

Burlington ale yeast

Dry hop with el dorado on day 2 and day 6. 5.2% abv.

Tasty hop juice that lets you enjoy several.

 

[ProblemChild]

I made a session apa in the style of a neipa last month. It’s got crushed at the super bowl party.

64% 2 row/ pale malt
21% flaked oats
12% white wheat
3% acid malt.

10 ibu’s at first wort hop shot
80 ibu’s all at whirlpool. A combo of mosaic and citra. I knocked the temp down to 175 and started the additions. Whirlpooled for an hour.

Burlington ale yeast

Dry hop with el dorado on day 2 and day 6. 5.2% abv.

Tasty hop juice that lets you enjoy several.

You packed 80 IBU into a 5.2% ABV at WHIRLPOOL?!? If it was crushed, then clearly yummy. how many ounces of hops was that???

 

[Dcpcooks]

Yeah kinda crazy right, I highly doubt beersmith got it right. We added just under a lb and listed them as steep hops in beersmith.

The lb of hops was for 15 gallons. It got another 12 oz in dry hop.

 

[TimmyWit]

Yeah kinda crazy right, I highly doubt beersmith got it right. We added just under a lb and listed them as steep hops in beersmith.

The lb of hops was for 15 gallons. It got another 12 oz in dry hop.

I’m pretty sure if you put the length you steeped, BeerSmith just figures full isomerization for that time frame. Of course the lower the temp, the less isomerization

 

[ba-brewer]

Yeah kinda crazy right, I highly doubt beersmith got it right. We added just under a lb and listed them as steep hops in beersmith.

The lb of hops was for 15 gallons. It got another 12 oz in dry hop.

I’m pretty sure if you put the length you steeped, BeerSmith just figures full isomerization for that time frame. Of course the lower the temp, the less isomerization

Go to options then bitterness, and you can change the utilization factor for steeping and whirlpooling.

 

[TimmyWit]

Go to options then bitterness, and you can change the utilization factor for steeping and whirlpooling.

Cool, I didn't realize that. I'll check it out. Thanks!

 

[thehaze]

60% Pilsner
20% Vienna
10% Flaked Oats
10% Crystal 10-15L

Enigma, Galaxy and El Dorado

I like to do late additions of hops from the last 15-20 minutes every 3-5 minutes. I do not use flameout hops in boiling wort. Once the boil is over, I quickly cool it down to 140-158F and then I add a large amount of hops. Using my paddle, I create a whirlpool. I let the hops steep for 10 minutes, I come back and I whirlpool with my paddle again. Let it steep for 15 minutes and then transfer to fermenter. You can whirlpool as much as you want, by suspending the hops into solution, so they have more contact. They will eventually settle, so 10-15 minutes would be too much to wait.

 

[beersk]

Call it a NEPA. Problem solved.

This is typically what I call mine, fwifw.

 

[beersk]

Really? I’m not NEIPA conisour but the ones I’ve had (some of which are called “classic”) have all had a ton of yeast sediment. I’ve heard heady topper has lots of yeast too but have never had it. The grain bills I’ve seen add to hazy but not to the level i’ve seen in most NEIPAs. The grain bill you quoted is similar to what I use for an APA that drops dead clear pretty quick.you have twice as much oats which amounts to .5lbs in 12lbs. Will that really make that much of a difference? I guess the massive dry hop addition plays a role too.

Well, the thing is, the haze really shouldn't be yeast related, protein and hop haze only. Trillium is a prime example for me and those beers are never yeasty/chunky. They're pretty much doing it the best in my opinion. And also, I usually will use a pound of oats in a 3 gallon batch. 1/2lb doesn't seem like enough even for 5 gallons. You need a lot. Maybe my percentages I quoted were wrong.

 

[Braufessor]

This is what I use for what you are describing..... it is usually just under or right at 4% ABV. It is super drinkable and in the ball park of NEIPA type beer. You could probably use this recipe as is, or tweak it a bit to get what you want. You could pull back on the wheat aspect of it if you wanted and sub in more 2 row .... or, maybe sub in some munich for a bit more malt backbone,

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/hoppy-session-wheat-beer.644047/

 

[Dextersmom]

always wondered about the mashing low vs higher. Got a brew coming up where I'm going to mash relatively high for a shorter amount of time for a full body and limit attenuation to a certain extent (158ish for 45 min). Why? because I want my lighter session and lower abv to drink like a fuller bodied DIPA. Additionally adding more CaCl2 to the mix. I think the lower mash temps result in a thinner drier beer and what I perceive from most NEIPA interpretations that I enjoy is fuller body with a slightly sweet backbone. eg. I prefer Equilbrium's take on NEIPA to Trillium.

 

[beersk]

The best argument I have seen for what creates the haze is the timing of the dry hop. dry hopping during fermentation creates polyphenols that bind to proteins, remain in suspension and create the haze. Yeast in suspension can be partially responsible and I have even heard a theory that hop oils may coat the yeast cells disturbing their ability to flocculate. But, as @beersk mentioned, the idea behind a NEIPA isn't to put a large yeast starter in a glass. The primary source of haze should be due to the process.

I have done a NEIPA without flaked anything and it ended up very hazy. After experimenting with them quite a bit, I'm convinced that the timing of the dry hop is the biggest factor.

I just saw this post... timing of the dry hop is an interesting theory. I'll have to do some research on this myself for future batches.

 

[TimmyWit]

I just saw this post... timing of the dry hop is an interesting theory. I'll have to do some research on this myself for future batches.

If you think about it, that's the biggest difference process-wise between this and a WCIPA. I can't take credit from coming up with that theory myself. Scoff Janish makes a pretty convincing argument for it.

"When polymerized (oxidized) polyphenols react with proteins, the bindings between protein and polyphenols are irreversible, resulting in a permanent haze....Dry hopping early during active fermentation may result in more haze, potentially because polyphenols are reacting to a greater concentration of proteins while fermentation is in the early stages."

http://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/

 

[Mer-man]

Oxidised polyphenols, you say.