crossing fingers for no contamination!!

[jrc64]

OK, so yesterday was my first attempt at all grain brewing. Seemed ok except for a few things. Mash called for 3.5 gallons of water for the 10.75 lbs of grain. 1st running only collected 2.25 gallons! I do not know if this is normal, but seemed real low to me. Heated up another 2 gallons to 170 and let that sit for around 15 minutes. collected that and finally heated another 2 gallons to 180 and did the same thing. When all was collected I was at around 6.5 gallons pre-boil. Here's where thing get a bit crazy. After the boil I had around 4.75 gallons. This was a pumpkin beer so there alot of pumpkin in there that made it rough going through the strainer when transferring to fermenter. I actually washed my hands, dipped them in star san and tried rubbing the mesh screen to allows the beer through. Eventually said the heck with it and just poured it all in unfiltered. It only filled up to around 4.75. I knew I would lose around .5 to .75 gallons to the trub at the bottom, so I sanitized a plastic container ad added .75 gallons of tap water to bring it to 5 gallons.

Now, I've been loose with extract brewing and never got a contaminated batch, so I'm hoping I'm going to be OK with this.

A few questions for all grain pros out there. Why did I only get a bit over 2 gallons from first runnings? Did I go about it the right way to collect the additional wort? Any problems touching the beer with "star san hands"? Was I OK topping to 5 gallons with tap water?

Thank you in advance!

 

[IslandLizard]

Your grain absorbs and adsorbs a lot of your initial mash water. Once it is thoroughly wet, it won't anymore. That's why you need to mash in with enough water to get decent first runnings. After draining, whatever volume of sparge water you add should come back out.

Use a mash calculator like Brewer's Friends' or Brew365.

Typically a water to grain ratio of 1.25-1.50 is a good start for mashing. This does not include the water volume the grain absorbs.

 

[mikescooling]

The grain soaks up some water. IMHO, if you pitched a good starter and let the yeast rip through their food, other competitive microbes won't have time to colonise. Tap water has microbes in it most of them are not pathogens, but may not taste as good as the yeast eating the sugar. Generally, try not to stick your hands in the pre-ferment cold side stage of the brewing process. I do think your beer will turn out fine.

 

[ballsy]

I dunk sparge w/ BIAB technique so no help there, but I top off with tap water on every batch and never had an infection. Sure you'll be fine. Did you hit the OG out of curiosity?

 

[jrc64]

I dunk sparge w/ BIAB technique so no help there, but I top off with tap water on every batch and never had an infection. Sure you'll be fine. Did you hit the OG out of curiosity?

OG called for 1.058, I was at 1.06

 

[jrc64]

Your grain absorbs and adsorbs a lot of your initial mash water. Once it is thoroughly wet, it won't anymore. That's why you need to mash in with enough water to get decent first runnings. After draining, whatever volume of sparge water you add should come back out.

Use a mash calculator like Brewer's Friends' or Brew365.

Typically a water to grain ratio of 1.25-1.50 is a good start for mashing. This does not include the water volume the grain absorbs.

I'm assuming that quarts per pound of grain? How many gallons do you usually get for a 5 gallon batch from your first runnings?

 

[LLBeanJ]

I actually washed my hands, dipped them in star san and tried rubbing the mesh screen to allows the beer through.

I also brewed a pumpkin beer yesterday and had the same issue and employed the same technique (that is, used my hands to help clear the clogged strainer). I can also say that it wasn't the first time. Actually, I've done it many times and have never had an issue. Also, I've never washed my hands beforehand, just dunked them in a bucket of Starson. No worries, it'll be fine.

 

[IslandLizard]

The "art" of AG brewing is to collect enough wort from your mash tun that, when boiled down for the hour to 2 hours your recipe calls for, it yields your predicted volume of wort at its target OG. Then there's no top up water needed.

Using one of the mash calculators I mentioned should get you there, at least in the ballpark. You learn your system and its efficiency and make small tweaks to optimize.

One of the most important parameters to get all your gravity points out of your grains is having a good crush. Whole kernels or very coarsely milled grain will tank your mash efficiency.

Unless you do BIAB, batch sparging is the easiest and typically 2 sparges at equal volume will give you good extraction. Once the first running have been collected, add your first volume of sparge water and stir well. Let sit for a few minutes (literally, 2-5 minutes is enough), vorlauf and lauter. Repeat. You should now have your pre-boil volume at your pre-boil gravity. If not, find out why it comes up short and apply the changes to your next brew.

Pumpkin...
Pumpkin is tricky, as you just found out, it is a gooey highly absorbent mass. Since most of it is already in your fermentor, let it ride. When fermentation is done, cold crash for a few days and siphon off the clear beer from the top, careful not to disturb the loose trub on the bottom, then bottle or keg. Secondary not needed.

If you want to retrieve some or all of the beer that's hidden in the trub, you can dump the trub into a large and fine hop or paint strainer bag resting in a large funnel with a collection vessel underneath. A gallon mayonnaise or pickle jar is perfect. You may need 2 of those. Cover the funnel with the bag inside with a piece of foil or plastic wrap and let her drip out. A slight or good squeeze can help to speed the process. You may need to stick a spoon under the bag to allow the liquid to drain properly from the funnel. You should avoid splashing and aerating your beer as much as possible, so a short piece of hose on the funnel down to the bottom of your collection vessel will help to prevent that.

Now you have 1-2 gallons of recovered beer that may have some fine pumpkin fiber and definitely has yeast in it. Let the jars, with a lid on them, sit in the fridge to settle out. Clear beer should form on the top. That can be poured or siphoned off and bottled separately. Do NOT mix this with the main batch, there is a chance infection may have crept in from all the handling. So keep that in mind as to possible bottle bombs etc.

It should go without saying that utter sanitation practices are mandatory during this whole process.

Next time mash the pumpkin!

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm assuming that quarts per pound of grain? How many gallons do you usually get for a 5 gallon batch from your first runnings?

Yes, sorry, quarts per pound of grain.
I use 1.33 (sometimes 1.50) as I like the looser mash. Easier to stir and it's a bit easier to keep the mash temp with the slightly higher volume. I get 2-2.5 gallons of first runnings, but it largely depends on the amount of grain in the bill and the volume of the batch (typically 5.5 gals).

I then sparge twice with 2.5-3.0 gallons each, splitting the total required sparge volume evenly. In some rare cases (high gravity brews) I've collected 3rd runnings and made either (low gravity) starter wort or a small beer from it. I don't think 3rd runnings taste as good as earlier ones, pretty bland, even when boiled down.

On 365, pay attention to your "equipment loss" entry as that is the amount of wort left in the mash tun after draining it (usually called mash tun deadspace). I use a slotted cpvc manifold and my bulkhead is in a recessed area of the bottom, so my deadspace is close to 0. I set it at 0.1 for all practical purposes. Depending on your tun, tipping it at the end of the lauter may yield that extra volume.

Everyone's system is unique and needs to be "tuned." For example, I find I need to strike 4°F higher than calculated to end up at my target mash temp. I lose those 4°F when mashing in since the lid is off all that time. When done stirring, I cover my mash with a double layer of aluminum foil, right on top of the grains, and close the lid. After 5 minutes I lift the lid ever so slightly and check the mash temp by poking my thermometer probe through the foil in a few places. I'm usually spot on. Before that I was hunting for half an hour to correct the undershoot, knowing that most mashes are almost done by then.

 

[jrc64]

The "art" of AG brewing is to collect enough wort from your mash tun that, when boiled down for the hour to 2 hours your recipe calls for, it yields your predicted volume of wort at its target OG. Then there's no top up water needed.

Using one of the mash calculators I mentioned should get you there, at least in the ballpark. You learn your system and its efficiency and make small tweaks to optimize.

One of the most important parameters to get all your gravity points out of your grains is having a good crush. Whole kernels or very coarsely milled grain will tank your mash efficiency.

Unless you do BIAB, batch sparging is the easiest and typically 2 sparges at equal volume will give you good extraction. Once the first running have been collected, add your first volume of sparge water and stir well. Let sit for a few minutes (literally, 2-5 minutes is enough), vorlauf and lauter. Repeat. You should now have your pre-boil volume at your pre-boil gravity. If not, find out why it comes up short and apply the changes to your next brew.

Pumpkin...
Pumpkin is tricky, as you just found out, it is a gooey highly absorbent mass. Since most of it is already in your fermentor, let it ride. When fermentation is done, cold crash for a few days and siphon off the clear beer from the top, careful not to disturb the loose trub on the bottom, then bottle or keg. Secondary not needed.

If you want to retrieve some or all of the beer that's hidden in the trub, you can dump the trub into a large and fine hop or paint strainer bag resting in a large funnel with a collection vessel underneath. A gallon mayonnaise or pickle jar is perfect. You may need 2 of those. Cover the funnel with the bag inside with a piece of foil or plastic wrap and let her drip out. A slight or good squeeze can help to speed the process. You may need to stick a spoon under the bag to allow the liquid to drain properly from the funnel. You should avoid splashing and aerating your beer as much as possible, so a short piece of hose on the funnel down to the bottom of your collection vessel will help to prevent that.

Now you have 1-2 gallons of recovered beer that may have some fine pumpkin fiber and definitely has yeast in it. Let the jars, with a lid on them, sit in the fridge to settle out. Clear beer should form on the top. That can be poured or siphoned off and bottled separately. Do NOT mix this with the main batch, there is a chance infection may have crept in from all the handling. So keep that in mind as to possible bottle bombs etc.

It should go without saying that utter sanitation practices are mandatory during this whole process.

Next time mash the pumpkin!

Thanks for the great advice. I will definitely attempt to recover some beer from the trub. I choose to go with pumpkin in the kettle as I heard nightmares about it clogging the mash.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the great advice. I will definitely attempt to recover some beer from the trub. I choose to go with pumpkin in the kettle as I heard nightmares about it clogging the mash.

Use 8-16oz of rice hulls! Still a slow lauter, but it won't plug up. You got to deal with the pumpkin sludge sooner or later, your choice. In the mash some starches may be converted to sugars, which is a bonus.

Some breweries add the pumpkin to the boil, in voile bags. Next time I may split the pumpkin between mash and secondary, then strain out the pulp as I described above. Or... extract the pumpkin juice from the canned pulp and add that to the secondary.

 

[LLBeanJ]

You got to deal with the pumpkin sludge sooner or later, your choice. In the mash some starches may be converted to sugars, which is a bonus.

I mashed my first pumpkin brew and to my surprise found that it provided no contribution to OG and even with BIAB, the lauter was a nightmare. Now I just boil it to get the flavor. During my brew yesterday, I contemplated skipping the strainer, but decided to go ahead and use it. Next time, I'll just dump the entire mess into the fermenter and be done with it. As it stands now, I'm planning on an extended cold crash before I transfer from primary to the keg.